Bruce Requests trade to Dogs

[BarryGrogan]

I never suggested playing in Tassie would change our on-field position.

I suggested it wouldn't make a difference. You responded to me.

[Ghost Like]

You think Barry that Hawthorn and North would be there if it didn’t make a difference financially?

And Hawthorn get 500k per game in Tas, not 500k per year.

And 18 000 interstate members pay $80-$180 per year at Hawthorn

Plus they are sponsored by tourism Tasmania.

Hawthorn has benefited hugely from Tasmania, and we made a huge mistake turning our back on Tassie.

Spot on B.M. & also Joffa. I think alot of people liked the idea of being linked to Tassie & we had the support there. Sadly one person's ego, that he (we) was too good to bother with them - very short sighted & combined with moving to Seaford because of half a dozen pokies has been very damaging over the past two decades.

[BarryGrogan]

You think Barry that Hawthorn and North would be there if it didn’t make a difference financially?

And Hawthorn get 500k per game in Tas, not 500k per year.

And 18 000 interstate members pay $80-$180 per year at Hawthorn

Plus they are sponsored by tourism Tasmania.

Hawthorn has benefited hugely from Tasmania, and we made a huge mistake turning our back on Tassie.
You can actually admit that now, with the benefit of hindsight or you can sound stupid I suppose?!

Playing in China makes a difference financially.


Besides, I reckon quite a few Saints fans will look back on the decision to leave Tassie as a masterstroke when the AFL are picking the club to relocate there.


How many members did we have in Tassie?

[B.M]

Serious question, and again off topic, sorry, but

Why did it not hurt or was such a big deal to Hawthorn and Essendon when they moved their training bases?

When we moved 30 mins down the road to a location still bayside, from a run down dump to a new facility still in the bayside region?

It was a training oval, after all, not a home ground. The actual ground itself is far better than the oval at Moorabbin

Don’t get me wrong, very glad to be back at Moorabbin in a newer and larger facility. But was it really that detrimental on performance where we trained, and why does it not impact at other clubs who have left their so called spiritual homes?

[The Fireman]

Serious question, and again off topic, sorry, but

Why did it not hurt or was such a big deal to Hawthorn and Essendon when they moved their training bases?

When we moved 30 mins down the road to a location still bayside, from a run down dump to a new facility still in the bayside region?

It was a training oval, after all, not a home ground. The actual ground itself is far better than the oval at Moorabbin

Don’t get me wrong, very glad to be back at Moorabbin in a newer and larger facility. But was it really that detrimental on performance where we trained, and why does it not impact at other clubs who have left their so called spiritual homes?

Obviously just another lame excuse for poor performance by "all"involved at the club.

[B.M]

If you don’t know the level of support StK have in northern Tasmania Barry, you are not really qualified to discuss the matter.

[BarryGrogan]

You think Barry that Hawthorn and North would be there if it didn’t make a difference financially?

And Hawthorn get 500k per game in Tas, not 500k per year.

And 18 000 interstate members pay $80-$180 per year at Hawthorn

Plus they are sponsored by tourism Tasmania.

Hawthorn has benefited hugely from Tasmania, and we made a huge mistake turning our back on Tassie.

Spot on B.M. & also Joffa. I think alot of people liked the idea of being linked to Tassie & we had the support there. Sadly one person's ego, that he (we) was too good to bother with them - very short sighted & combined with moving to Seaford because of half a dozen pokies has been very damaging over the past two decades.

The Seaford move is a different story entirely.


We were there with Hawthorn for 5 years though. How many members did we have?

When we were sharing it with Hawthorn, it was nowhere near as 'lucrative' as the subsequent arrangement became for Hawthorn once we left.

Citing Hawthorn's current numbers is misleading as we weren't, and wouldn't have had the same deal.


Do I care we left? No. Would I have cared if we stayed? No.

Do I think we'd be in a different position now if we stayed? No. We'd still suck.

So who cares?

[BarryGrogan]

If you don’t know the level of support StK have in northern Tasmania Barry, you are not really qualified to discuss the matter.

How many members did we have there in the 5 years we were there?

[Ghost Like]

Back to Bruce

Who takes his place as a 6’5” 100kg Forward with massive work rate in 2020?

Probably Marshall or Battle or someone else, I'll let you know after the trade period.

Let's face it, this time last year we had no idea Marshall could actually ruck. He's a terrific ball winning ruck, who can say he won't be a more impressive CHF?

I cannot believe how good Bruce has suddenly become. We cannot rate all our players this highly and still be a bottom 6 side, expecting to trade only who we don't rate.

How would you improve our list? I know you wanted a 2000 / 2001 clean out so you know we have a poor list, it is just sad we don't have the same currency or attraction as back then.

