Another one for the lost dogs home

[saynta]

From herald sun .com

"DOUGAL HOWARD

Howard has spoken to Essendon, St Kilda, North Melbourne …

"I think Dougs played the first half of the year as a defender, and the second half of the year as a forward. He's a contracted player for us … and I think he's got more chance for us as a forward.

"He's got to work out what he wants from his own career.

"Throughout the trade period there's the opportunity for us to look at different things we can do.

"We want players to be at our club who want to be at our club.

"He's contracted long-term and I don't see any reason why that would change, but he's got some decisions to make about where he wants to play.

"We have to make decisions now that are in the best interests of our club in the short and long term and we're a pretty pragmatic club – if things need to get done we generally get them done."

[Leo.J]

https://afltables.com/afl/stats/players ... oward.html

He look pretty handy...apparently led the league in 1%ers in 2018.

[B.M]

He’s a GOP

[amusingname]

He’s a GOP

Marto, with all due respect, who do you actually want the club to recruit and/or what do you want them to do? every person (possibly with the exception of Hill) who there has the slightest of rumours about you seem to have a negative or in this case somewhat lukewarm opinion of?

I understand that you think the club has made bad choices in the past and also don't want to trade Steven or Bruce, but as they are now either already made or in the case of the current players, somewhat out of our hands (Steven - mental health, Bruce - maybe made up his mind to leave), what do you think the club should be doing going forward?

[To the top]

So BM, what side would St Kilda have had on the park for the final Round of 2019 if it had accepted your selections?

And, given you are such an all knowing Guru, how come you are on this site and not in the gainful employment of an AFL Club heading up their recruitment department?

The process to Drafting any player is exhaustive

So perhaps, just perhaps, you can detail your processes so we are all educated as to why you are the ultimate know it all Guru

[gringo]

So BM, what side would St Kilda have had on the park for the final Round of 2019 if it had accepted your selections?

And, given you are such an all knowing Guru, how come you are on this site and not in the gainful employment of an AFL Club heading up their recruitment department?

The process to Drafting any player is exhaustive

So perhaps, just perhaps, you can detail your processes so we are all educated as to why you are the ultimate know it all Guru

I don't want to speak for BM but Dougal Howard is a classic GOP. Averages under 12 possessions a game, 4 marks etc. He's big solid backman and can swing forward but he's 24 so potentially still has growth left like Acres does. We are 8 years into a rebuild and losing our one star and a top 10 player in Bruce. Apart from Hill not one of the players we are bring in is going to be a definite top 10 player.

It sounds like GC are still talking about King with us but want mature players. I imagine it's Billings and Gresham types not Acres and Mc Kenzie. We seem obsessed with rebuilding around him despite not really needing him. If he was Harris Andrews who looks a much more certain star or even Eric Hipwood who is much more advanced most fans would think we were crazy talking about such things.

I used to be a positive poster here in the old days. I'm in my 40s and have pretty much turned into Big Mart now. I can't see past the stupid things we do these days. I feel like there is an obvious path and we refuse to take it as a club. It feels like having a drug addicted child that you love but they make you want to smash your head into a wall in frustration.

[B.M]

I am very positive, when I hear something worth being positive about?

Hill is a positive... he is what we NEED.

Who do I want the club to recruit?
Well, to become a quality team, you need quality players or players you NEED to get better... not just players because they are available or willing to come to StK. They need to be able to make the team better. Bit like the Kent recruitment last season, he was available, he wanted to come, but seriously, what was the point of that, a C Grade player, how does that help you become better? I’d rather try a rookie, who may become a better player, if not, try another kid... look for quality. Don’t bring in GOPs other teams get rid of unless they fulfil a specific need. Do we need a GOP key defender. We have six key defenders on our list, so NO.

TTT
Can’t remember calling myself a guru, please indicate where I stated that... but what I do have, like you, is a right to express an opinion. You don’t have to agree or like it, in fact I don’t care if you completely disagree.
I support the club, but don’t support what I think are stupid decisions, and will comment on them as I see fit, as I did in 2006, 2009 and 2014. My opinions weren’t popular then either, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t correct either.
But what I do think is that instead of playing the man, as you do with snide remarks (which I find quite cowardly when done in anonymity online) I think you should argue the point?!

