Assuming We Do All The Trades..Will We Be Better?

[damienc]

Dumb decisions about to be made if we lose some of our key matchwinners

We won games in 2019 with Blakenator and Juicey having an influence in our wins...Stuvvy also playing a crucial part in a couple of wins from his handful of games

If there is a long term plan, perhaps we might be better in 2021 or 2022, but I reckon it'll take a year to consolidate if we make half a dozen changes

Sorry. I disagree.

Assuming we bag all five targets they are all ready to play from round one assuming they don't get injured in the pre season.

So, if there is benefit to be had from having them it will become apparent sooner rather than later.

You would also expect these guys to pick up the game plan quickly as well.

Ultimately, it will depend on how well they play, as part of a St Kilda team.

I reckon they will all be good for us.

[Scollop]

I'd be over the moon if you're right

[SAINT-LEE]

I hope we are....But we have all seen St kilda sides full of talent that flop year after year.

I'm actually praying whilst wearing rabbits feet underwear braided in 4 leaf clover.

[Secret Kiel]

One things for certain, the Dougal Howard recruit has probably got me salivating the most, I heard Kane Corns go off his brain on the radio this arvo about how he thinks he's a future AA player and that we got him for next to nothing.

I've got to be honest I watch a lot of other teams and players play but I've never really studied this guy so if Kane rates him that highly then I can't wait to see him in action. Almost more excited to see Dougal play than Brad now.

We still need Zac though and I'm nervous the dogs are going to shoot themselves in the foot although it won't surprise if Simon L. can get Sydney their pick by other means.

[B.M]

Structurally Bruce will be a big loss

Howard will replace Brown

Carlisle will play CHB

Battle will go to CHF (pity, he played well at CHB)

Wilkie will play as a 3rd back

Membrey will play as a 3rd forward

King will play deep

Marshall and Ryder will rotate through there

Lonie, Parker, Long, Hind, Kent, Butler
Will fight it out for three spots

Billings, Hill, Smith and Sinclair outside Mids
With one to miss out
Phillips and Langlands in Reserve

Steele, Ross, Dunstan, Hannebury will play as inside Mids
Bytel in Reserve and we need another one or two in the draft.

Geary, Roberton, Clarke, Savage will be the defenders
Webster, McKenzie, Paton will be in Reserve

What we do need desperately is a back up Key Forward
Outside of McCartin we have nothing Mayo is a third.

Back up defefenders
We have Austin, Clavarino, Joyce, Marsh - plenty

[CQ SAINT]

Smith. Lol. Try and keep up with the Jones BM.

[CQ SAINT]

Structurally Bruce will be a big loss

Howard will replace Brown

Carlisle will play CHB

Battle will go to CHF (pity, he played well at CHB)

Wilkie will play as a 3rd back

Membrey will play as a 3rd forward

King will play deep

Marshall and Ryder will rotate through there

Lonie, Parker, Long, Hind, Kent, Butler
Will fight it out for three spots

Billings, Hill, Smith and Sinclair outside Mids
With one to miss out
Phillips and Langlands in Reserve

Steele, Ross, Dunstan, Hannebury will play as inside Mids
Bytel in Reserve and we need another one or two in the draft.

Geary, Roberton, Clarke, Savage will be the defenders
Webster, McKenzie, Paton will be in Reserve

What we do need desperately is a back up Key Forward
Outside of McCartin we have nothing Mayo is a third.

Back up defefenders
We have Austin, Clavarino, Joyce, Marsh - plenty

Gresham?

[CQ SAINT]

Structurally Bruce will be a big loss

Howard will replace Brown

Carlisle will play CHB

Battle will go to CHF (pity, he played well at CHB)

Wilkie will play as a 3rd back

Membrey will play as a 3rd forward

King will play deep

Marshall and Ryder will rotate through there

Lonie, Parker, Long, Hind, Kent, Butler
Will fight it out for three spots

Billings, Hill, Smith and Sinclair outside Mids
With one to miss out
Phillips and Langlands in Reserve

Steele, Ross, Dunstan, Hannebury will play as inside Mids
Bytel in Reserve and we need another one or two in the draft.