Surely good list management is about stockpiling talent. When you have too many good players and some get pushed out of the seniors you are in a god place. We seem have okay players and s*** players. We seem to have a new plan where you move out the okay players and bring in players who are no better and expect miracles to happen. Marshall not being planned on is not good management seeing we traded out best 22 ruckman last year. If the idea is to get rid of best 22 players because a miracle upgrade might be already here....well that seems like not a plan.

I mentioned Marshall as an example of being on our list and being given a go in a new position, not as a miracle of list management.

I agree gringo on your take of our list, what I'm asking is how it improves? We cannot hold on to the same players and expect improvement. We need to turn over the list & when you have no draft picks you have to move on players with currency you believe you can cover.

Our current best 22 is not Top 8, we need to trade, we need the draft, we need to stick to a plan of improving our disposal and our midfield in accordance with a game plan.

We don't have to accept the offers for Bruce & Steven if they are cr@p. It means they stay, a midfielder who doesn't want to be there & a key forward who wants another 4 years on the back of a good finish to 2019, whose manager obviously tested the market.

[B.M]

I think the move was not well received by players, therefore it became a problem.

I think we have a problem embracing something new, and enjoying the challenge, and are too quick to use it as an excuse for poor performance.

Seaford was not ideal, but it was better than Moorabbin at that point in time and was only a training base.

[Ghost Like]

The Seaford move is a different story entirely.


We were there with Hawthorn for 5 years though. How many members did we have?

When we were sharing it with Hawthorn, it was nowhere near as 'lucrative' as the subsequent arrangement became for Hawthorn once we left.

Citing Hawthorn's current numbers is misleading as we weren't, and wouldn't have had the same deal.


Do I care we left? No. Would I have cared if we stayed? No.

Do I think we'd be in a different position now if we stayed? No. We'd still suck.

So who cares?

No Baz, they are both examples of poor, knee jerk decision making without thought for the future. Something we seem to be very good at.

Who cares? I'd say we all do or else why are we writing, responding and discussing, arguing on this forum?

[BarryGrogan]

Serious question, and again off topic, sorry, but

Why did it not hurt or was such a big deal to Hawthorn and Essendon when they moved their training bases?

When we moved 30 mins down the road to a location still bayside, from a run down dump to a new facility still in the bayside region?

It was a training oval, after all, not a home ground. The actual ground itself is far better than the oval at Moorabbin

Don’t get me wrong, very glad to be back at Moorabbin in a newer and larger facility. But was it really that detrimental on performance where we trained, and why does it not impact at other clubs who have left their so called spiritual homes?

Supporter bases.

Simple.


The average Saints fan just doesn't really care that much about the footy. They don't hinge their lives on it.

Same as Melbourne.


But with the Richmonds, Essendons and Collingwoods of the world - it's a different story.

They're straight up losers who to them, footy is everything.


When we move to Seaford, it's a shithole. But no bigger shithole than Tullamarine or Dingley.

The differemce is that Saints fans don't really give a f***. Certainly not enough to create a groundswell of support.

If there isn't a groundswell of support - then the negative press wins out. And it becomes a failure by default.


It's why we couldn't get 50k to games when we were on top and playing in GFs, whilst the afore mentioned clubs get 50k when they're in the bottom 4.

We don't have a large supporter base, and our supporters have better things to do with their lives than be rabid for the footy.

We've always had a measly little cheersquad. Big clubs have enormous ones that you need to get a membership for! We just don't care as much.



And that's surely a good thing.

[BarryGrogan]

No Baz, they are both examples of poor, knee jerk decision making without thought for the future. Something we seem to be very good at.

Who cares? I'd say we all do or else why are we writing, responding and discussing, arguing on this forum?

I wouldn't specifically write on a forum or seek out a discussion about St Kilda leaving Tassie.

There's a topic on it, so I offered my opinion.

I don't care that we left, and wouldn't have cared if we didn't.

I don't think it would change our position at all.

[The Craw]

The Seaford move is a different story entirely.


We were there with Hawthorn for 5 years though. How many members did we have?

When we were sharing it with Hawthorn, it was nowhere near as 'lucrative' as the subsequent arrangement became for Hawthorn once we left.

Citing Hawthorn's current numbers is misleading as we weren't, and wouldn't have had the same deal.


Do I care we left? No. Would I have cared if we stayed? No.

Do I think we'd be in a different position now if we stayed? No. We'd still suck.

So who cares?

No Baz, they are both examples of poor, knee jerk decision making without thought for the future. Something we seem to be very good at.

Who cares? I'd say we all do or else why are we writing, responding and discussing, arguing on this forum?

The move was never meant to be Seaford ... it was supposed to be Frankston. The club was effectively conned by the Frankston council and had no other option but to move to Seaford as an alternative.

