Butler nominates St Kilda

[Joffa Burns]

We need to be very careful on the deals we are offering to fringe players from other clubs.

No idea on the offer to Butler but giving three years to Kent was ludicrous.

It might be ok now but in 2 to three years could cost us big time. There is a reason why Kent went for a pick in the 60’s as will Butler and that reason is they are very average.

Butler is quicker but not as talented a player as Lonie.

[terry smith rules]

Why would we do that when Lonie is better than Butler?

Exactly

I think people who don’t watch many games of other teams start to believe the players at other clubs must be better than ours.

#grassisnotalwaysgreener

[SaintPav]

Butler is ok; he’s a good finisher and is very efficient but he plays in a very good team and is usually on the end of some good play further up the ground.

But, I’m confused and a bit worried about our strategy in recruiting more small forwards (it's been reported that we're after Sam Gray as well) that we clearly don't need.

What is it that we’re trying to achieve?

What’s the objective?

Confusing.

[BarryGrogan]

Butler is ok; he’s a good finisher and is very efficient but he plays in a very good team and is usually on the end of some good play further up the ground.

But, I’m confused and a bit worried about our strategy in recruiting more small forwards (it's been reported that we're after Sam Gray as well) that we clearly don't need.

What is it that we’re trying to achieve?

What’s the objective?

Confusing.

Reading between the lines, it looks like we'll be playing a game with strong F50 pressure at its core.

Membrey, King, Marshall/Ryder as a constant in the F50, with guys like Butler, Gray, Long and Lonie at their feet.

Chasing Keath, Howard and Ryder (in addition to Membrey, Marshall, Carlisle and King) makes it clear that we want to be competitive when the ball is in the air.

Chasing Gray, Butler, Hill and Jones make it clear that we want to be dangerous when it's on the ground.

We seem to be moving away from the 'medium' type team, where we weren't good in the air, and weren't great on the ground either.

Savage, Newnes, White, Webster, Geary, McKenzie, Acres etc. are all neither great in the air, nor great on the ground.

They're generic type in-betweeners.

Some of them bring other attributes that add value (Geary for example), but if there's a dozen of them in your team it becomes a problem because you're not worrying the opposition either in the air or with the ground ball.


From afar, it seems we're going to be a threat in the air across the whole ground - and be dangerous with the ground ball.

[saintsRrising]

Butler is ok; he’s a good finisher and is very efficient but he plays in a very good team and is usually on the end of some good play further up the ground.

But, I’m confused and a bit worried about our strategy in recruiting more small forwards (it's been reported that we're after Sam Gray as well) that we clearly don't need.

What is it that we’re trying to achieve?

What’s the objective?

Confusing.

I think it is more Butler or Gray and they have gone with Butler.

Gray is more a HF/mid though. Butler has been a pure FP.

[prwilkinson]

Carn Saints!

[Secret Kiel]

Butler is ok; he’s a good finisher and is very efficient but he plays in a very good team and is usually on the end of some good play further up the ground.

But, I’m confused and a bit worried about our strategy in recruiting more small forwards (it's been reported that we're after Sam Gray as well) that we clearly don't need.

What is it that we’re trying to achieve?

What’s the objective?

Confusing.

Reading between the lines, it looks like we'll be playing a game with strong F50 pressure at its core.

Membrey, King, Marshall/Ryder as a constant in the F50, with guys like Butler, Gray, Long and Lonie at their feet.

Chasing Keath, Howard and Ryder (in addition to Membrey, Marshall, Carlisle and King) makes it clear that we want to be competitive when the ball is in the air.

Chasing Gray, Butler, Hill and Jones make it clear that we want to be dangerous when it's on the ground.

We seem to be moving away from the 'medium' type team, where we weren't good in the air, and weren't great on the ground either.

Savage, Newnes, White, Webster, Geary, McKenzie, Acres etc. are all neither great in the air, nor great on the ground.

They're generic type in-betweeners.

Some of them bring other attributes that add value (Geary for example), but if there's a dozen of them in your team it becomes a problem because you're not worrying the opposition either in the air or with the ground ball.


From afar, it seems we're going to be a threat in the air across the whole ground - and be dangerous with the ground ball.

I'd offer an even simpler description of the objective, foot skills, foot skills, foot skills. I'm really happy to have picked up DB and even happier at the price.

[BarryGrogan]

Butler is ok; he’s a good finisher and is very efficient but he plays in a very good team and is usually on the end of some good play further up the ground.

But, I’m confused and a bit worried about our strategy in recruiting more small forwards (it's been reported that we're after Sam Gray as well) that we clearly don't need.

What is it that we’re trying to achieve?

What’s the objective?

Confusing.

Reading between the lines, it looks like we'll be playing a game with strong F50 pressure at its core.

Membrey, King, Marshall/Ryder as a constant in the F50, with guys like Butler, Gray, Long and Lonie at their feet.

Chasing Keath, Howard and Ryder (in addition to Membrey, Marshall, Carlisle and King) makes it clear that we want to be competitive when the ball is in the air.

Chasing Gray, Butler, Hill and Jones make it clear that we want to be dangerous when it's on the ground.

We seem to be moving away from the 'medium' type team, where we weren't good in the air, and weren't great on the ground either.

Savage, Newnes, White, Webster, Geary, McKenzie, Acres etc. are all neither great in the air, nor great on the ground.