Geary, Roberton, Clarke, Savage will be the defenders
Webster, McKenzie, Paton will be in Reserve

What we do need desperately is a back up Key Forward
Outside of McCartin we have nothing Mayo is a third.

Back up defefenders
We have Austin, Clavarino, Joyce, Marsh - plenty

Coffield?

[guitars4]

I will need to wait & see what happens in the Hill trade but if we give up pick 10 ,Acres , a second round pick & 57 (effectively Jack Steven ) then that is way over's for Hill IMO unless there is something coming back

[beebarry]

that's starting to sound pretty good to be honest. If most of those play well, and I agree we need Gresh and Coff in the mix with the removal of Sinclair and Kent ....they shouldn't be getting a game most of the time, Sav too maybe .....I, like others, hope we don't lose Acres, and my 6-year-old cried for half an hour when I told him Jack Steven was leaving ....plus I see the hole that Bruce will leave. ...BUT .....we have been average for too long to do nothing and we are now doing something ......at least its something ! ... I reckon it is something, to be honest. I think we might just be in a lot better place off the field than we have been for a long time, some shrewd and professional operators there including the coach.

[CQ SAINT]

I will need to wait & see what happens in the Hill trade but if we give up pick 10 ,Acres , a second round pick & 57 (effectively Jack Steven ) then that is way over's for Hill IMO unless there is something coming back

Are you saying Acres is a 2nd round pick or Acres and a 2nd round future?

[saint-stu]

I will need to wait & see what happens in the Hill trade but if we give up pick 10 ,Acres , a second round pick & 57 (effectively Jack Steven ) then that is way over's for Hill IMO unless there is something coming back

Forget about Jack Steven for a second.. we can all agree that Geelong are shafting us on that one.

Our original offer for Hill was pick 6 + future second round.

We have traded away 6 so we're now hearing 10 + 58 + future second round (or Acres).

That seems OK to me. Fair even.

[guitars4]

I will need to wait & see what happens in the Hill trade but if we give up pick 10 ,Acres , a second round pick & 57 (effectively Jack Steven ) then that is way over's for Hill IMO unless there is something coming back

Are you saying Acres is a 2nd round pick or Acres and a 2nd round future?

No I'm not . I am saying that what I read on the AFL site said that this was the deal to secure Hill . I know the deal is still to be done but IMO only if what I read is correct then it's way too much

[Linton Lodger]

Yes, definitely.

Then on top of the 5 coming in, King, Bytel and a fully fit Hannebery will be like new recruits.

Then there's the possibility of Roberton as well.

[guitars4]

I will need to wait & see what happens in the Hill trade but if we give up pick 10 ,Acres , a second round pick & 57 (effectively Jack Steven ) then that is way over's for Hill IMO unless there is something coming back

Forget about Jack Steven for a second.. we can all agree that Geelong are shafting us on that one.

Our original offer for Hill was pick 6 + future second round.

We have traded away 6 so we're now hearing 10 + 58 + future second round (or Acres).

That seems OK to me. Fair even.

That's not how I interpreted the post I thought it was Acres & a future second round pick . If that's not the case then maybe it's fair .

[Linton Lodger]

Structurally Bruce will be a big loss

Howard will replace Brown

Carlisle will play CHB

Battle will go to CHF (pity, he played well at CHB)

Wilkie will play as a 3rd back

Membrey will play as a 3rd forward

King will play deep

Marshall and Ryder will rotate through there

Lonie, Parker, Long, Hind, Kent, Butler
Will fight it out for three spots

Billings, Hill, Smith and Sinclair outside Mids
With one to miss out
Phillips and Langlands in Reserve

Steele, Ross, Dunstan, Hannebury will play as inside Mids
Bytel in Reserve and we need another one or two in the draft.

Geary, Roberton, Clarke, Savage will be the defenders
Webster, McKenzie, Paton will be in Reserve

What we do need desperately is a back up Key Forward
Outside of McCartin we have nothing Mayo is a third.

Back up defefenders
We have Austin, Clavarino, Joyce, Marsh - plenty

Pretty much agree with what you've written BM, with the exception of Bruce been a structural loss. I don't see where he fits in a forward line including King, Ryder/Marshall and Membrey.

