Jack Newnes

[B.M]

Can we have a wager that Geary will be selected in R1 (if fit)?

[saintspremiers]

Geary I would keep on the List for 2020 - but for the same reason I assume we have kept Brown for

For 2020, in terms of number of games played, who are our experience so 200 game players?

Simply, we have none

We need a winning culture at the Club - and this includes at Sandringham where the experience of Brown and Geary will assist

It is far easier to play well in a winning side - and that goes to our development side in the VFL as well

In terms of AFL I am of the very optimistic view that in Clark and Coffield we saw our “medium sized” defenders of the future - then, again optimistic add Roberton who is class plus then Battle as intercept and Carlisle and Howard (on what my disgruntled PA mates tell me noting their view of Austin who I trust has added kg’s to his skill set. Mind you they are outraged that Keith Thomas, from the traditional rival is in the position he is in so all fault with Keith. I laugh and respond in the affirmative which promotes further outrage. You just have to love those supporting the side past the cemetery!!)

So no AFL spot for Geary unless injury

In footy when you get or are delivered the ball you just have to be able to use it to advantage by precision and depth including run and carry if you are a “medium sized” player

Plus you build good sides from defence

Let’s assume Gears is captain again in 2020 - realistically who else is going to be captain if it’s not him?

He can’t then be out of our regular 22 can he?

Unless they make Ross captain - he’s the only other viable option - Dunstan and Billings don’t seem at the captaincy point quite yet.

[B.M]

Geary would be regarded as one of the best small defenders in the AFL. Not sure how he doesn’t get a game?

Ridiculous thinking!

[Jacks Back]

You can't have a captain of Geary's calibre if, realistically, he isn't in the best 22 some weeks. You have to be able to drop any player that is not performing otherwise how are you going to improve as a team?

[To the top]

I do not doubt Geary’s effort and commitment both on field and off field - and his courage can not be questioned

But, to be frank, this description applies to every player on an AFL List

If you do not “go” when it is your turn you are found out under the glare that is focussed on players putting your career at the level under question, at least

From there we get to skills, skills which include both defensive and offensive impacts

So when you win the contested ball or are fed a free ball you use it with precision to the advantage of team - and you have the ability to gain ground both by carrying the ball including in support and you can kick and handball accurately over good distance, to create advantage given team patterns as coached

There are aspects of Geary’s game which trouble me

As Captain he demands the ball - including frequently after the opposition registers a behind, left free in a back pocket by the opposition and I conclude because the opposition want to see the free ball in Geary’s hands - then comes the turn over

Geary also defends space resulting in him contesting overhead against size in contests then leaving us exposed at ground level - followed by hand waving

So that gives you some idea of the reasoning behind me excluding Geary apart from depth

With the development of Coffield and Clark we have the options - and options with class

They were Drafted as back flankers

Then there is Roberton and Wilkie

Battle, who is class, as intercept and Carlisle and Howard as KPP’s

I do not buy “lock down small defender”

If you are going to improve to the required level such role players are impeding that improvement - because they have restrictions hence their description as “lock down small defender” or “defensive small forward”

Captaincy?

I view that there is a log jam with more than one of Steele, Ross and/or Dunstan in the centre square because where us the “burst” factor - so all blue collar?

Acres bought another dimension - but unfortunately he is now at Fremantle

We have added Hill and Jones - but on the paint not in the centre square where the game starts

Captaincy?

Good question

I have reservations re Ross despite his impressive CV - and where I point to 24 goals in 122 games (look at Martin, Dangerfield and others able to hit the scoreboard)

The absence of a stand out candidate is an indictment on the Richardson regime - and his steady as she goes conservatism and performing a role

So we need to take a punt

If Roberton comes up?

Or go young, which is the romance of sport hence a Battle

The powers which be will know the voices - so the options

Those who not only drive but lead by example including as match winners

[WellardSaint]

TTT has said it the best.
Uncomfortable for some, but I fully agree with all his points.
Geary is not the solution to our captaincy question, for all the reasons he espoused.

