Jack Newnes

[skeptic]

IMO the poison chalice challenge for coaches is how they manage the line btw selecting players that deserve to be in the top 22 on form and those that are selected for other reasons.

There are plenty of reasons why a player that isn’t top22 could be selected to get a game. The obvious ones are
- young player getting experience/development
- the fill a particular need/role
- rewarding good VFL form or attitude/work rate

Etc etc

The problem becomes that at some point this needs to either translate into good form or going back to grant those opportunities to someone else. If a player is continuously selected desire mediocre form, the inevitable destination is that fans get frustrated with both the player and the coach.

Much like the situation with Weller in 2017 or whenever.

And it’s what happened to Newnes.

The argument that course of 150 games we had no one that could have overtaken him during his really bad patches of form defies belief. What was the stat earlier in the year... he went 15 games without laying a tackle or something like that. Ridiculous.

In the one game he played forward, White looked alright
Plenty of ppl were calling for Acres to spend more time in the middle
Coffield and Clarke started the season very slowly but pbly couldn’t have done worse then what Newnes did
Many wanted to see Langlands and Paton play more

On and on it goes.

In my opinion, Newnes was in the team for 2 reasons... one was that he demonstrated reasonable potential early on and you could hope he got better with more experience.
Two - being fit for 150 odd games on its own is no mean fete... it demonstrates very good preparation and attitude. I have no doubt, he exemplified many of the traits Richo valued and that’s a good thing

But...

At some point, that’s simply not enough anymore. You need form.

Lonie is a good example of a player that earned his opportunities and bounced back from being dropped having worked on his deficiencies.
Newnes was the opposite.

[Secret Kiel]

All fair points skeptic, the good news is we now are getting more options for the midfield, quality options too obviously although I think we are still 2 midfield players short, one of those needs to be A grade which may still yet come from our home grown, most flag teams have 3 to 4 a graders/elite midfielders and then 3 to for other players who can rotate through the middle as either mid defenders, or forward mids. We just need a little more depth, it will come is coming and unfortunately it doesn't look like Newnes is going to be part of it, if by chance the Blues don't pick up and he stays on the list then I hope the kick in the pants helps him get back to his 2016 form because he would make a good depth player in our midfield.

[Sanctorum]

In a way I hope that Jack Newnes signs the 2 year deal offered by the Saints because the club has now ruled a line on the past and are going into 2020 with a totally new set up, both on and off the field.

I have immense faith in Brett Ratten's capacity to get the best out of all of the players, and it is highly likely that he did not want Newnes to be delisted at the end of the season and was offered a new contract - as far as I am aware, reports that Newnes was advised to look elsewhere did not emanate from the club. At his best, and he certainly played some really good footy at the start of this year, he rates at B+.

It is possible that he, like a number of other players, lost form after round 5 as a result of poor coaching (different game plans etc), in any event, if Newnes stays and recovers his best form his experience alone will be very useful.

[saintspremiers]

In a way I hope that Jack Newnes signs the 2 year deal offered by the Saints because the club has now ruled a line on the past and are going into 2020 with a totally new set up, both on and off the field.

I have immense faith in Brett Ratten's capacity to get the best out of all of the players, and it is highly likely that he did not want Newnes to be delisted at the end of the season and was offered a new contract - as far as I am aware, reports that Newnes was advised to look elsewhere did not emanate from the club. At his best, and he certainly played some really good footy at the start of this year, he rates at B+.

It is possible that he, like a number of other players, lost form after round 5 as a result of poor coaching (different game plans etc), in any event, if Newnes stays and recovers his best form his experience alone will be very useful.

Newnes is a spud and always has been. Delist.

We’ve still got WAY too many iffy players on the list even after 9 have been delisted/retired/traded out.

[Secret Kiel]

In a way I hope that Jack Newnes signs the 2 year deal offered by the Saints because the club has now ruled a line on the past and are going into 2020 with a totally new set up, both on and off the field.

I have immense faith in Brett Ratten's capacity to get the best out of all of the players, and it is highly likely that he did not want Newnes to be delisted at the end of the season and was offered a new contract - as far as I am aware, reports that Newnes was advised to look elsewhere did not emanate from the club. At his best, and he certainly played some really good footy at the start of this year, he rates at B+.

It is possible that he, like a number of other players, lost form after round 5 as a result of poor coaching (different game plans etc), in any event, if Newnes stays and recovers his best form his experience alone will be very useful.