How about this, how about you actually give you opinion on trades rather than your opinion of me?
I’ll give you mine, and we’ll revisit this time next year.

Hill - Good get, classy and exactly what we need. Would like to split 6 into 11 &15 and give 11, but would also do 6 if necessary.
Ryder - Dumb
Bruce for 32 - plain stupid! If we got a solid B Grade power forward with pick 32 who played 100 games we’d be more than happy, well that’s what we are giving up.
Sam Gray - He is 27 and no different or better than the 6 small forwards we currently have
Zac Jones - Poor mans replacement for Jack, for pick 30 something I’d do, as he has pace and wins the footy, but he’s no gun.
Dougal - a GOP key defender. We have six on our list. Unless we are offloading Jake, what’s the point, really. He’s not as good as Jake, so how does that improve us?
Masten - You’re joking
Ben King - won’t get him 2020. I’d try though. The King Twins would be the pillars we could build a team around. The longer he stays at GC the harder it will be to get him.

For all our great decision making At Moorabbin

Which teams are we ahead of, as far as building a premiership list?

[To the top]

I am one of those who believes that the standard of those playing in the AFL has diminished over time

These days players are Drafted direct from the Under 18 Competitions - and can line up with AFL sides in Round 1 of the upcoming season

They are kids.

To press the point, the Under 18 (were Under 19 and Under 17 in the SANFL) Competitions in the WAFL and the SANFL see very few of those Drafted playing at League or Seconds levels with their home Clubs (there are some exceptions but they are few and far between) so these kids were not considered at Senior levels but debut in the AFL in Round 1 of the following season

The days of recruiting the Platten's, Bradley's, Cable's, Farmer's et al are no more.

You now Draft kids from the Under 18 Competitions - where they play against players of the same age.

So, for all the work done, there are "misses" with players Drafted.

Because they are kids - never having played in Senior competitions (except for a few from SA and WA).

Hence Drafting is what it is - there are no guarantees.

There were no guarantees when , in my day, the likes of Ebert, Cornes and Davies came to the VFL for one season very late in their careers - and were GOP's despite their reputations including forged in Interstate games.

So it is easy to be critical with the benefit of hindsight.

[Vazelos]

Hill is exactly what we need....
Recruiting is about what the list needs as much as the quality of player.
Hill is more important to St Kilda than possibly another team because we lack line breakers with speed and class. Saying that that type of player is very important to any team they are rare.

Bruce is clearly making way for Max King who is being touted as the next big thing at our club.
There is an element of risk involved but Bruce has currency now and he would clear up some salary cap space.
No doubt Marshall breaking out this year has made this decision more plausible, he will play up front with Ryder alternating and Marshall is another super star.
Clearing out Jack Steven who is a mess off the ground is something almost being forced on us
unfortunately.
Several people inside the club are saying big things on Jack Bytel he is hard as nails with a nice left foot he looks like he will be making inroads in to the team sooner rather than later.
Zak Jones again offers hardness and speed he is not an A lister but it’s what we need to balance out the one paced mids we have currently.
Ryder gives us back up to allow Marshall time up Forward and support on the Ruck for 2 years until we find a longer term replacement.
It allows Membrey to play on the 3 Rd Defender where he could do some damage.
Marshall/Ryder, King and Membrey has a good balance up Forward.
Sam Gray is decent but I’m a bit perplexed on what we will do with all the small forwards we have:
Lonie, Parker, Long, Kent and Young.
Any of those long term viable?
Gresham also plays up there at times.
Ben King is a gift for us we don’t get access to elite talents like that very often it’s like a Father son opportunity where we have never had any luck with.
Twin brother, bayside boys. Saints Family you just have to capitalise.
Next draft apparently is made up of academy and father son picks so it’s a good time to trade out our top picks for him.
If we bring in Hill Jones Ryder and maybe one more with Max King and Jack Bytel coming in as 20 year olds we are looking better.
It’s not just about 2020 it’s the next 3/5 years and who can play in a side that can challenge for a premiership.

