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skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 7:25pm
I don’t understand what you’re arguing Curly
BM was adamant Bennel is a no go. Regularly making comments about his off field indiscretions and personal life. On the other hand he takes pot shots at the club for taking McCartin instead of DeGoey.
Seems very much a case of double standards and just taking another swipe at the club.
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 7:25pm
I don’t understand what you’re arguing Curly
BM was adamant Bennel is a no go. Regularly making comments about his off field indiscretions and personal life. On the other hand he takes pot shots at the club for taking McCartin instead of DeGoey.
Seems very much a case of double standards and just taking another swipe at the club.
Yeah... he said in hindsight DeGoey was the better player. Very clearly. I think you’re a bit confused.
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 7:25pm
I don’t understand what you’re arguing Curly
BM was adamant Bennel is a no go. Regularly making comments about his off field indiscretions and personal life. On the other hand he takes pot shots at the club for taking McCartin instead of DeGoey.
Seems very much a case of double standards and just taking another swipe at the club.
Yeah... he said in hindsight DeGoey was the better player. Very clearly. I think you’re a bit confused.
So pick one on DeGoey with his issues but a late pick on Bennel is ridiculous???? Doesn’t make sence
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 7:25pm
I don’t understand what you’re arguing Curly
BM was adamant Bennel is a no go. Regularly making comments about his off field indiscretions and personal life. On the other hand he takes pot shots at the club for taking McCartin instead of DeGoey.
Seems very much a case of double standards and just taking another swipe at the club.
Yeah... he said in hindsight DeGoey was the better player. Very clearly. I think you’re a bit confused.
So pick one on DeGoey with his issues but a late pick on Bennel is ridiculous???? Doesn’t make sence
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 7:25pm
I don’t understand what you’re arguing Curly
BM was adamant Bennel is a no go. Regularly making comments about his off field indiscretions and personal life. On the other hand he takes pot shots at the club for taking McCartin instead of DeGoey.
Seems very much a case of double standards and just taking another swipe at the club.
Yeah... he said in hindsight DeGoey was the better player. Very clearly. I think you’re a bit confused.
So pick one on DeGoey with his issues but a late pick on Bennel is ridiculous???? Doesn’t make sence
But no one is saying that. What are you reading?
Who is the better player DeGoey or McCartin?
Your late to the party mate just relax. His pot shots are tiresome.
skeptic wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 7:25pm
I don’t understand what you’re arguing Curly
BM was adamant Bennel is a no go. Regularly making comments about his off field indiscretions and personal life. On the other hand he takes pot shots at the club for taking McCartin instead of DeGoey.
Seems very much a case of double standards and just taking another swipe at the club.
If I could go back to the 2014 draft, I would do as 17 other clubs would, in a heartbeat select DeGoey.
DeGoey vs Bennell
For off field indiscretions it’s a no contest. Bennell had a massive rap sheet at the GC, and they offloaded a number 2 pick for bugger all, suggesting how bad he was, he was the worst in a bad culture. To add to that, he’s been worse at Freo. He has a drinking problem, a behaviour problem and massive injury concerns.
Put it this way
Bennell has been delisted and Melbourne MAY take a punt on him, we put a line straight through him.
If DeGoey was on the open market, he would demand two High end first round draft picks to get him.
DeGoey has had two major off field indiscretions, one when he was 19 and lied to the club. And a drink driving charge.
His problems are more like a young Stevie Johnson or Dustin Martin. Bennell is not a immaturity problem, it’s not a substance issue, it’s a CHARACTER issue.
You’d be surprised at a few successful saints who were no angels while playing footy, whether it be drinking, or other issues
A.Jones, H.Black, F.Gehrig, P.Everitt, S.Fisher, J.Gram, S.Baker amongst others didn’t always do the right thing.
Anyways
I know you like to try your hardest to prove me wrong or have a go at me Curly... but on this occasion you’re either drunk or being antagonistic
No, I wouldn’t befriend someone with an attitude like he has, and how do I know his attitude is poor? I can read and it’s pretty well known. He is the worse offender of off field indiscretions by the length of the Flemington straight.
