Bruce Requests trade to Dogs

[To the top]

Richmond recruited Weller from St Kilda

And who else from where?

If you are a Cartel Club because you play at the MCG and have a membership of 100,000 you enjoy advantages certain other Clubs do not enjoy

The revenue these Clubs enjoy including because of scheduling and attraction to sponsors goes somewhere - it doesn’t just sit in a bank account

Then there is the attraction to players so advantages under Free Agency etc etc

So we have an evolving EPL competition in my view - this because of compromises we see in respect to all “equalisation rules”

Money talks - including the money and the source of that money which finishes up in the AFL’s coffers

[SaintPav]

Richmond recruited Weller from St Kilda

And who else from where?

If you are a Cartel Club because you play at the MCG and have a membership of 100,000 you enjoy advantages certain other Clubs do not enjoy

The revenue these Clubs enjoy including because of scheduling and attraction to sponsors goes somewhere - it doesn’t just sit in a bank account

Then there is the attraction to players so advantages under Free Agency etc etc

So we have an evolving EPL competition in my view - this because of compromises we see in respect to all “equalisation rules”

Money talks - including the money and the source of that money which finishes up in the AFL’s coffers

The Gold Coast mercenary

[BarryGrogan]

Maybe this rebuild will be better than the last one

Where every decision was supposedly correct last time?!

How was every decision right last time???

Regardless, with compromised drafts a rebuild was never going to go well for us.

I suspect we will make poor decisions again, and this is the first of them... I have next to no confidence on those running the club.

Every aspect of Richmond is flying... every aspect of StK is poor.

Just the way it is.

I have faith in those at the club. They know far about the caper than I do. They have inside knowledge and access to detailed information and analytics beyond what I do.

I'm just a flog on a keyboard who thinks he knows everything, based on what he sees on a TV once a week.

That's not to say they will get everything right.

But Ratten knows what he needs. He has a plan, and knows how to execute it. That much I do trust.

Whether his plan is a good one, and whether or not he's capable of executing it, are a different story.


Getting Hill is a good start. The fact that Ryder had to come on minimum wage in order for that happen, isn't the end of the world.

[gringo]

On Bigfooty one of the ITKs reckons we are resetting for 2021 and expect a drop off or stagnate next year.

The scary thing is we are pretty close to a second full rebuild already. From our 2013 list we should have Geary, Roberton, Ross and Webster left after this trade period.

That was 2 years into rebuild one. Should be 11 or 12 from 2015 out of 38 senior listed players after trades.

Those include Acres, Dunstan, Sinclair and Lonie who are still potentially not going to make it beyond the next couple of seasons and players like Geary who are close to the end and Roberton who is still potentially not going to be able to play again.

There are only 17 out of 34 players potentially left from 2017 probably after this season. We have been churning through players.

The lack of stability alone probably means we take a while to gel into an actual team. We really need some of the listed players to step up from okay to excellent to progress because with pick 5 looking likely to go in the Hill trade and Bruce compo likely to go into getting our trade targets and Ben King potentially taking a couple of firsts in the next 2 years we will have less access to high end kids.

[Saintmatt]

Battle Austin Coffield
Clark Carlisle Roberton
Billings Acres Hill
Gresham Marshall Long
Membrey King Steven
Ryder Steele Hannebery
Ross Dunstan Bytel Wilkie

That excludes McCartin who remains on our List and includes Steven who is not being reported as requesting a Trade to date

So why offer that we are at the point of needing to start another rebuild?

To me we have a side which is starting to come together - still deficiencies so another skilled ball carrier would be invaluable adding the required potency to our mid field and correcting Ross, Steele and Dunstan who do not challenge the score board

No Geary in there - good start. However, whilst you have Ross and Dunstan still ball butchering it forward we're so far away that we're on our way back. It's a midfielders' game and ours are pretty poor.

