Let's Be Honest

[barks4eva]

It’s been a long 3 years of Richo propaganda

It was a very long six years of Richo buffoonery.

[B.M]

Do you think at any stage since 2014 have we had a finals list?

Seriously

And given injuries in a couple of years, we were definitely up against it.

Good lists make good coaches.
Clarkson had a great list for a period and won, had an average list with a few injuries and they performed poorly
Including being outplayed (or if performance is so reliant on coaching - outcoached) by us last season.

It’s pretty simple
The best teams in the AFL have the best players.
You don’t win a flag with a s*** list and you dont get a spoon with a good one.

We have had how many AAs since 2015?

[SaintPav]

Letting Bruce go was just dumb dumb dumb.

[barks4eva]

Richardson's parting gift was to deny Jack Steven leaving last year when St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft pick as compensation.

Then seemingly in spite Jack Steven makes himself fat, grows his hair long, makes himself look like a homeless person, hardly plays a game and then leaves one year later.

St.kilda then receive pick 58 and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to play with Geelong.

Thanks Richo.

Just another total f up in six long years of total f ups.

I think it's surprising more players have not come out with mental health issues having to listen to that buffoon drone on for six long years.

[freely]

One thing I’m not looking forward to...

If we’re not instantly great ppl will bag Ratten and lament the decision to move Richo on as being an overreaction or the fault of the list.

Then if Melbourne return to their 2018 form it will be because of Richo too.

Will be a long year of pro-Richo propaganda

Don't need to be pro-richo to be anti-ratten.

[Yorkeys]

Markedly better position now than 12 months ago. A lot of loose ends fixed. Plan in place. Good coach, clear air. A lot of weight out of the saddle bags. Of course there is no guarantee of improvement but we wil all be very disappointed if there isn't and we have a right to be cautiously optimistic.

[ace]

Let's cheat but not so much that getting caught hurts too much.

[Harves Man]

If Battle, Wilkie, Roberton, and Howard are all playing then a fit Carlisle would be an excellent replacement for Bruce. When fully fit, Carlisle is a much better player than Bruce so perhaps our forward's aren't in such bad shape after all?

Completely agree, but just can't see Carlisle being used a lot in the forward line (although would love to see him at least tried there for a while.

[Harves Man]

If Battle, Wilkie, Roberton, and Howard are all playing then a fit Carlisle would be an excellent replacement for Bruce. When fully fit, Carlisle is a much better player than Bruce so perhaps our forward's aren't in such bad shape after all?

I think the plan is to have Marshall/Ryder replace Bruce and protect King. The aim of the forward line reshuffle MUST be protect King and get Members on the 3rd defender, not the second. Those writing off Ryder's forward craft in the past few years obviously haven't watched him play.

N Reiwoldt had a great second year, after not playing the first... largely due to Gehrig and Hamill taking heat off of him. Let's hope the same of M King.

Love the optimism of this post - exciting times ahead!

[B.M]

Nick Riewoldt playeda fair bit at CHB in his second year

[SaintPav]

Richardson's parting gift was to deny Jack Steven leaving last year when St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft pick as compensation.

Then seemingly in spite Jack Steven makes himself fat, grows his hair long, makes himself look like a homeless person, hardly plays a game and then leaves one year later.

St.kilda then receive pick 58 and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to play with Geelong.

Thanks Richo.

Just another total f up in six long years of total f ups.

I think it's surprising more players have not come out with mental health issues having to listen to that buffoon drone on for six long years.

So you didn’t think he was a good coach then?

[bigcarl]

Richardson's parting gift was to deny Jack Steven leaving last year when St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft pick as compensation.

Then seemingly in spite Jack Steven makes himself fat, grows his hair long, makes himself look like a homeless person, hardly plays a game and then leaves one year later.

St.kilda then receive pick 58 and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to play with Geelong.

Thanks Richo.

Just another total f up in six long years of total f ups.

I think it's surprising more players have not come out with mental health issues having to listen to that buffoon drone on for six long years.

Are you saying he feigned mental illness? I think not. A marriage breakdown will knock you around a bit. I agree re Richo, though. Decent man, but we’re well rid of him.

[barks4eva]

Richardson's parting gift was to deny Jack Steven leaving last year when St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft pick as compensation.

Then seemingly in spite Jack Steven makes himself fat, grows his hair long, makes himself look like a homeless person, hardly plays a game and then leaves one year later.

St.kilda then receive pick 58 and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to play with Geelong.

Thanks Richo.

Just another total f up in six long years of total f ups.