[freely]

It's impossible to nominate a captain without knowing what the team is trying to stand for. What are our values? What is saints footy 2020?

[B.M]

Don’t buy into a lock down defender?

Do we let Charlie Cameron run riot do we?

If he were to play on Savage, Clarke, Coffield, Paton etc... he would tear them a new arsehole!

You must disarm the opposing threats

Which generally are

#1 key forward... eg Hawkins
#1 small forward... eg Betts
#1 Mid... eg Cripps
#1 running back... eg Johannison

Can’t just let match winners go head to head... unless their opponent is of an equal threat (even that is dangerous and rarely happens)

Brown, Geary, Steele are critical to our set up

[B.M]

BTW

Seb Ross will most likely be captain in 2020

If not

Jarryn Geary will be

Likely to have a small leadership group

[Special]

It's impossible to nominate a captain without knowing what the team is trying to stand for. What are our values? What is saints footy 2020?

It’s a serious attempt at playing finals in 2020 IMO.

Everything should be moving in that direction and that’s the sole aim.

The peanut gallery is inpatient and we need some finals action ASAP. 8 years without finals is beyond a joke IMO

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Would have struggled for a game in the new look squad so best for all parties.

[ace]

Many on here calling him a spud. Maybe. He has played 150 odd games - some decent ones in there somewhere, and yes should have spent more time at Sandy.
Now we replace him with what? - another clubs spud or our 3rd pick in the draft which is what - pick 100 odd?
For me , I would have kept him , played him at Sandy and maybe he regains some confidence and becomes good enough to force his way back in.
If we had 3 pics in the top 30 of the draft , then yes delist. Just can’t see us replacing him with anyone who will be an improvement.

$$$$$ man. Third rounder not going to come in and demand the same coin he was on. Don't forget there was a contract for him to sign for a long time and he turned his nose up at it. Good riddance.

He saw the writing on the wall behind that contract.
It read Hill, Jones, Billings playing wing & Newnes playing at Sandringham.

[Saintmatt]

I do not doubt Geary’s effort and commitment both on field and off field - and his courage can not be questioned

But, to be frank, this description applies to every player on an AFL List

If you do not “go” when it is your turn you are found out under the glare that is focussed on players putting your career at the level under question, at least

From there we get to skills, skills which include both defensive and offensive impacts

So when you win the contested ball or are fed a free ball you use it with precision to the advantage of team - and you have the ability to gain ground both by carrying the ball including in support and you can kick and handball accurately over good distance, to create advantage given team patterns as coached

There are aspects of Geary’s game which trouble me

As Captain he demands the ball - including frequently after the opposition registers a behind, left free in a back pocket by the opposition and I conclude because the opposition want to see the free ball in Geary’s hands - then comes the turn over

Geary also defends space resulting in him contesting overhead against size in contests then leaving us exposed at ground level - followed by hand waving

So that gives you some idea of the reasoning behind me excluding Geary apart from depth

With the development of Coffield and Clark we have the options - and options with class

They were Drafted as back flankers

Then there is Roberton and Wilkie

Battle, who is class, as intercept and Carlisle and Howard as KPP’s

I do not buy “lock down small defender”

If you are going to improve to the required level such role players are impeding that improvement - because they have restrictions hence their description as “lock down small defender” or “defensive small forward”

Captaincy?

I view that there is a log jam with more than one of Steele, Ross and/or Dunstan in the centre square because where us the “burst” factor - so all blue collar?

Acres bought another dimension - but unfortunately he is now at Fremantle

We have added Hill and Jones - but on the paint not in the centre square where the game starts

Captaincy?

Good question

I have reservations re Ross despite his impressive CV - and where I point to 24 goals in 122 games (look at Martin, Dangerfield and others able to hit the scoreboard)

The absence of a stand out candidate is an indictment on the Richardson regime - and his steady as she goes conservatism and performing a role

So we need to take a punt

If Roberton comes up?