[BringBackMadDog]

Battle Austin Coffield
Clark Carlisle Roberton
Billings Acres Hill
Gresham Marshall Long
Membrey King Steven
Ryder Steele Hannebery
Ross Dunstan Bytel Wilkie

That excludes McCartin who remains on our List and includes Steven who is not being reported as requesting a Trade to date

So why offer that we are at the point of needing to start another rebuild?

To me we have a side which is starting to come together - still deficiencies so another skilled ball carrier would be invaluable adding the required potency to our mid field and correcting Ross, Steele and Dunstan who do not challenge the score board

No Geary in there - good start. However, whilst you have Ross and Dunstan still ball butchering it forward we're so far away that we're on our way back. It's a midfielders' game and ours are pretty poor.

anyone who thinks that Geary won't be in our side round 1 is kidding themselves. I expect him to be named captain again and play every game unless injured. I think we all forget how we got absolutely smashed by small/medium forwards when Geary went down.

[spert]

I suspect that Ratts doesn't rate Bruce as much as some Saints fans, plus a more mature player like Bruce who hasn't played finals and is in a lowly team, will look at any opportunity offered to play in finals in the near future, and it usually means changing clubs. We will still be middle of the pack on the ladder until we sort the playing list out, to fit the vision that Ratts clearly has to build a team. Bruce and Steven in top form ideally are required, but it's now a case of let's move on to the next phase.

[ss1986]

I suspect that Ratts doesn't rate Bruce as much as some Saints fans, plus a more mature player like Bruce who hasn't played finals and is in a lowly team, will look at any opportunity offered to play in finals in the near future, and it usually means changing clubs. We will still be middle of the pack on the ladder until we sort the playing list out, to fit the vision that Ratts clearly has to build a team. Bruce and Steven in top form ideally are required, but it's now a case of let's move on to the next phase.

This is why Ratts will be a success. He calls a spade a spade.

Josh Bruce is one of the most overrated footballers we have, by our own supporter base. He is a slightly better than average footballer. Nothing more. And slightly better than average footballers are not the difference between winning a flag or not.

Trade bait if ever I've seen it - wants out, so.... thank you for your service, see you later.

[gringo]

I suspect that Ratts doesn't rate Bruce as much as some Saints fans, plus a more mature player like Bruce who hasn't played finals and is in a lowly team, will look at any opportunity offered to play in finals in the near future, and it usually means changing clubs. We will still be middle of the pack on the ladder until we sort the playing list out, to fit the vision that Ratts clearly has to build a team. Bruce and Steven in top form ideally are required, but it's now a case of let's move on to the next phase.

This is why Ratts will be a success. He calls a spade a spade.

Josh Bruce is one of the most overrated footballers we have, by our own supporter base. He is a slightly better than average footballer. Nothing more. And slightly better than average footballers are not the difference between winning a flag or not.

Trade bait if ever I've seen it - wants out, so.... thank you for your service, see you later.

He finished 17th on the goal kicking ladder after plenty above him played finals and more games. Also played back up ruck and works right up the field. In his last season as a true stay in the goal square FF he kicked over 50. Was on top of the contested marking stat in the AFL after the H and A season. Membrey is slightly above him but only by a few goals. It will mean members takes the best defender every week now and who ever plays on Max King will be more than likely a very good defender like Grimes. It seems a bizarre decision to me and when we don't have a lot of senior players makes even less sense.

Paddy Ryder is a good player but he's pretty old already and only a fill in for a year or two. Bruce is a risky gamble for what sounds like a straight swap of Jones or a pick in the 30s according to trade radio.

[Saintmatt]

Battle Austin Coffield
Clark Carlisle Roberton
Billings Acres Hill
Gresham Marshall Long
Membrey King Steven
Ryder Steele Hannebery
Ross Dunstan Bytel Wilkie

That excludes McCartin who remains on our List and includes Steven who is not being reported as requesting a Trade to date

So why offer that we are at the point of needing to start another rebuild?