Tullamarine whilst not a great location has amazing facilities and has the full backing of the council.

Dingley may well be the biggest mistake Hawthorn have ever made.

[B.M]

Seaford is 3 minutes from Frankston.

Barry, if you think StK supporters aren’t passionate, you are delusional

The move just wasn’t sold o the players or supporters effectively enough... therefore wasn’t received well.

It was a reluctant move. So it was never going to work.

But hey, we are not qualified to discuss, having not played the game at the highest level?!

[The Craw]

Thats like comparing Heatherton to Moorabbin.

Big Difference between the two.

[BarryGrogan]

Barry, if you think StK supporters aren’t passionate, you are delusional

Some are.

As a whole though, we're not. To think otherwise is completely delusional.


They don't show up, don't travel, don't buy memberships, and drop off when we aren't winning.

It's a fact.


It's not a knock. It's a compliment if anything.

[saynta]

Ratten on Steven and Bruce.

From herald sun.com

"Saints won't block Steven's Geelong move
Alistair Paton

St Kilda coach Brett Ratten says the Saints are happy to trade Jack Steven to Geelong, but forward Josh Bruce might find it harder to get to the Western Bulldogs.

“For Jack to be in the best space he can be, if that means he has to move to Geelong, I think we’ll try and make that happen,” Ratten said on SEN.

“But if he wants to stay at St Kilda and that’s the best space for him, we’ll do that as well.

"This is more about the person. He's 29, he's got the rest of his life to live and if we can make the last part of his footy career as enjoyable as possible, I think that's something that we'd do."

The Cats and Saints need to negotiate a fair asking price for the four-time Trevor Barker Award winner, who has battled mental health issues and wants to move closer to his family in Lorne.

The Cats currently have picks 17 and 36 in the draft.

“We’re happy to maybe let him go, but we want something reasonable back for him," Ratten said.

But he said Bruce, who is contracted for one more season at Moorabbin, was a required player.

The Western Bulldogs have made a strong play for the goalkicker with a lucrative three or four-year deal well above what the Saints are believed to be prepared to offer.

But Ratten said Bruce "hasn't come to us and said that he's out".

“At the moment he’s contracted and we see him playing at the Saints,” Ratten told SEN.

“He kicked 36 goals; he was fifth in contested marks in the competition – they don’t grow on trees.

“The ability to mark the ball in congestion is so valuable now and he’s a very good player in that space. We see him playing in our forward line.”

Ratten said he was looking forward to welcoming Docker Brad Hill to the Saints, declaring the wingman is a player now than when he won two premierships at Hawthorn."

[SaintPav]

Thank god.

[fugazi]

In the Age Gallagher is asking for an early second rounder for Steven. Says we are willing to help out Steven but expect a decent trade back for a star of the club.

[fugazi]

If we did no more than recruit Hill, trade out Steven for a second rounder, Newnes for a third rounder. I would be happy.

[saynta]

In the Age Gallagher is asking for an early second rounder for Steven. Says we are willing to help out Steven but expect a decent trade back for a star of the club.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the ... 52wgv.html


"St Kilda have declared they won't be handing Jack Steven to Geelong for nothing, despite the two clubs already starting negotiations over a potential trade.

Steven, who took time away from football in 2019 to deal with mental health issues, grew up in Lorne and wants to be closer to family and friends as he looks to restart his career at a club close to the surf coast.
Lloyd unleashes spray on Bombers

The Saints are set to ask for a pick in the 20s in exchange for Steven, but the Cats believe they can offer a late pick and still get the trade done.

"If Jack wants to be traded, we'll listen," Saints list manager James Gallagher told The Age.

"But he's been a champion of our club for 10 years and he still has a few years of good football in him, so it doesn't make sense to hand him over to Geelong for nothing.

"He's had a tough 12 months and if he's going to be his happiest and healthiest elsewhere then we'll have that conversation, but we need to do what's best for the club as well."

Geelong list manager Stephen Wells confirmed on SEN radio that the Cats had met Steven and said the Saints were open to trading him.

"The way it is headed there is a good chance Jack will be at Geelong," Wells said.

"I think he wants to come to Geelong, I'm pretty sure of that.

"We've spoken to the Saints, we can't do anything really until trade week. The Saints have been very good in considering Jack's mental-health situation, where he had to miss some games this year and if it turns out we can do a satisfactory deal for all concerned then ... I think the Saints have been public in saying that they'd like to help Jack."

Wells and his counterpart list manager Gallagher will meet in the coming days at the draft combine to further their negotiations.
The Cats are hopeful they will land Jack Steven during trade period.

The Cats are hopeful they will land Jack Steven during trade period.Credit:AAP

Geelong do not have a pick in the 20s, with their second-round pick at 36, and will try to get the deal done for their third-round selection - currently 54.