Or go young, which is the romance of sport hence a Battle

The powers which be will know the voices - so the options

Those who not only drive but lead by example including as match winners

Couldn’t agree more. Although the direct Geary replacement is Patton. And he was superb last season

[desertsaint]

by the trades it looks as if we're genuinely going for finals, but i can't see it. certainly not on the back of our new players. We have a shot if the likes of Carlisle, Roberton, and Hannebury recapture past form, along with a burst of improvement by Clark and Coffield, Roma and Battle have even better years, and King turns out a beauty. Then we need the likes of Gresham and Membrey to step up further, and Dunstan or Ross to up their passing game. Given that we need to turn a corner, bringing in new support players is a nice shot of refreshment (and Hill is very welcome), so you could argue it's the right time to appoint a new captain. But no one of enough experience is standing up bar perhaps Ross, who doesn't seem a good long term prospect in the role. Doesn't seem a captain able to help dictate play and encourage others. I agree if Roberton were to come back to his best, and health concerns were forgotten, he'd be a good candidate, but i'm pessimistic that he'll do so.
So Geary for me next year.

[B.M]

Hasn’t Ross won 2 x B&Fs?

And led the club Brownlow voting a few times
In fact he’s polled 10, 14, 6, 12 in the last 4 years.

This misnomer that Seb doesn’t impact is utter rubbish

[Shaggy]

I do not doubt Geary’s effort and commitment both on field and off field - and his courage can not be questioned

But, to be frank, this description applies to every player on an AFL List

........

The powers which be will know the voices - so the options

Those who not only drive but lead by example including as match winners

That is where your view is different from the club.

Most people see Geary is elite in terms of courage. He goes beyond normal. You appear not to rate courage but clearly the club and players do which is why Geary is captain.

In terms of match winners we do not really have any. Billings won us the game against the Dogs many years ago. Stuv always lifted when games were on. Neither are natural leaders. Hopefully Clark will be. In the meantime Geary is the most respected until some-one exceptional steps up and can wins us games.

[To the top]

I would put that Geary is a factor of Richardson

And the voting for Geary as Captain was a factor of Richardson’s descriptions of Geary and known opinions of Geary

Richardson was terminated by the Board

The distancing from the Richardson model needs to be total if the Club is to realise its potential and make a mark on the competition

If we had such class defenders in Geary, Brown, Webster et al why was our percentage where it has been over recent years?

Surely we would have been capitalising on having such Star defenders, rebounding and creating scoring opportunities, winning games and having a percentage over 100, not in the 70’s

Our percentage is the damming statistic

That just has to be addressed - and by changing personnel from those who have led to that circumstance over recent seasons

We now have the likes of Coffield and Clark, hopefully Roberton then the evolving Battle, the recovered Carlisle and the recruited Howard (with Austin and others in reserve)

[thefatdork]

I don’t agree completely with you TTT - our poor poor percentage was also the product of crap kicking for goal and inability to convert forward 50 entries into goals. The bomb into the forward line was probably the worst tactic in this respect - we didn’t have the cattle to work this successfully and it was so easy for other teams to defend.
The backline then had to deal with the ball being rebounded quickly with the opposition scoring as a result.
Hopefully we’ll see some improvement in our ability to score.
Go Saints!
TFD

[Saintmatt]

I don’t agree completely with you TTT - our poor poor percentage was also the product of crap kicking for goal and inability to convert forward 50 entries into goals. The bomb into the forward line was probably the worst tactic in this respect - we didn’t have the cattle to work this successfully and it was so easy for other teams to defend.
The backline then had to deal with the ball being rebounded quickly with the opposition scoring as a result.
Hopefully we’ll see some improvement in our ability to score.
Go Saints!
TFD

100000000000%. The defence was never really the problem. A back line of Scarlett, Dench, Southby, Silvagni etc wouldn't have helped one iota. And it wasn't so much our inability to convert opportunities - it's always been about midfield. It's a midfielder's game and outside of Jack Steven's best output ... our recent group is comfortably the worst group in the modern era of the AFL. Comfortably. They rarely got first hands and then when they did - hoisted it high to outnumbered forwards. It then got swept away at speed to opposition forwards who had isolation and/or separation -and boom - opposition scores.