BM you run down the club for taking McCartin. When others raise points of McCartins good character and team ethics you dismiss it. Bennel has been raised as a speculative late pick up you dismiss that due to poor character. You then say Petracca was a obvious ick one yet his character is questionable then in hindsight you say DeGoey and his wrap sheet and reputation in football is horrendous.
So what is it? Can StKilda take a punt with a late pick on a perceived bad boy or not?
His footy could be better, but he’s never caused any issues for Melbourne??
Now, let me address your points.
No the club should not add a bad character to the list!... with any pick! A bad character will always be a bad character, and are likely to effect other players (Andrew Lovett and Steve Lawrence are examples of bad character) also team mates will not like, trust or respect them. Or want them a part of the club, as they don’t have the right values.
A young kid with immaturity problems, they can be led, mentored.
An ok guy with a few issues (drinking etc) yep, they can be Supported... those issues can be resolved
Question
Are they dedicated and focussed on being the best player they can be, or are they taking the piss and trying to get by on talent?
As for taking McCartin because he’s a good character?
I’d prefer they took the kid with the most talent, regardless of anything.
Kids can grow and develop, footy wise, character wise, maturity wise as long as they have good people around them
One of our greatest ever players went to HPSC and was one of the worst kids to teach, loads of talent, zero discipline. He met Lenny Hayes and Grant Thomas and never looked back.
An adult, in their mid twenties, with a history of not wanting to change, even after being given chances... is far less likely to change.
Why do you think Brisbane delisted Fev with a year to go on a massive contract, and NO one picked him up at 29? He was a cancer!
Secret Kiel wrote: ↑Mon 04 Nov 2019 9:17pm
clearly double standards
Spot on.
De Goey and Cousins seem to be forgiven for their sins. Cousins a full blown drug addict but apparently a mistake in not recruiting him. At Richmond he did three hamstrings, punched a teammate, wound up in hospital (twice?) and Wallace said he KNEW he was still using when he recruited him...
Does being a drug addict make one a bad character?
How did a bad character Captain an AFL club for 5 years?
Is it possible for a drug addict to stop using, either for periods of time or for good?
Was Ben Cousins a bad person when not under the influence of drugs?
Did Ben Cousins use drugs when at Richmond?
Was the bloke Daniel Conners (who Richmond sacked!) a bad character? And deserved to be punched in the mouth? There wasn’t even a sanction for it!
Did BC fail a drug test at Richmond, since he got tested every week for two years?
Ben Cousins was/is a substance abbuser, and had/has real problems under the influence of Meth. When not on drugs and focussed on footy he was a leader, who led by example at training and in games.
Two last questions
Was BC a failure at Richmond?
Who was the better footballer, BC or HB?
(Would you like me to list their CVs?)
For the record, I would have drafted Cousins and would consider Bennell with a late pick. With players that have this type of questionable or checkered history however, it’s really a case by case process and I certainly wouldn’t begrudge BM for preferring one as opposed to the other.
The Cousins to Bennell scenarios are not apples to apples. Cousins was an established elite onfield champion that played an elite standard of football over many years. His reputation off-field was well known but his attitude and standards to training/preparation and his work rate were always beyond question.
There was no doubt in my opinion that he would have been and was a great on-field addition for Richmond and a disruptive one off-field.
Bennell offers a similar off-field risk with a lot less assurance that he will succeed onfield. He’s not as good, hasn’t had sustained major onfield performance and has longer term injury concerns without the documented professional attitude to training/prep.
BM it seems like you are splitting hairs to save face by compartmentalising character to defend your double standards. If you take your argument to its logical conclusion then what you are saying is provided you can get selected for your football qualities, your character is irrelevant or acceptable only if you deliver on the football field. It seems you are contradicting yourself. Personally I tend to agree with septic and that character shouldn't really come into it if you can deliver. Equally as you argue BC could turn on and off the different sides of his character to perform and deliver on the football field, surely the same courtesy is afforded of all people in life including Benell.