[Brunswicksainter]

Since 2010, Sydney 2012 are the only premiership side to have recruited more than one fringe player from a club outside the top 4 in the years preceding their flag. We are linked to at least 3 in this trade period thus far.

[The Barometer]

I am very positive, when I hear something worth being positive about?

Hill is a positive... he is what we NEED.

Who do I want the club to recruit?
Well, to become a quality team, you need quality players or players you NEED to get better... not just players because they are available or willing to come to StK. They need to be able to make the team better. Bit like the Kent recruitment last season, he was available, he wanted to come, but seriously, what was the point of that, a C Grade player, how does that help you become better? I’d rather try a rookie, who may become a better player, if not, try another kid... look for quality. Don’t bring in GOPs other teams get rid of unless they fulfil a specific need. Do we need a GOP key defender. We have six key defenders on our list, so NO.

TTT
Can’t remember calling myself a guru, please indicate where I stated that... but what I do have, like you, is a right to express an opinion. You don’t have to agree or like it, in fact I don’t care if you completely disagree.
I support the club, but don’t support what I think are stupid decisions, and will comment on them as I see fit, as I did in 2006, 2009 and 2014. My opinions weren’t popular then either, but that doesn’t mean they weren’t correct either.
But what I do think is that instead of playing the man, as you do with snide remarks (which I find quite cowardly when done in anonymity online) I think you should argue the point?!

How about this, how about you actually give you opinion on trades rather than your opinion of me?
I’ll give you mine, and we’ll revisit this time next year.

Hill - Good get, classy and exactly what we need. Would like to split 6 into 11 &15 and give 11, but would also do 6 if necessary.
Ryder - Dumb
Bruce for 32 - plain stupid! If we got a solid B Grade power forward with pick 32 who played 100 games we’d be more than happy, well that’s what we are giving up.
Sam Gray - He is 27 and no different or better than the 6 small forwards we currently have
Zac Jones - Poor mans replacement for Jack, for pick 30 something I’d do, as he has pace and wins the footy, but he’s no gun.
Dougal - a GOP key defender. We have six on our list. Unless we are offloading Jake, what’s the point, really. He’s not as good as Jake, so how does that improve us?
Masten - You’re joking
Ben King - won’t get him 2020. I’d try though. The King Twins would be the pillars we could build a team around. The longer he stays at GC the harder it will be to get him.

For all our great decision making At Moorabbin

Which teams are we ahead of, as far as building a premiership list?

Still trying to understand why you think Ryder would be a dumb trade? We only have Marshall and the basketballer on our list. who do you suggest as an alternative to Ryder that is available, will cost little in trade or $?

Hill straight for 6 would be dumb. Definitely want something back.

[barneyboyz]

Hill is exactly what we need....
Recruiting is about what the list needs as much as the quality of player.
Hill is more important to St Kilda than possibly another team because we lack line breakers with speed and class. Saying that that type of player is very important to any team they are rare.

Bruce is clearly making way for Max King who is being touted as the next big thing at our club.
There is an element of risk involved but Bruce has currency now and he would clear up some salary cap space.
No doubt Marshall breaking out this year has made this decision more plausible, he will play up front with Ryder alternating and Marshall is another super star.
Clearing out Jack Steven who is a mess off the ground is something almost being forced on us
unfortunately.
Several people inside the club are saying big things on Jack Bytel he is hard as nails with a nice left foot he looks like he will be making inroads in to the team sooner rather than later.
Zak Jones again offers hardness and speed he is not an A lister but it’s what we need to balance out the one paced mids we have currently.
Ryder gives us back up to allow Marshall time up Forward and support on the Ruck for 2 years until we find a longer term replacement.
It allows Membrey to play on the 3 Rd Defender where he could do some damage.
Marshall/Ryder, King and Membrey has a good balance up Forward.
Sam Gray is decent but I’m a bit perplexed on what we will do with all the small forwards we have:
Lonie, Parker, Long, Kent and Young.
Any of those long term viable?
Gresham also plays up there at times.
Ben King is a gift for us we don’t get access to elite talents like that very often it’s like a Father son opportunity where we have never had any luck with.
Twin brother, bayside boys. Saints Family you just have to capitalise.
Next draft apparently is made up of academy and father son picks so it’s a good time to trade out our top picks for him.
If we bring in Hill Jones Ryder and maybe one more with Max King and Jack Bytel coming in as 20 year olds we are looking better.
It’s not just about 2020 it’s the next 3/5 years and who can play in a side that can challenge for a premiership.