Geelong hold picks 17, 36, 54 and 90 heading into this year's draft and will be mainly seeking selections when, as appears inevitable, midfield star Tim Kelly requests a trade home to Western Australia.

The Cats would prefer to deal with Fremantle as they have greater collateral than West Coast and are also less likely to contend for the premiership, although the All-Australian midfielder is expected to again nominate the Eagles as his preferred destination.

Wells said Kelly's management had told the Cats to "prepare as if he is going to be requesting a trade" but they had not been officially told and they had held very preliminary talks with Eagles and Dockers officials to see what might be on offer.

Wells also said there was a contract offer in front of dual Brownlow medallist and dual premiership Cat Gary Ablett jnr, for him to continue his career into its 19th season. Wells said he would be surprised if Ablett, 35, did not play on although he was yet to make a final decision.

He also said midfielder Scott Selwood was looking to begin a coaching career after being delisted from the Cats and that contracted midfielder Charlie Constable, who was starved of opportunities this season, would remain at Geelong in 2020.

[Joffa Burns]

#36 looks like a the best outcome at this point in time.
You'd assume cats would be tight on salary cap hence us topping up some of his wage.

I wonder if #17 and we pay half or more of his wage would be attractive?
We could probably afford the $ where Geelong couldn't and they might offset the $ with a lower pick.

We want the lowest pick and the money probably matters less at the moment.

[barneyboyz]

Let's consider a glass half full situation scenario: Bruce going creates a situation that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Marshall plays mostly in the forward line and kills it.

Plausible?

Or glass half empty, Marshall gets a year ending injury and a 32 year old Ryder has to carry ruck and forward. Membrey is triple teamed and King gets targeted and mentally crushed from the attention. We struggle to kick 40 points most games.

I hope we can rookie list a state league ruck.

Glass half full is always easier on the blood pressure

[shanegrambeau]

Serious question, and again off topic, sorry, but

Why did it not hurt or was such a big deal to Hawthorn and Essendon when they moved their training bases?

When we moved 30 mins down the road to a location still bayside, from a run down dump to a new facility still in the bayside region?

It was a training oval, after all, not a home ground. The actual ground itself is far better than the oval at Moorabbin

Don’t get me wrong, very glad to be back at Moorabbin in a newer and larger facility. But was it really that detrimental on performance where we trained, and why does it not impact at other clubs who have left their so called spiritual homes?

Supporter bases.

Simple.


The average Saints fan just doesn't really care that much about the footy. They don't hinge their lives on it.

Same as Melbourne.


But with the Richmonds, Essendons and Collingwoods of the world - it's a different story.

They're straight up losers who to them, footy is everything.


When we move to Seaford, it's a shithole. But no bigger shithole than Tullamarine or Dingley.

The differemce is that Saints fans don't really give a f***. Certainly not enough to create a groundswell of support.

If there isn't a groundswell of support - then the negative press wins out. And it becomes a failure by default.


It's why we couldn't get 50k to games when we were on top and playing in GFs, whilst the afore mentioned clubs get 50k when they're in the bottom 4.

We don't have a large supporter base, and our supporters have better things to do with their lives than be rabid for the footy.

We've always had a measly little cheersquad. Big clubs have enormous ones that you need to get a membership for! We just don't care as much.



And that's surely a good thing.

Fair enough Mr. Grogan.
But Saints fans DO like being Saints fans nonetheless. They might barely be able to name more than the names of two players, remember how many games we won, where we finished, the coaches name, but they identify with club, it’s identity, its history and its fragility is something they love and are attached to. And I think they would attend games and enjoy it...especially if it were closer to the central area of Melbourne..especially in St Kilda.

Moorabbin is/was a shithole, or let’s just say, it is so far away from the cosmos of St Kilda culturally that it’s like comparing a Smokey but gorgeous 50s Lancia motorcar to an HQ Belmont. Our boomtimes at Moorabbin just corresponded nicely with a demographic and geographical shifts of the 60s and 70s but it was definitely a bogans backyard by the late 70s and we would have won fewer new fans after the 80s.

Now Seaford will be used as a convenient excuse but I do think Tullamarine and Hawthorn thing might be different. The Hawks have been middling since they went to Waverley. Dingley isn’t as far as Seaford...and the backblocks of Seaford, down the Wells road and back freeway is not anyone’s idea of of bayside. It is a shithole too. And so far. (I will probably retire in a caravan park there the rate I am going and for saying this)

Moorabbin now is just dullsville, nothing here nor there. So for the time being, it’s better than Seaford, but ultimately, we just have to move North and somewhere closer to town.

I really think that will make Jack Steven and Josh Bruce types more attracted. We will never be big, but we have to stay a family, as dysfunctional as it is.