McCartin

[Goose is king]

Every contest McCartin was in I had a lingering feeling of I hope he is alright and I would keep my eyes on him instead of where the ball was. I wish him the best but I wrote him off after the pre-season incident. When I watch Max King I’m glad I don’t have to worry about concussions and his knee injury seems irrelevant to me. Hopefully that’s not just wishful thinking. I can’t wait to see what he produces

[Spinner]

Curly

Give it a rest, seriously

And if clubs did have him 1 or 2

Yes, they had it wrong.
DeGoey, Brayshaw, Moore, Lever, Heeney, Wright ... in hindsight were easily better picks.
I do realise Heeney and Moore were bid players, but we didn’t bid on them.

As everyone knows, I had Christian at #1
Which also would have been an average pick... but not a poor pick as he has at least played nearly 100 games.

Moore and Heeney weren’t available. Wright has struggled to play seniors at GC. DeGoey would have been forced out by the media witch hunt if we drafted him and Brayshaw we’d be spewing on because he’s one paced.

McCartin has been killed with injury no one could have predicted.

Agree with this Curly, and all the multiple follow ups.

The bidding process for the Moore/Henry draft was significantly different to the year after which was points based.

Collingwood and Sydney simply had to use their next draft pick in the round the bid came. Therefore Collingwood would still have used 8 and Sydney 18 even if we bid pick 1 so what was the point.

No point. The promotional value attached to the number one pick and the fact that a pick simply had to come before those respective team’s first pick made it ridiculously stupid to do otherwise.

The point being, better to make them have to use a first rounder instead of a second or third, allowing them to gain extra early talent.

Remember, they only had to match the bid with their next pick, so make them do it as early as possible.

Which is what happened. No incentive for clubs to bid until a pick or so before Sydney’s and Collingwood’s respective first picks.

Idiocy to bid with the first pick and give up the promotional value attached.

[B.M]

Of course you agree with Curly, hardly surprising?...

If Paddy was an academy of f/s selection. Would we have bid on him at pick 1 if we rated him there?

[CURLY]

Of course you agree with Curly, hardly surprising?...

If Paddy was an academy of f/s selection. Would we have bid on him at pick 1 if we rated him there?

No why would you?

Ridiculous call by you and displaying you have no idea.

[B.M]

Um.. because you rated him the best player and if the swans didn’t match, albeit unlikely, he’d be on your list. If they did match, you just take the next best.

No offence, but I think you’ve embarrassed yourself a bit on this topic.

[Spinner]

Of course you agree with Curly, hardly surprising?...

If Paddy was an academy of f/s selection. Would we have bid on him at pick 1 if we rated him there?

No why would you?

Ridiculous call by you and displaying you have no idea.

100% spot on.

[Spinner]

Of course you agree with Curly, hardly surprising?...

If Paddy was an academy of f/s selection. Would we have bid on him at pick 1 if we rated him there?

No idea if this is to me.

But if it is I agree with Curly because I believe he is right for the reasons I have explained above.

[CURLY]

Um.. because you rated him the best player and if the swans didn’t match, albeit unlikely, he’d be on your list. If they did match, you just take the next best.

No offence, but I think you’ve embarrassed yourself a bit on this topic.

If you had pick one and the best player in the draft was your father son your academy player why would you use pick one on him?

Please tell me because this will embarrass you and you’ll take off.

[damienc]

Paddy's Manager says McCartin wants to play on.

But eight concussions say that would not be a good idea for his long term health.

A fairly innocuous knock in the JLT puts him out for the season and he still has symptoms.

Paddy's Manager says it will be St Kilda's call.

[saintbob]

Paddy's Manager says McCartin wants to play on.

But eight concussions say that would not be a good idea for his long term health.

A fairly innocuous knock in the JLT puts him out for the season and he still has symptoms.

Paddy's Manager says it will be St Kilda's call.

Yeah I heard that, surely St Kilda have a duty of care and they have to cut him from the list.

[sendmehomehappy]

The AFL must take a lead here for common sense before Paddy is destroyed. He’s still symptomatic so ban the kid from playing NOW! He could get a minor head knock even while training for goodness sakes.