To me we have a side which is starting to come together - still deficiencies so another skilled ball carrier would be invaluable adding the required potency to our mid field and correcting Ross, Steele and Dunstan who do not challenge the score board

No Geary in there - good start. However, whilst you have Ross and Dunstan still ball butchering it forward we're so far away that we're on our way back. It's a midfielders' game and ours are pretty poor.

anyone who thinks that Geary won't be in our side round 1 is kidding themselves. I expect him to be named captain again and play every game unless injured. I think we all forget how we got absolutely smashed by small/medium forwards when Geary went down.

Don't disagree. But Geary is a shut down player and that's about it. He's certainly awful with ball in hand and that's always negated a lot of the terrific work he does in stopping oppo small forwards. My point is that until all of the horrendous kicks are gone from the team - we're pushing sh!t uphill with a stick. If you're going to turn it over as much as we do then you're going to get scored heavily by the better teams. Look what the benchmark did to the next best team on Saturday.

[gringo]

Battle Austin Coffield
Clark Carlisle Roberton
Billings Acres Hill
Gresham Marshall Long
Membrey King Steven
Ryder Steele Hannebery
Ross Dunstan Bytel Wilkie

That excludes McCartin who remains on our List and includes Steven who is not being reported as requesting a Trade to date

So why offer that we are at the point of needing to start another rebuild?

To me we have a side which is starting to come together - still deficiencies so another skilled ball carrier would be invaluable adding the required potency to our mid field and correcting Ross, Steele and Dunstan who do not challenge the score board

No Geary in there - good start. However, whilst you have Ross and Dunstan still ball butchering it forward we're so far away that we're on our way back. It's a midfielders' game and ours are pretty poor.

anyone who thinks that Geary won't be in our side round 1 is kidding themselves. I expect him to be named captain again and play every game unless injured. I think we all forget how we got absolutely smashed by small/medium forwards when Geary went down.

Don't disagree. But Geary is a shut down player and that's about it. He's certainly awful with ball in hand and that's always negated a lot of the terrific work he does in stopping oppo small forwards. My point is that until all of the horrendous kicks are gone from the team - we're pushing sh!t uphill with a stick. If you're going to turn it over as much as we do then you're going to get scored heavily by the better teams. Look what the benchmark did to the next best team on Saturday.

I think Richmond are an average kicking team but run and overlap a lot to cover it. GWS are the best kicking team in the AFL, Geelong also use the ball by foot predominantly and well. What Richmond do well is isolate players by playing selfless footy.

[B.M]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

[The Fireman]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

I think they are on the right track this time...but it's ok B.M if we get a flag in the near future you can say you are glad you were wrong

[gringo]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

I'm a bit like you, I have been burnt so many times I have PTSD when ever we make a decision these days but at least there actually seems a better core of kids to build around now. I'm not sold on any of the footy department guys yet. personally I think most sides have rebuilt from down the bottom by drafting well. Melbourne did it as badly as anyone for years and turned it around (temporarily), Carlton rebuilt trying to fast track and stuffed it up, went back to drafting and got some stars. Same with Brisbane etc.

There aren't many corners that can be cut unfortunately, the best players come from high in the draft, the current best players at other clubs rarely leave their original clubs unless they are paid crippling amounts.

To me we are gambling instead of taking the hard road. It will either succeed or fail spectacularly. Lets just hope we finally have some smart operators in and a bit of luck falls our way.

[gringo]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

I think they are on the right track this time...but it's ok B.M if we get a flag in the near future you can say you are glad you were wrong

At least we seem to have some experienced operators from good systems. Finnis is a good operator on anything non footy related, I think he took his eye off the ball but seems to have pretty quickly realised how much the core business means to fans. They have done what you'd expect and found good operators. I'd still love to chase down an elite recruiter though. If you drafted as badly as any side in history keeping your 2IC as the new head is risky.

[Ghost Like]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

I think they are on the right track this time...but it's ok B.M if we get a flag in the near future you can say you are glad you were wrong

I don't remember saying we should turn our back on Tassie, I love Tassie and the Saints' rich history there but apparently I did.

I enjoy opinions by most, even yours B.M., but I don't enjoy being told what my opinions were so someone can feel good about themselves.