I think it's surprising more players have not come out with mental health issues having to listen to that buffoon drone on for six long years.

Are you saying he feigned mental illness? I think not. A marriage breakdown will knock you around a bit. I agree re Richo, though. Decent man, but we’re well rid of him.

No

I've got no comment on whether or not he is or was suffering from a mental illness.

Mentally ill people can act out in spite!

It looked to me though Steven was pissed off he was forced to stay on for another year by Richardson.

I was hoping he would be let go as he did not want to stay and his value at that time equated to a first round draft pick.

Richardson for his own selfish reasons refused to let him go and the rest is history.

Pick 58 and paying Geelong hundred of thousands of dollars for Steven to now play at Geelong.

How St.kilda agreed to pay even one cent of his salary, let alone hundreds of thousands of dollars to Geelong is an absolute disgrace.

Perhaps it relates to a heavily back ended contract.

Either way, had he been allowed to leave a year earlier, St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft selection as compensation.

Another fine mess created by Richardson and the incompetence of those who appointed him to begin with.

I thought from day one Richardson was an awful selection.

[Secret Kiel]

Richardson's parting gift was to deny Jack Steven leaving last year when St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft pick as compensation.

Then seemingly in spite Jack Steven makes himself fat, grows his hair long, makes himself look like a homeless person, hardly plays a game and then leaves one year later.

St.kilda then receive pick 58 and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to play with Geelong.

Thanks Richo.

Just another total f up in six long years of total f ups.

I think it's surprising more players have not come out with mental health issues having to listen to that buffoon drone on for six long years.

Are you saying he feigned mental illness? I think not. A marriage breakdown will knock you around a bit. I agree re Richo, though. Decent man, but we’re well rid of him.

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career and that opinion is by no means meant to be any disrespect to Jack as he was one of our best players through one of our longer tenancies at the bottom of the ladder.

[barks4eva]

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career

What absolute bollocks

[Secret Kiel]

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career

What absolute bollocks

good point, well argued. May I counter your well articulated point and ask which midfielder would he have pushed out in any of the premiership teams in the years he won his B&Fs.

[barks4eva]

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career

What absolute bollocks

good point, well argued. May I counter your well articulated point and ask which midfielder would he have pushed out in any of the premiership teams in the years he won his B&Fs.

Jack Steven was worth a first round draft selection to any premiership team in any year he won his four B&F awards.

If Jack Steven had of played for Hawthorn instead of lowly St.kilda during his career he would IMO now be regarded as elite.

Your opinion on this matter is absolute garbage IMO.

[Secret Kiel]

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career

What absolute bollocks

good point, well argued. May I counter your well articulated point and ask which midfielder would he have pushed out in any of the premiership teams in the years he won his B&Fs.

Jack Steven was worth a first round draft selection to any premiership team in any year he won his four B&F awards.

If Jack Steven had of played for Hawthorn instead of lowly St.kilda during his career he would IMO now be regarded as elite.

Your opinion on this matter is absolute garbage IMO.

Ok so now I understand your logic, sure if you believe Jack sits (or could have) sat in the same exalted company as Mitchel, Hodge, Lewis and Smith, then sure, he's worth a first round DP.

[Secret Kiel]

Just looked up the trades for Sam Mitchell, Jordan Lewi and Luke Hodge:

at 30 years of age Jordan joined the Dees in a package deal with Picks 57 and 68, with the Hawks receiving Picks 48 and 66 in return.

at 34 years of age Sam Mitchell went to West Coast for Picks 52, 70 and 88

At age 33 Luke Hodge was traded to Lions for pick 75

[barks4eva]

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career

What absolute bollocks

good point, well argued. May I counter your well articulated point and ask which midfielder would he have pushed out in any of the premiership teams in the years he won his B&Fs.

Jack Steven was worth a first round draft selection to any premiership team in any year he won his four B&F awards.

If Jack Steven had of played for Hawthorn instead of lowly St.kilda during his career he would IMO now be regarded as elite.

Your opinion on this matter is absolute garbage IMO.

Ok so now I understand your logic, sure if you believe Jack sits (or could have) sat in the same exalted company as Mitchel, Hodge, Lewis and Smith, then sure, he's worth a first round DP.

If Jordan Lewis or Isaac Smith played their entire careers at St.kilda would either have won four best and fairest awards ?

I think not.

Would Jordan Lewis be held in the same light as he is now if he'd started playing at St.kilda at the very same time as when Jack Steven started playing in the seniors at St.kilda ?

I think not.

I understand your illogical, laterally challenged, one dimensional, linear view and IMO it's absolute bollocks.