He must be un- insurable now.

The league, and St Kilda, are so big on any virtue seeking cause they can latch on to, yet bizarrely seem willing to risk this young man’s life.

[Ghost Like]

Paddy's Manager says McCartin wants to play on.

But eight concussions say that would not be a good idea for his long term health.

A fairly innocuous knock in the JLT puts him out for the season and he still has symptoms.

Paddy's Manager says it will be St Kilda's call.

Will be interesting to see whose duty carries the most weight. The Manager's duty to extract his entire contract & percentage, St Kilda's duty of care or Paddy's duty to himself.

Surely this is now just a negotiation for a pay out.

St Kilda will not be able to make a call without medical opinions, the Clubs, the AFLs and an independent.

Paddy and his Manager (if his Manager is genuine) should be honest with themselves and make the call for his future health.

[barneyboyz]

I was really backing B.M. in this... until Spinner got involved, although there seems to be a bit in both camps.

It is quite obvious that you wouldn't try and use picks 1 - 5 in the manner which B.M. suggests, but any time after then would have been really worth a look

I also agree that the AFL needs to get involved here, the science is becoming too significant on this subject

[shanegrambeau]

The league, and St Kilda, are so big on any virtue seeking cause they can latch on to,....

Indeed.

But what presents the biggest virtue signaling bid,
A) allow Paddy to play because he wants to have “one more go”... Virue opportunity = we, as a club, treat his wishes respectfully. We don’t just play by the numbers, we give him a “fair go”
B) We, as a club, say, “no, it would be irresponsible of us to let you walk on the park again” Virtue opportunity = ??? Not as strong. We might be seen to be avoiding the responsibility and even hard assed anyway, cruelling his last chance to make it. Had Paddy been a Coleman medalist champion, then yes, the virtues brownie points would come.

[shanegrambeau]

The league, and St Kilda, are so big on any virtue seeking cause they can latch on to,....

Indeed.

But what presents the biggest virtue signaling bid,
A) allow Paddy to play because he wants to have “one more go”... Virue opportunity = we, as a club, treat his wishes respectfully. We don’t just play by the numbers, we give him a “fair go”
B) We, as a club, say, “no, it would be irresponsible of us to let you walk on the park again” Virtue opportunity = ??? Not as strong. We might be seen to be avoiding the responsibility and even hard assed anyway, cruelling his last chance to make it. Had Paddy been a Coleman medalist champion, then yes, the virtues brownie points would come.

[sendmehomehappy]

The league, and St Kilda, are so big on any virtue seeking cause they can latch on to,....

Indeed.

But what presents the biggest virtue signaling bid,
A) allow Paddy to play because he wants to have “one more go”... Virue opportunity = we, as a club, treat his wishes respectfully. We don’t just play by the numbers, we give him a “fair go”
B) We, as a club, say, “no, it would be irresponsible of us to let you walk on the park again” Virtue opportunity = ??? Not as strong. We might be seen to be avoiding the responsibility and even hard assed anyway, cruelling his last chance to make it. Had Paddy been a Coleman medalist champion, then yes, the virtues brownie points would come.

I'm thinking neither of these Shane.

If virtue was to be sought-after here (and I'm sure in this case it is far from the club's aim), it could only be to consider Paddy's essential health issues foremost and to make a practical stand upon all the scientific and medical evidence at hand.

[CURLY]

BM been proven wrong has moved on.

[Spinner]

I was really backing B.M. in this... until Spinner got involved, although there seems to be a bit in both camps.

It is quite obvious that you wouldn't try and use picks 1 - 5 in the manner which B.M. suggests, but any time after then would have been really worth a look

I also agree that the AFL needs to get involved here, the science is becoming too significant on this subject

This is a really good post.

Agree, the previous system (while better than the system before that) is a lot better now but not perfect. Not sure what would improve it now.

We have also never been real winners in terms of father sons so maybe we would think differently if we had a Geelong/Dogs scenario.

[minneapolis]

Paddy only has two choices.