That said - I want a new Captain to hopefully, bring in a new era.

[B.M]

Jarryn Geary has been outstanding as a small defender for years, maybe ask some small forwards about how effective he is?!

[To the top]

The commentary on the defence and the transition from defence was solely in context of the description of Geary as elite and the support for the likes of Brown, Webster, Savage et al

Some on here lament the loss of Bruce and others laud the likes of Membrey, Lonie et al

Yes, apart from Steven we have lacked a line breaking mid the problem aided and abetted by the use of Acres in my opinion and the combination of Steele, Ross and Dunstan in preference.

Some on here laud Ross, which, on his CV at St Kilda, a lower order Club, is understandable because his CV is what it is.

And Steele is lauded by some, as was Longer.

So with so many the subject of positive commentary and support how come are Win/Loss record has been where it has been over years now - and our percentage similarly mired among the worst in the competition?

As one answer, I look at the goals per game contributed on average by Ross, Steele and Dunstan, compared even to Steven and Armitage but then to the likes of Martin and Dangerfield and others (remember Jarman?) who can go forward and deliver the result.

So there are multiple causes - and multiple reasons

Including injury

So no area of performance escapes the microscope - because these players lauded by some have been the key players with the win/loss ratio and the percentage, year after year so post Lyon with the sides he could put on the park

The future is the skills of Billings, I would like to say Acres, Gresham, Battle, Coffield, Clark, Marshall, Membrey the returning Roberton, an injury free Carlisle.

The recruitment of Hannebery and now Hill plus the description of Howard and foot soldiers such as Jones and Butler (both Premiership players) and a competent (former AA in 2017) Ruckman with good experience in Ryder

And that King and Bytel get on the park and perform to a level plus Long impacts over and above glimpses.

From there we get back to Ross, Steele and Dunstan where, I repeat, we have limitations in regards Centre square and general ground coverage and the word "dynamic", at least in my view.

Ross has 22 goals in 124 games - and has the CV he has at St Kilda, which to me represents "PROBLEM"

Plus the development of Long who to me has class.

And add Wilkie, a competent performer, to get to 22.

See who is left out?

It is time to move on.

[B.M]

2018 aside... which was a shocking year after key retirements and with injury (even 2019 was injury ravaged!)

The side hasn’t been that lowly. Haven’t played finals, but won 11, 11 & 9 in three of the past 4 seasons I think. So far from a hopeless team when Ross and Geary were high in the B&Fs

Seb Ross has had to carry a midfield (with Jack) for years, with little support. Given the amount of wins, to poll 40+ Brownlow votes in 4 seasons suggests not only is he decent at StK but is decent in games of footy, even considering the opposition.

Dunstan is limited, because he’s slow has no tank and is a poor kick.

Seb recorded
The third highest top speed of any player this season.
The furtherest distance covered in a game

To go with his stats which are very good.

Geary
Courage, toughness, endurance, experience and defensive capability

[Premium89]

It's official - Newnes Finally at the Blues

[Premium89]

"I am really excited, it has been a bit of a whirlwind the last couple of months, but I’m glad the decision has been made," Newnes told carltonfc.com.au.

"I think there are a lot of young players here and I’ve got a lot of experience so hopefully I’ll be sharing a bit of knowledge about what it takes.

"I’ve got a lot of improvement in my game personally. I haven’t yet reached the highest level I can, so I am really excited to push myself and push the group as well."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-11-01/ ... free-agent

[Saintmatt]

"I am really excited, it has been a bit of a whirlwind the last couple of months, but I’m glad the decision has been made," Newnes told carltonfc.com.au.

"I think there are a lot of young players here and I’ve got a lot of experience so hopefully I’ll be sharing a bit of knowledge about what it takes.

"I’ve got a lot of improvement in my game personally. I haven’t yet reached the highest level I can, so I am really excited to push myself and push the group as well."

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-11-01/ ... free-agent

"I look forward to sharing my in depth knowledge of how to go completely under the radar when sticking 1 tackle in the first 7 rounds of 2020 ... at the Northern Blues" said Newnes