Gary Buckenara analyses St Kilda's list

[outside66]

From the below HScum link

www.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fteams%2Fst-kilda%2Fgary-buckenara-analyses-st-kildas-list-after-the-2019-season%2Fnews-story%2F75f4a9fafefbc5551aea048d1118938f&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium


Gary Buckenara analyses St Kilda’s list after the 2019 season
OCTOBER 08, 2019
For too long St Kilda has been guilty of overrating the potential of its list to develop into a team capable of winning a premiership.

While the Saints have undoubtedly had their fair share of bad luck on the injury front with the likes of Dylan Roberton, Jarryn Geary, Dan Hannebery, Paddy McCartin, Jake Carlisle and Jack Steven missing most of if not the entire season for various reasons, the fact is there isn’t enough star power on the list.

St Kilda is in a similar position to North Melbourne in that the Saints have far too many C-grade players who are honest role players but won’t be the next wave of stars capable of lifting the side into premiership calculations.

I have rated 26 Saints players in the C-grade category, most of whom are aged 22-28, which is just far too many and that is why I have major concerns.

Next year, the pressure will be on new coach Brett Ratten — who is a fantastic appointment — to get the best out of the likes of Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres, Jack Steele, Jack Lonie, Jack Newnes, Jimmy Webster, Jack Sinclair, Daniel McKenzie, Ben Long and McCartin. These guys have all been at the club long enough now and have had enough time invested into their development that we’re going to see them make or break their careers as AFL footballers. Are they going to take the next step and elevate themselves into the B-grade range with the potential to get to A-grade level, or are they just going to keep producing the same football they have for the past 2-3 seasons?

That’s the big question.

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Can players like Jack Steele take their game to another level in 2020? Picture: Michael Klein
Can players like Jack Steele take their game to another level in 2020? Picture: Michael Klein
I’ve heard good things are happening in the player development and leadership space under the guidance of Melbourne Storm legend Billy Slater, so let’s hope that can translate into on-field performance because 2020 is going to be a defining season for this club. Are they going to compete and challenge for finals in the next few seasons or continue to hover around the 10-13 bracket?

The Saints are set to be boosted by the addition of Bradley Hill which will give them some much-needed class and speed through the midfield, but he’s not going to transform this team overnight, while Zak Jones is a good player who will also add some dare to their ball movement, but he’s not a star.

Pick 6 would be a fair trade for Hill given how much he will add and how desperate the club has been to get this exact type of player, plus they’ll need to pay a high price given he’s contracted. He’s just turned 26 too, so he’s just entering the prime of his football career. The Saints will try and get a later draft pick back in the deal but a straight swap for pick 6 is fair. It’s a no-brainer for what Hill brings.

Bradley Hill will bring much-needed pace and class to the Saints — at a price.
Bradley Hill will bring much-needed pace and class to the Saints — at a price.
Paddy Ryder is also a perfect fit for the Saints, but he will need to come in and be the No.1 ruckman over Rowan Marshall because he hates playing forward. I imagine part of the Saints’ pitch to get Ryder to agree to join the club was the lure of being No.1 ruck, with Marshall to play mostly up forward, which he is more than capable of because he’s played centre half-forward before, with stints in the ruck.

If the Saints get pick 32 from the Bulldogs for Josh Bruce, who wants to be traded even though the Saints maintain he is a required player, then I’d on-trade that pick for Ryder. Bruce and Ryder have about the same trade worth given the value they will offer their new clubs.

Jones is worth a second-round pick, so the Saints might have to give up a future pick to get the deal done with the Swans.

MORE NEWS:

Saints’ biggest trade move still yet to come

Blues big early winners as trade trifecta nears

Jack Steven is interesting. He’s such a good player when he’s up and running but unfortunately he’s had personal struggles this season and wants to head to Geelong to be closer to family. The Saints will need to do the right thing in terms of player welfare but at the same time, you can’t just give players away. I’d push for pick 36 from the Cats but be prepared to accept pick 56.

If the Saints can get pick 36 then they could trade that selection to Sydney for Jones.

LIST NEEDS
The Saints are poised to address their two major needs with Hill and Jones to provide speed and creativity through the midfield, while they have been crying out for a decent ruckman and have struck gold with Rowan Marshall out of the VFL but he needs help and Ryder will be a huge get.

But even with the arrival of Ryder, the Saints still need another back-up ruckman to add some depth in case he and Marshall both suffer injuries. Both Billy Longer and Lewis Pierce have been delisted.

If Bruce is traded then the Saints require another tall forward, either developing or experienced.