[Linton Lodger]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

I didn't support the Tassie nonsense. An invitation to be relocated permanently eventually. North Melbourne will end up in Tassie if Gold Coast don't. Great outcome for them?

[BarryGrogan]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

?

So the club shouldn't have been aiming for success??

[To the top]

In a competition of 18 Clubs, ONE side wins a premiership each year - and that Club needs a lot of things coming together, so luck plays a part.

You give yourself the best opportunity by consistently playing in September - so you need a List which can achieve this as the first step.

There are reasons why St Kilda has not played September football post Lyon - and to me that has to do with the demographic of the List and specifically because, post the retirements of Fisher, Dempster, Riewoldt and Montagna, we have had no class senior experience to shield the kids we have Drafted, the eldest of those kids now approaching just 100 games of experience.

In terms of experience introduced we have Carlisle and Hannebery, both of whom have had interrupted careers at St Kilda so far.

The side that I would like to see on the Park in Round 1 of 2020, with number of AFL games appended is:-

Battle (26) Austin (20) Coffield (18)
Roberton (128) Carlisle (134) Clartk (29)
Hill (?) Acres (75) Billings (107)
Long (30) Marshall (33) Membrey (92)
Gresham (95) King (0) Steven (183)
Ryder (?) Steele (78) Hannebery (213)

Dunstan (103) Ross (124) Bytel (0) Wilkie (22)

And that is the sum result of my summary. It also leads to the conclusion that we are in a re-build phase where the gaining of experience, so organic growth if you like, will produce a result in concert with the recruitment of the likes of Hill, Carlisle and Hanneberry.

And, to StMatt, yes, Dunstan and Ross are both on the Interchange for a reason - we can not have the 2 of them on the park at the one time, Dunstan more valuable because he is "in and under".

As I opined, we need them to both become "dangerous" mids, also hitting the scoreboard - and that is where another Hill would be welcome because we have Steele, Dunstan and Ross.

There was a reason, on kicking out, Geary was left unattended in a back pocket by opposition sides, wanting the ball in his hands.

And we obliged.

[BackFromUSA]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

Hang on. I thought walking out of Tassie was a horrible decision. I even rang the CEO to say so.

[Joffa Burns]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

Hang on. I thought walking out of Tassie was a horrible decision. I even rang the CEO to say so.

Me too, I didn’t call the CEO but thought it very short sighted at the time.

[saintsRrising]

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

Making up stuff again I see. Not everyone who was on Saintsational back then was in favour of Thomas pulling the Saints out of Tassie.

The majority backed the coach (as it was Thomas who did not like playing there), but to state that everyone did is just plain wrong.

[degruch]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

Hang on. I thought walking out of Tassie was a horrible decision. I even rang the CEO to say so.

Me too, I didn’t call the CEO but thought it very short sighted at the time.

I thought it was short sighted to go to Tassie in the first place.

[Joffa Burns]

So, contending by 2018 and premiership by 2020 with a sure fire blueprint. That was the garbage we were sold back in 2013. New coach, new list manager, new players it was going to be a journey towards success... what rot!

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

This will be another balls up, and the stupidity has already started.

Hang on. I thought walking out of Tassie was a horrible decision. I even rang the CEO to say so.

Me too, I didn’t call the CEO but thought it very short sighted at the time.

I thought it was short sighted to go to Tassie in the first place.

Not if you go to the Tamar valley for meat and King Island on the way home for local produce

[skeptic]

I don’t trust a damn thing the club does, haven’t done since they walked out on the Tassie deal (which every person on SS thought was the correct decision)

Making up stuff again I see. Not everyone who was on Saintsational back then was in favour of Thomas pulling the Saints out of Tassie.

The majority backed the coach (as it was Thomas who did not like playing there), but to state that everyone did is just plain wrong.

See this style of posting frustrates me ... there’s this real ‘I need to run SS forumites down’ as opposed to just sharing observations that has crept in over the years.
I remember that time... lot of ppl hated that decision at the time... but hey, make up your own narrative