His manager is talking for him and wants to continue the pay packet while it lasts. No other club would take him so having a current contract and being paid is still happening until he retires.

The Club wants to show they are supportive and will ask the AFL to take the hit and not allow him to continue (using the insurance company as the cover).

[desertsaint]

I don’t know why afl clubs and players don’t have insurance for career ending injuries. Surely he can retire injured and receive a comensurate payout to cover his contract length and then some. If not, why not? Should be mandatory for all clubs and players.

[fugazi]

Paddy will not play AFL again. There's just no way.
His 9th concussion is inevitable.
Pay him out now, move him on.

[saintspremiers]

They did do that?!

A bid came in the first round for both players, and they matched.

So now you’ve sort of got your head around it, let’s look at the original argument.

Moore and Heeney were in a group of players who (with hindsight) could/should have gone as the number 1 selection as they have turned out better than McCartin or Petracca for that matter (who I had as a clear #1)

Of course
If Heeney or Moore we’re selected by us (which they COULD have been) Sydney and Collingwood could have matched.

So in hindsight our recruiting dept got it wrong, as most do every year. Rarely does the best player in the draft group go number 1. But as long as the player you select turns out to be a good player, that’s ok. Didn’t happen with Paddy.

Thing is, many saints supporters were wanting Petracca at the time, and whilst he is no star yet, he was in my opinion a better prospect at the time.
Paddy had skin folds of +60 FFS and I could probably beat him around the tan. Petracca is no aerobic athlete either, but he has elite power and acceleration.

Anyway, all history now. We took the right guy last year imo.

And what do you base that on. He has already torn his ACL and done his ankle and failed to play a single senior game. Yet you're saying we took the right guy last year!!
All I know is if I'm investing picks 1 and 4 I'm not taking a diabetic or someone who has already done an ACL.

No one gives a flying f*** what you think <editedby mods>Pest.

Now please be a good boy and just go away.
Thank you

[Nick_BlueNRG]

They did do that?!

A bid came in the first round for both players, and they matched.

So now you’ve sort of got your head around it, let’s look at the original argument.

Moore and Heeney were in a group of players who (with hindsight) could/should have gone as the number 1 selection as they have turned out better than McCartin or Petracca for that matter (who I had as a clear #1)

Of course
If Heeney or Moore we’re selected by us (which they COULD have been) Sydney and Collingwood could have matched.

So in hindsight our recruiting dept got it wrong, as most do every year. Rarely does the best player in the draft group go number 1. But as long as the player you select turns out to be a good player, that’s ok. Didn’t happen with Paddy.

Thing is, many saints supporters were wanting Petracca at the time, and whilst he is no star yet, he was in my opinion a better prospect at the time.
Paddy had skin folds of +60 FFS and I could probably beat him around the tan. Petracca is no aerobic athlete either, but he has elite power and acceleration.

Anyway, all history now. We took the right guy last year imo.

And what do you base that on. He has already torn his ACL and done his ankle and failed to play a single senior game. Yet you're saying we took the right guy last year!!
All I know is if I'm investing picks 1 and 4 I'm not taking a diabetic or someone who has already done an ACL.

No one gives a flying f*** what you think <editedby mods>Pest.

Now please be a good boy and just go away.
Thank you

I asked you a legitimate question saintspremiers. And because you can't answer it you threw your toys and spat your dummy out of your cot.
I'ii ask you again, in your opinion, how do you know Ming was the right guy when he hasn't even played one game for us yet?
I am eagerly awaiting your reply saintspremiers.

[To the top]

It is a positive that McCartin has approached who he has and presumably has received the assessments he has, resulting in him expressing the desire and intent to continue to pursue his AFL career

We should wish him every success because, fully fit he is a required player at St Kilda

He is a very highly skilled footballer

[Spinner]

I don’t know why afl clubs and players don’t have insurance for career ending injuries. Surely he can retire injured and receive a comensurate payout to cover his contract length and then some. If not, why not? Should be mandatory for all clubs and players.

I’m pretty sure you need insurance to take the field...

So they do.