Hypothetically, if Jack stays on and secures a spot in the seniors and is playing really well, why will that be? will it be a change in coach? will it be the new players especially the addition of the A graders who might have freed up Newnes, who will get the credit.

[SMS]

Surely we took offer off the table after landing hill and jones.

Id pick hill jones hind sinclair clark coffield savage before newnes.

[SaintPav]

Should be in a position where he is considered to captain the team but he’s not.

He really has fallen away the last few years.

I blame Richo. Way too slow to act.

[Linton Lodger]

Newnes has been used very much as a utility and all over the place in the last couple of years. He is a half back flanker and when he plays there, we get solid good footy. Alas, we also have an abundance of half back flankers.

It would have been good to secure a trade for him or a free agency pick. Unfortunately, Carlton were (like other Clubs) petty tight asses in Trade period. First they don't budge on Jack Martin, offering a second rounder, now thy're trying to get him for nothing through the draft. It appears they want to employ the same strategy with Newnes.

[ace]

Newnes has been used very much as a utility and all over the place in the last couple of years. He is a half back flanker and when he plays there, we get solid good footy. Alas, we also have an abundance of half back flankers.

It would have been good to secure a trade for him or a free agency pick. Unfortunately, Carlton were (like other Clubs) petty tight asses in Trade period. First they don't budge on Jack Martin, offering a second rounder, now thy're trying to get him for nothing through the draft. It appears they want to employ the same strategy with Newnes.

He has proven that as an uncontracted player he has no trade value.
If another club had wanted him they could have made a free agency offer.
St Kilda could match if they wanted to keep him or get a late draft pick compensation.

The question is quite simple do you want him on our list or is he a list clogger.
If he is a list clogger then let him clog Carlton's list.

The club has to delist players every year.
Is he a player you will delist soon or are you committed to him for his football life.
If you want him on our list are you sure you want him there at the end of next season.
He has been offered a 2 year contract, it costs to delist him after one year.
If you don't delist him this year who do you delist instead of him.

[Choppa]

if Newnes stays and recovers his best form his experience alone will be very useful.

Agree, if he can get back his previous form. FWIW, I heard that he was carrying an injury for a lot of the season.

[longtimesaint]

We have probably delisted enough as we only have three draft picks and they would be used to upgrade Wilkie and possibly Joyce.
Newnes is worth keeping for depth as no doubt injuries will hit at some time in 2020.

[WellardSaint]

We have probably delisted enough as we only have three draft picks and they would be used to upgrade Wilkie and possibly Joyce.
Newnes is worth keeping for depth as no doubt injuries will hit at some time in 2020.

Wilkie had his contract extended in about June or July.
Keep Jill as depth?
We have brought in a large group of players.
We can let Newnes go easily with no probs.
There's emough backline players in the squad.

[Joffa Burns]

Triple MMM Melbourne reported this morning that Newnes will sign with Carlton today.
Tom Browne was the reporter (I think).

[saynta]

We have probably delisted enough as we only have three draft picks and they would be used to upgrade Wilkie and possibly Joyce.
Newnes is worth keeping for depth as no doubt injuries will hit at some time in 2020.

One more to go, actually.

[Joffa Burns]

We have probably delisted enough as we only have three draft picks and they would be used to upgrade Wilkie and possibly Joyce.
Newnes is worth keeping for depth as no doubt injuries will hit at some time in 2020.

One more to go, actually.

Is one more to go after Newnes departs or inclusive of newnes?

[saynta]

We have probably delisted enough as we only have three draft picks and they would be used to upgrade Wilkie and possibly Joyce.
Newnes is worth keeping for depth as no doubt injuries will hit at some time in 2020.

One more to go, actually.

Is one more to go after Newnes departs or inclusive of newnes?

If Newnes goes, Brown can be retained. So Inclusive of Newnes.

[Goose is king]

Well he is gone. Yes

[Saintmatt]

What a waste.

Don't care if the Parkey/Ted/Flamingo brigade flames me but this is just the embodiment of the Cho era ...

Put up with abject mediocrity from a guy who's got all the physical attributes to play and yet, then reward/elevate to leadership groups ... over 123 straight games. Imagine calling out that shite form at times (not all the time - he was certainly serviceable at times) and using it as an opportunity to try others on the list (or, at the very least - teach Jill that 1 tackle in 6 games is unacceptable)/

Nah - not Mr Conservative .... let's just keep doing the same shite over and over again and expect a different result. Seriously - when you see this crap go down, you just realise what a drafting, recruiting and development wasteland we've been.