Paddy Ryder is a smart pick-up.
Paddy Ryder is a smart pick-up.
LIST BREAKDOWN
A: Nil

B+: Nil

B: Rowan Marshall

B-: Jake Carlisle, Jack Steven, Seb Ross, Jarryn Geary, Jack Billings, Josh Bruce

C+: Dan Hannebery, Shane Savage, Luke Dunstan, Blake Acres, Jack Steele, Jack Lonie, Jack Newnes, Nathan Brown, Josh Battle, Tim Membrey, Jimmy Webster, Jack Sinclair, Daniel McKenzie, Dean Kent, Nick Hind, Callum Wilkie, Matthew Parker

C: Dylan Roberton, Ben Long, Logan Austin, Paddy McCartin, Brandon White, Bailey Rice, Darragh Joyce, Ben Paton, Robbie Young

C-: Nil

Developing*: Jade Gresham, Hunter Clark, Ed Phillips, Nick Coffield, Max King

Developing: Oscar Clavarino, Doulton Langlands, Jack Bytel, Sam Alabakis, Jack Mayo

Please note: Developing* refers to players aged 21 or under with the talent and potential to become A or B-grade players.

DRAFT STRATEGY
The Saints are unlikely to have a big hand at the draft this year given how active they will be in the trade period. With the anticipated later selections they’ll have, I’d be targeting specific needs — classy midfielders who are good decision makers. Fortunately this draft is strong in this area.

CRYSTAL BALL
St Kilda can play finals next year as the additions of Hill, Jones and Ryder will elevate the potential in this list. Bringing in those three will improve the list overall despite the possible loss of Bruce and Steven. They should be in the 6-10 range in terms of ladder position.

[saintsRrising]

If the Saints get pick 32 from the Bulldogs for Josh Bruce, who wants to be traded even though the Saints maintain he is a required player, then I’d on-trade that pick for Ryder. Bruce and Ryder have about the same trade worth given the value they will offer their new clubs.

While the article is generally an accurate read, I strongly disagree with this part.

Ryder is on his last legs and is only worth a late pick. He is not the player he was. I would have serious doubts about how good he will be in the second year of his deal.

Bruce is in his prime years, and is perfectly timed with the Dogs pushing for Top$ in the next several seasons.
I also believe that Bruce will gain a trade value of more than 32.

Bruce is being recruited to be a strong part of the Doggies push. Ryder is more of "filler".

[outside66]

If the Saints get pick 32 from the Bulldogs for Josh Bruce, who wants to be traded even though the Saints maintain he is a required player, then I’d on-trade that pick for Ryder. Bruce and Ryder have about the same trade worth given the value they will offer their new clubs.

While the article is generally a accurate read I strongly disagree with this part.

Ryder is on his last legs and is only worth a late pick. He is not the player he was. I would have serious doubts about how good he will be in the second year of his deal.

Bruce is in his prime years, and is perfectly timed with the Dogs pushing for Top$ in the next several seasons.
I also believe that Bruce will gain a trade value of more than 32.

Bruce is being recruited to be a strong part of the Doggies push. Ryder is more of "filler".

Absolutely agree with you there. Port won't be losing much sleep about Ryder leaving.

[SinCitySainter]

It is a lasy article with absolutely no insight.
Saints lack A graders really what a surprise.
Does the Pies one say they have a lot of midfielders?

[fugazi]

He is right about us over rating the list.
DMac on a 3 year extension is one of the bizarre decisions in AFL history.
No A list or B+ list players
Would have thought a fit Hannaberry would be B+, as well as Billings. But then again, maybe it's better to be a hard marker.

[fugazi]

Hopefully Max King and Hunter Clark are A graders in a few years.

[evertonfc]

Thank God Buckenara isn't anywhere near our list manager.

His strategy for the coming two weeks:

- Pay overs for Hill
- Pay overs for Jones
- Take way unders for Bruce
- Take unbelievable unders for Steven

Oh and btw, here's a few cliches about players who aren't stars and never will be.

Then he wonders why our list is in such a bad spot.

I can't stand this sort of cheap analysis. I've always had great suspicions that he's one of those types who talks a good game, but...well, you know the rest. Makes me want to tear my hair out.

FWIW, he's the only wannabe recruiter who didn't rate Connor Rozee as a top 10 last year.

[Spinner]

If the Saints get pick 32 from the Bulldogs for Josh Bruce, who wants to be traded even though the Saints maintain he is a required player, then I’d on-trade that pick for Ryder. Bruce and Ryder have about the same trade worth given the value they will offer their new clubs.

While the article is generally an accurate read, I strongly disagree with this part.

Ryder is on his last legs and is only worth a late pick. He is not the player he was. I would have serious doubts about how good he will be in the second year of his deal.

Bruce is in his prime years, and is perfectly timed with the Dogs pushing for Top$ in the next several seasons.
I also believe that Bruce will gain a trade value of more than 32.

Bruce is being recruited to be a strong part of the Doggies push. Ryder is more of "filler".

Spot on, that article lost me at that point.

Not sure why Gresham doesn’t get a rating? 60 odd games and not deserving of a rating.

I assume the ‘21 and under’ criteria for the developing class is done for all clubs he analyses?

[Impatient Sainter]

Buckenara has little or no respect for St Kilda and his articles consistently display that.

[st.byron]

If the Saints get pick 32 from the Bulldogs for Josh Bruce, who wants to be traded even though the Saints maintain he is a required player, then I’d on-trade that pick for Ryder. Bruce and Ryder have about the same trade worth given the value they will offer their new clubs.

While the article is generally an accurate read, I strongly disagree with this part.