[CQ SAINT]

I will need to wait & see what happens in the Hill trade but if we give up pick 10 ,Acres , a second round pick & 57 (effectively Jack Steven ) then that is way over's for Hill IMO unless there is something coming back

Are you saying Acres is a 2nd round pick or Acres and a 2nd round future?

No I'm not . I am saying that what I read on the AFL site said that this was the deal to secure Hill . I know the deal is still to be done but IMO only if what I read is correct then it's way too much

Yeah ok. They said a future second round.

[freely]

It's starting to feel like that philosophy question where you ask how many parts of your body you can replace and still be you.

[cwrcyn]

Assuming we get all the players we're after and all deals are done........

Hill for Steven (26 year old speedster for a 30 year old year old speedster)
Ryder for Longer (an ageing mobile ruck who can swing forward replacing a lumbering, poorly skilled, one dimensional player)
Howard for Brown (a 23 year old for a 31 year old)
Jones for Acres ( a hard-nosed scrapper with speed replacing a talented one-paced big mid who plays with insufficient intensity)
Butler for Armitage (a young small forward with great speed replacing a broken warrior)
No one for Bruce (This is a big loss, even with the emergence of King. However, Battle can go forward to soften the blow slightly in the interim)


Longer and Armitage were shot
Steven was never going to be with us next year, anyway

By the look of that it's an improvement in the midfield and defense, but a probable loss up forward . We replace three 30+ year olds with only one of them (Ryder). What it will do is put pressure on inconsistent performers. There will be competition for spots in the midfield next year like we haven't seen for years. Since 2018, our midfield has lost Steven and Armitage (well, only Steven really), but gained Hannebery, Hill*, Clark, Gresham, and Jones*. We now have the kind of midfield depth required to match it with the better midfields in the competition

The only guy I feel sorry for in all this is Brown. He's been great for us and it'll be sad to see him go if that's what the club decides. It's also a pity that Armitage has ended his career this way (cruelled by injury). Both can be really proud of their achievements

[samuraisaint]

I think we try to hold on to Stuv. Might be easier said than done. Maybe not. But you just can't replace those kind of players.

[guitars4]

I think we try to hold on to Stuv. Might be easier said than done. Maybe not. But you just can't replace those kind of players.

I'm with you mate pick 57 for Jackie Boy is not only wrong but offensive IMO

[ausfatcat]

- giving away a 50 goal a year forward (scarce commodities)
- giving away a recent AA mid (scarce commodities).

Bruce ain't a 50 goal a year forward he's a 35 goal a year forward, his one year of fifty goals was a abnormality
AA mid? Stuv I presume no he won't ever be a AA mid again

[B.M]

Steven has never been AA

Yes,

I forgot Coffield (a reserve HB) and Gresham (a Mid/Forward)

Bruce is a 1.5 -> 2 goal per game forward but it’s his contest work that is important.

I don’t see a spot for Ryder If Bruce was in the 22
What’s better
Having a ruckman who is a average forward
Having a Forward who is an average ruckman

Well because we have a good number 1 ruckman, I’d suggest a good Forward who can give a chop out is more important

[kalsaint]

Am optimistic too.

But to put the downside.
- I am not sold on Hill. Great ball getter but often butchers it.
- giving away a 50 goal a year forward (scarce commodities)
- giving away a recent AA mid (scarce commodities).

But happy with the other potential top-up picks.
And have a lot faith and respect for Ratts.

Potentially we should be better but it might take 1/2 of a season for the coaches changes to be build in and locked by leadership on the ground. We need to allow some time for magic to start, players to understand others strengths and weaknesses and how these can be managed by ground leaders.

We will vastly need to improve our player protection to provide time for quality disposal and better use of our speedier players. One speed mids cant make best use of open spaces if the ball is given to them a metre in front at ground level or directly to a covered player. The outside game has to improve with this team now. Watch a few videos of clubs that do this well such as Geelong Eagles and Richmond.
I am sold on Hill as he delivers well to the forward line. He also allows the slower game plan to work by can help to change it up if he can provide space for others. He might not be a sole leader in this aspect and other need to help in this regard.

On penalties that occur from frustration Hill may show his displeasure at times but Bruce was doing this regularly too. Probably little change overall on this.

[minneapolis]

It's starting to feel like that philosophy question where you ask how many parts of your body you can replace and still be you.

The answer is all but one.