[WellardSaint]

I remember Dean Rice going to Blues after a knee injury.
Rice played 11 or so games with them, then retired/was delisted?

[Edit: I had him confused with Craig Devonport...oops...Bailey Rice could have picked Blues under Father-Son rule, yep so I should have realised my error]

[longtimesaint]

Dean Rice played 118 games fo4 Carlton.
Delisting him was a mistake.

[Saintmatt]

I remember Dean Rice going to Blues after a knee injury.
Rice played 11 or so games with them, then retired/was delisted?

?

Dean Rice played 118 games for the Blues (after 116 with us) ... incl the 1995 Premiership

[Secret Kiel]

What a waste.

Don't care if the Parkey/Ted/Flamingo brigade flames me but this is just the embodiment of the Cho era ...

Put up with abject mediocrity from a guy who's got all the physical attributes to play and yet, then reward/elevate to leadership groups ... over 123 straight games. Imagine calling out that shite form at times (not all the time - he was certainly serviceable at times) and using it as an opportunity to try others on the list (or, at the very least - teach Jill that 1 tackle in 6 games is unacceptable)/

Nah - not Mr Conservative .... let's just keep doing the same shite over and over again and expect a different result. Seriously - when you see this crap go down, you just realise what a drafting, recruiting and development wasteland we've been.

Hypothetically if in 2020 we improve on our 9 wins in 2019 and make finals, possibly even win one final, what do you think the dominant commentary will be about with regards to the analysis of how we were able to achieve such a result? In your mind who gets the credit?

[Joffa Burns]

What a waste.

Don't care if the Parkey/Ted/Flamingo brigade flames me but this is just the embodiment of the Cho era ...

Put up with abject mediocrity from a guy who's got all the physical attributes to play and yet, then reward/elevate to leadership groups ... over 123 straight games. Imagine calling out that shite form at times (not all the time - he was certainly serviceable at times) and using it as an opportunity to try others on the list (or, at the very least - teach Jill that 1 tackle in 6 games is unacceptable)/

Nah - not Mr Conservative .... let's just keep doing the same shite over and over again and expect a different result. Seriously - when you see this crap go down, you just realise what a drafting, recruiting and development wasteland we've been.

Hypothetically if in 2020 we improve on our 9 wins in 2019 and make finals, possibly even win one final, what do you think the dominant commentary will be about with regards to the analysis of how we were able to achieve such a result? In your mind who gets the credit?

If we make finals & Hill, Jones, Howard & Butler have cracking seasons it will be the list management team and the new coaching group.

[Secret Kiel]

What a waste.

Don't care if the Parkey/Ted/Flamingo brigade flames me but this is just the embodiment of the Cho era ...

Put up with abject mediocrity from a guy who's got all the physical attributes to play and yet, then reward/elevate to leadership groups ... over 123 straight games. Imagine calling out that shite form at times (not all the time - he was certainly serviceable at times) and using it as an opportunity to try others on the list (or, at the very least - teach Jill that 1 tackle in 6 games is unacceptable)/

Nah - not Mr Conservative .... let's just keep doing the same shite over and over again and expect a different result. Seriously - when you see this crap go down, you just realise what a drafting, recruiting and development wasteland we've been.

Hypothetically if in 2020 we improve on our 9 wins in 2019 and make finals, possibly even win one final, what do you think the dominant commentary will be about with regards to the analysis of how we were able to achieve such a result? In your mind who gets the credit?

If we make finals & Hill, Jones, Howard & Butler have cracking seasons it will be the list management team and the new coaching group.

so are you saying that all our team needed to make finals was Hill, Jones, Howard and Butler? l, i.e. the difference between the last round of 2019 to the final round of 2020 was 4 players and some coach changes. Note I don't include the list management team because obviously they won't be taking the field or coaches box in 2020.

[skeptic]

It’s an odd question..,

Your asking what changed to lead to a scenario that hasn’t happened

Could be the new recruits
The game plan
Natural improvement
Maybe we were better in 2019 but it was lost amongst the injuries
Maybe the coaching and leadership make a difference

Varying degrees of all of the above

Maybe none of it

One has to see it