Ryder is on his last legs and is only worth a late pick. He is not the player he was. I would have serious doubts about how good he will be in the second year of his deal.

Bruce is in his prime years, and is perfectly timed with the Dogs pushing for Top$ in the next several seasons.
I also believe that Bruce will gain a trade value of more than 32.

Bruce is being recruited to be a strong part of the Doggies push. Ryder is more of "filler".

Completely agree sRr. What a crock. Bruce and Ryder have the same value....pfffft.....
Ryder is more like a fourth round pick in the 60's. Bruce is def worth more than 32. Around pick 20 would be more like it for Bruce.

[To the top]

“26 so just entering the prime of his career”

Buckenara should restrict his comments to sides he is involved with not commenting on sides he has no association with and limited knowledge of

[CURLY]

Tim Membrey is 100% A Grade in his position.

Also Jack Steele and Billings are minimum B Grade.

[evertonfc]

Buckenara has little or no respect for St Kilda and his articles consistently display that.

Precisely. One of a growing number - Like David King and Terry Wallace - who are constantly trying to undermine and destabilise the club.

To be fair, we have a terrible management who rarely stands up for the club.

[evertonfc]

Buckenara has little or no respect for St Kilda and his articles consistently display that.

Precisely. One of a growing number - Like David King and Terry Wallace - who are constantly trying to undermine and destabilise the club.

To be fair, we have a terrible management who rarely stands up for the club.

[skeptic]

Meh

Typical Herald Scum article. As SCS said, little insight with some views just plain wrong / bizarre

And ppl pay money for this

[Rubyjo]

Gresh, hunter, Marshall, Steele, Ross, Membrey, Bruce.. All B graders

[MC Gusto]

Harsh but fair

Whilst I don’t agree with his trading summary I reckon his list analysis is the wake up call a lot of us need. We do overrate our players - it’s natural to do so - but we finished 14th for a reason...

[degruch]

Thank God Buckenara isn't anywhere near our list manager.

His strategy for the coming two weeks:

- Pay overs for Hill
- Pay overs for Jones
- Take way unders for Bruce
- Take unbelievable unders for Steven

Oh and btw, here's a few cliches about players who aren't stars and never will be.

Then he wonders why our list is in such a bad spot.

I can't stand this sort of cheap analysis. I've always had great suspicions that he's one of those types who talks a good game, but...well, you know the rest. Makes me want to tear my hair out.

FWIW, he's the only wannabe recruiter who didn't rate Connor Rozee as a top 10 last year.

Not to mention pick #32 for Ryder...a 27yo 50-goal-a-year key forward as a straight swap for a 32 year old injury prone ruckman? Does Ryder even have a signed contract for next year? Because Bruce does. Honestly, we've had a rough 8-9 years or so, but I'm not sure why the media thinks we're completely stupid.

[DJ Higgins]

he did make some good points to be fair, especially praising rowan Marshall and getting ratten. i agree we have no elites and we do have a lot of c grade talent. The Ryder call was wrong re Bruce and we will need our new recruits to lift our whole team.

only 6 months to go

[saint6709]

Thank God Buckenara isn't anywhere near our list manager.

His strategy for the coming two weeks:

- Pay overs for Hill
- Pay overs for Jones
- Take way unders for Bruce
- Take unbelievable unders for Steven

Oh and btw, here's a few cliches about players who aren't stars and never will be.

Then he wonders why our list is in such a bad spot.

I can't stand this sort of cheap analysis. I've always had great suspicions that he's one of those types who talks a good game, but...well, you know the rest. Makes me want to tear my hair out.

FWIW, he's the only wannabe recruiter who didn't rate Connor Rozee as a top 10 last year.

I found it entertaining - it made me laugh which I think is nice

[SaintPav]

Then he has us making 6th next year.

Weird.

[B.M]

His analysis is ok, we do have way too many C Graders

But his trade comments are horrid!

Gresham?

[Joffa Burns]

I stopped reading at giving #32 for Paddy Ryder

Buckenara is still bitter about being sacked by the Hawks.

#32 for Ryder FFS, that’s his age not what you trade fir him.

Watch Ryder become our #1 ruck lumbering around getting Longer like numbers as they turn Marshall into a key forward stalling his development.

[barneyboyz]

He is right about us over rating the list.
DMac on a 3 year extension is one of the bizarre decisions in AFL history.
No A list or B+ list players
Would have thought a fit Hannaberry would be B+, as well as Billings. But then again, maybe it's better to be a hard marker.

Ratts would have to have something in mind re DMac?, it was an very interesting signing. I like him though and he clearly has a good work ethic

[Saintmatt]

He is right about us over rating the list.
DMac on a 3 year extension is one of the bizarre decisions in AFL history.
No A list or B+ list players
Would have thought a fit Hannaberry would be B+, as well as Billings. But then again, maybe it's better to be a hard marker.

Ratts would have to have something in mind re DMac?, it was an very interesting signing. I like him though and he clearly has a good work ethic

I don't think he's thinking what you're expecting. McKenzie was the first player dropped when Ratten took over and didn't play in the Seniors thereafter. I hope Ratten sees what a lot of ppl see - that he bloody average with ball in hand.