Character is what a person is like, what his values and ethics are... Drug addiction does not just happen to bad characters, it happens.
BC attitude towards being an elite footballer was never in question, he was a talent who got everything out of himself. His attitude towards others was equally impressive, he was a leader and had an infectious personality and he was well liked.
Unfortunately he was addicted to a recreational drug as tens of thousands of others are, and it occasionally sent him off the rails.
Remember who his best mate was, when they started dabbling in recreational drugs... and he ended up at StK and was very impressive from the moment he was recruited. Once your an addict, you are never completely safe from the drug, but you can learn to control the addiction. BC was drug testEd almost a hundred times at Richmond and never failed a test.
After 6 months out of the system he was a train wreck again. Drugs ruined his life, but was he a bad character outside of his drug use? Everyone who had anything to do with BC in footy speaks highly of his application, determination and willingness to support his teammates.
Bennell, like Andrew Lovett is not well received or respected and has some major character flaws. Jesse Hogan also has some serious question marks.
Character is what a person is like, what his values and ethics are... Drug addiction does not just happen to bad characters, it happens.
BC attitude towards being an elite footballer was never in question, he was a talent who got everything out of himself. His attitude towards others was equally impressive, he was a leader and had an infectious personality and he was well liked.
Unfortunately he was addicted to a recreational drug as tens of thousands of others are, and it occasionally sent him off the rails.
Remember who his best mate was, when they started dabbling in recreational drugs... and he ended up at StK and was very impressive from the moment he was recruited. Once your an addict, you are never completely safe from the drug, but you can learn to control the addiction. BC was drug testEd almost a hundred times at Richmond and never failed a test.
After 6 months out of the system he was a train wreck again. Drugs ruined his life, but was he a bad character outside of his drug use? Everyone who had anything to do with BC in footy speaks highly of his application, determination and willingness to support his teammates.
Bennell, like Andrew Lovett is not well received or respected and has some major character flaws. Jesse Hogan also has some serious question marks.
I would think his former partner who Ben has repeatedly stalked would say he was a very bad character.
I think the club did the right thing by not recruiting Cousins in 2009.
He was injury-prone for starters. He would have kept someone out which may have also held back the development of players like Montagna who really came into his own that season.
I think I may have read in Dave Mission’s ”The Bubble” that Lyon used the decision not to recruit Cousins to motivate the players. It seemed to work for most of the season given we won 19 straight.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
Character is what a person is like, what his values and ethics are... Drug addiction does not just happen to bad characters, it happens.
BC attitude towards being an elite footballer was never in question, he was a talent who got everything out of himself. His attitude towards others was equally impressive, he was a leader and had an infectious personality and he was well liked.
Unfortunately he was addicted to a recreational drug as tens of thousands of others are, and it occasionally sent him off the rails.
Remember who his best mate was, when they started dabbling in recreational drugs... and he ended up at StK and was very impressive from the moment he was recruited. Once your an addict, you are never completely safe from the drug, but you can learn to control the addiction. BC was drug testEd almost a hundred times at Richmond and never failed a test.
After 6 months out of the system he was a train wreck again. Drugs ruined his life, but was he a bad character outside of his drug use? Everyone who had anything to do with BC in footy speaks highly of his application, determination and willingness to support his teammates.
Bennell, like Andrew Lovett is not well received or respected and has some major character flaws. Jesse Hogan also has some serious question marks.
I would think his former partner who Ben has repeatedly stalked would say he was a very bad character.
Summed up very simply.
It makes you question what more Ben could do for this poster.
SaintPav wrote: ↑Tue 05 Nov 2019 7:22pm
I think the club did the right thing by not recruiting Cousins in 2009.
He was injury-prone for starters. He would have kept someone out which may have also held back the development of players like Montagna who really came into his own that season.
I think I may have read in Dave Mission’s ”The Bubble” that Lyon used the decision not to recruit Cousins to motivate the players. It seemed to work for most of the season given we won 19 straight.
Exactly.
People confuse his form at WCE with Richmond but in reality they were nothing alike.