They're generic type in-betweeners.

Some of them bring other attributes that add value (Geary for example), but if there's a dozen of them in your team it becomes a problem because you're not worrying the opposition either in the air or with the ground ball.


From afar, it seems we're going to be a threat in the air across the whole ground - and be dangerous with the ground ball.

I'd offer an even simpler description of the objective, foot skills, foot skills, foot skills. I'm really happy to have picked up DB and even happier at the price.

I don't think it is that simple.

Ryder, Howard, Jones and Butler don't offer much in the way of foot skills.

There seems ro be a clear reshuffling of the size balance of the list though.

[saintsRrising]

There seems ro be a clear reshuffling of the size balance of the list though.

In terms of list:

TALL OUTS
Well as it stands it would seem the talls of Longer, Pierce and Bruce will be gone.

Brown could well be gone, but may be kept as a back up player.

Paddy I would doubt would actually play.

So that is 3 to 5 talls out.

TALL INS

Ryder, Howard, Biggy

I assume that we gain another ruck whether a young draftee, Sate League ruck or another AFL's clubs discard.

So 4 talls in.

Overall our list may have a one or two less talls in 2020 that in 2019.

In terms of best 22:

Max King > Well due to injuries we mainly did not play two genuine talls in the forward line in 2019. This was due to injuries rather than preference though. So effectively in 2020 we should revert to two genuine talls in the forward line, though one is like to the resting ruck. So in terms of v 2019 this is larger height difference of 14cm . In terms of 2018 it is say 8cm

Ryder = Bruce Both 197 Bruce bigger tank and more agile. However when Marshall is the one forward them Marshall is taller and of similar mobility.

Howard > Brown 199 v s 196 But Howard is quicker and more agile

Overall compared to 2019 we will have one more genuine tall in our 22. In terms of 2018 the same, except the games we played two rucks.

But with Max and Dougall both being taller, our talls will be that bit bigger.

Also when Marshall is the ruck resting forward that will give us two key forwards who are 203 and 201 cm and that is something we have not seen before I think at the Saints.

We did of course have Everitt playing often as a key forward at 203 cm.




As a point of trivia I remember one game where we had 3 tall forwards starting on just the FF line and from memory this was Mark Scott -Mark Jackson - Lockett !

[Secret Kiel]

There seems ro be a clear reshuffling of the size balance of the list though.

In terms of list:

TALL OUTS
Well as it stands it would seem the talls of Longer, Pierce and Bruce will be gone.

Brown could well be gone, but may be kept as a back up player.

Paddy I would doubt would actually play.

So that is 3 to 5 talls out.

TALL INS

Ryder, Howard, Biggy

I assume that we gain another ruck whether a young draftee, Sate League ruck or another AFL's clubs discard.

So 4 talls in.

Overall our list may have a one or two less talls in 2020 that in 2019.

In terms of best 22:

Max King > Well due to injuries we mainly did not play two genuine talls in the forward line in 2019. This was due to injuries rather than preference though. So effectively in 2020 we should revert to two genuine talls in the forward line, though one is like to the resting ruck. So in terms of v 2019 this is larger height difference of 14cm . In terms of 2018 it is say 8cm

Ryder = Bruce Both 197 Bruce bigger tank and more agile. However when Marshall is the one forward them Marshall is taller and of similar mobility.

Howard > Brown 199 v s 196 But Howard is quicker and more agile

Overall compared to 2019 we will have one more genuine tall in our 22. In terms of 2018 the same, except the games we played two rucks.

But with Max and Dougall both being taller, our talls will be that bit bigger.

Also when Marshall is the ruck resting forward that will give us two key forwards who are 203 and 201 cm and that is something we have not seen before I think at the Saints.

We did of course have Everitt playing often as a key forward at 203 cm.




As a point of trivia I remember one game where we had 3 tall forwards starting on just the FF line and from memory this was Mark Scott -Mark Jackson - Lockett !

For the price we are getting a player who played in the 2017 flag, Dan Buttler could be the trade of 2019.

[saintsRrising]

For the price we are getting a player who played in the 2017 flag, Dan Butler could be the trade of 2019.

Well my post was on talls. But yes this thread is on Butler and so back on track.

Butler needs to plays like he did in 2017 and not like he did in 2019. Opposition coaches put time into players and work them out. Not all players can keep evolving their games to outweigh this.

Worth a punt as trade cost is virtually free pickwise.

Being a "premiership player" means little as every premiership team has average and GOPs in it.

[Secret Kiel]

For the price we are getting a player who played in the 2017 flag, Dan Butler could be the trade of 2019.

Well my post was on talls. But yes this thread is on Butler and so back on track.

Butler needs to plays like he did in 2017 and not like he did in 2019. Opposition coaches put time into players and work them out. Not all players can keep evolving their games to outweigh this.

Worth a punt as trade cost is virtually free pickwise.

Being a "premiership player" means little as every premiership team has average and GOPs in it.

I agree with the GOP point however I suppose another value he could add is his experience in finals and the build up to a GF. He actually played reasonably well in the 2017 finals series and kicked the sealer in the GF. That really gives himself a benchmark of what his best can be so there can only be upside if he can get himself going again and hopefully the excitement around the club at the moment helps along in that regard. His presence at the club will also certainly put pressure on our small forwards to improve so he could make the likes of lonie and parker better.