[Life Long Saint]

If Jordan Lewis or Isaac Smith played their entire careers at St.kilda would either have won four best and fairest awards ?

I think not.

Would Jordan Lewis be held in the same light as he is now if he'd started playing at St.kilda at the very same time as when Jack Steven started playing in the seniors at St.kilda ?

I think not.

I understand your illogical, laterally challenged, one dimensional, linear view and IMO it's absolute bollocks.

Lewis would have comfortably won B&F's at St Kilda. He managed to win one in a Hawthorn team that included Roughead, Franklin, Mitchell, and Hodge.
He managed to win an AA in the same year.

He'd have been the best midfielder we had once Dal and Lenny left.
We might have even snagged a flag in 2009 or 2010 with him in the team.

All academic, though, we never got the chance to draft him...We snapped up McQualter with our first pick in his draft year. Lewis went pick 7.
Jack Steven went pick 42 in 2007. Great player for us but had his flaws.

[saintbob]

Richardson's parting gift was to deny Jack Steven leaving last year when St.kilda would most likely have received a first round draft pick as compensation.

Then seemingly in spite Jack Steven makes himself fat, grows his hair long, makes himself look like a homeless person, hardly plays a game and then leaves one year later.

St.kilda then receive pick 58 and pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for him to play with Geelong.

Thanks Richo.

Just another total f up in six long years of total f ups.

I think it's surprising more players have not come out with mental health issues having to listen to that buffoon drone on for six long years.

Are you saying he feigned mental illness? I think not. A marriage breakdown will knock you around a bit. I agree re Richo, though. Decent man, but we’re well rid of him.

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career and that opinion is by no means meant to be any disrespect to Jack as he was one of our best players through one of our longer tenancies at the bottom of the ladder.

I agree Jack was never considered elite or A grade, he was one of our best through that period but only a B+ at best.

[Secret Kiel]

Jack was good but he was never worth a first round d.p. at any stage of his career

What absolute bollocks

good point, well argued. May I counter your well articulated point and ask which midfielder would he have pushed out in any of the premiership teams in the years he won his B&Fs.

Jack Steven was worth a first round draft selection to any premiership team in any year he won his four B&F awards.

If Jack Steven had of played for Hawthorn instead of lowly St.kilda during his career he would IMO now be regarded as elite.

Your opinion on this matter is absolute garbage IMO.

Ok so now I understand your logic, sure if you believe Jack sits (or could have) sat in the same exalted company as Mitchel, Hodge, Lewis and Smith, then sure, he's worth a first round DP.

If Jordan Lewis or Isaac Smith played their entire careers at St.kilda would either have won four best and fairest awards ?

I think not.

Would Jordan Lewis be held in the same light as he is now if he'd started playing at St.kilda at the very same time as when Jack Steven started playing in the seniors at St.kilda ?

I think not.

I understand your illogical, laterally challenged, one dimensional, linear view and IMO it's absolute bollocks.

ok starting to get a little too lateral and multi dimensional for me to follow.

[barks4eva]

If Jordan Lewis or Isaac Smith played their entire careers at St.kilda would either have won four best and fairest awards ?

I think not.

Would Jordan Lewis be held in the same light as he is now if he'd started playing at St.kilda at the very same time as when Jack Steven started playing in the seniors at St.kilda ?

I think not.

I understand your illogical, laterally challenged, one dimensional, linear view and IMO it's absolute bollocks.

Lewis would have comfortably won B&F's at St Kilda. He managed to win one in a Hawthorn team that included Roughead, Franklin, Mitchell, and Hodge.
He managed to win an AA in the same year.

He'd have been the best midfielder we had once Dal and Lenny left.
We might have even snagged a flag in 2009 or 2010 with him in the team.

All academic, though, we never got the chance to draft him...We snapped up McQualter with our first pick in his draft year. Lewis went pick 7.
Jack Steven went pick 42 in 2007. Great player for us but had his flaws.

Hypothetical question
Would Jordan Lewis be held in the same light if he'd started playing senior football at St.kilda at the very same time Jack Steven started ?

If Lewis played the bulk of his career at St.kilda under Watters and Richardson would he be rated as highly as he is now having played with superstars at Hawthorn under Clarkson ?

[The_Dud]

I agree Jack was never elite and was overrated by a lot of St Kilda people. Best player in a poor team, would go missing often if the opposition put a little work into him. Never AA.

Might have done better in a better team if he could have been the number 3 mid instead of 1.

Definitely has screwed us over this year (and next $$$), no sympathy from me.