Well said. I think right here and now Ben King is the one we most absolutely need to get, whether it's this year or next, and this is because most other players being discussed, most likely will not be there in our next genuine look at a flag.

Nick Riewoldt and Kosi were at the club nigh on 10 years before they had a proper crack at it. I know it's difficult to compare, but the King brothers could be Nick and Kosi

We might have to give them Gresh and Billings, but it simply has to be done. They should be our plan now with Marshall, Clark, Coff and Bytel Etc.

[gringo]

Hill is exactly what we need....
Recruiting is about what the list needs as much as the quality of player.
Hill is more important to St Kilda than possibly another team because we lack line breakers with speed and class. Saying that that type of player is very important to any team they are rare.

Bruce is clearly making way for Max King who is being touted as the next big thing at our club.
There is an element of risk involved but Bruce has currency now and he would clear up some salary cap space.
No doubt Marshall breaking out this year has made this decision more plausible, he will play up front with Ryder alternating and Marshall is another super star.
Clearing out Jack Steven who is a mess off the ground is something almost being forced on us
unfortunately.
Several people inside the club are saying big things on Jack Bytel he is hard as nails with a nice left foot he looks like he will be making inroads in to the team sooner rather than later.
Zak Jones again offers hardness and speed he is not an A lister but it’s what we need to balance out the one paced mids we have currently.
Ryder gives us back up to allow Marshall time up Forward and support on the Ruck for 2 years until we find a longer term replacement.
It allows Membrey to play on the 3 Rd Defender where he could do some damage.
Marshall/Ryder, King and Membrey has a good balance up Forward.
Sam Gray is decent but I’m a bit perplexed on what we will do with all the small forwards we have:
Lonie, Parker, Long, Kent and Young.
Any of those long term viable?
Gresham also plays up there at times.
Ben King is a gift for us we don’t get access to elite talents like that very often it’s like a Father son opportunity where we have never had any luck with.
Twin brother, bayside boys. Saints Family you just have to capitalise.
Next draft apparently is made up of academy and father son picks so it’s a good time to trade out our top picks for him.
If we bring in Hill Jones Ryder and maybe one more with Max King and Jack Bytel coming in as 20 year olds we are looking better.
It’s not just about 2020 it’s the next 3/5 years and who can play in a side that can challenge for a premiership.

Well said. I think right here and now Ben King is the one we most absolutely need to get, whether it's this year or next, and this is because most other players being discussed, most likely will not be there in our next genuine look at a flag.

Nick Riewoldt and Kosi were at the club nigh on 10 years before they had a proper crack at it. I know it's difficult to compare, but the King brothers could be Nick and Kosi

We might have to give them Gresh and Billings, but it simply has to be done. They should be our plan now with Marshall, Clark, Coff and Bytel Etc.

Kosi never quite got to where he might have. I would probably want to compare him to G Train if we are paying up big for him. Either way having the best tall forward in the comp won't win you games if your midfield is crap. Imagine if we gave away a young Lenny for G train? Would we have been a better side? Ben Brown is always a few goals off a Coleman and even with Jarrad Waite who was also a gun forward they weren't a top 8 side in the last couple of years. A list needs 22 players with a high percentage of quality players. If you keep taking a good one out and putting a good one in you aren't going to get better enough.

It's why I can't work out why we are taking so many average players this year. Surely we would be better playing youth and adding to their pool.