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fugazi wrote: ↑Wed 25 Sep 2019 10:05pm
D Mac is pretty close to irrelevant for our side now.
How the hell did he get a 3 year contract?
Beggars belief really. A contract for 2020 would have been plenty.
Same with Joyce.
McKenzie was in the top 10 in the B & F in 2018 season playing only 13 games - was very good in the second half of the season. In 2019, imo he should have played a more attacking role, but often was a lock down defender, doesn't suit him, and he was beaten a few times. Courageous player, big tank, and quick, and I still think he could turn out to be a very good player in the right role.
He does make some spectacular clangers, but strangely his disposal efficiency is over 80%, kicking efficiency 74%, both quite a bit above Billings for example. Billings gets a lot more possessions of course. If he goes and gets a chance to play a role that suits him we may well rue his loss down the track. Maybe he in on the table because other clubs are interested - we certainly have to trade out to get those reported players in, with limited draft picks available.
Who cares about his kicking efficiency.
A lot of defenders have a high efficiency because moving the ball in the back half is comparatively easy. especially if you are conservative with ball in hand
Who cares about kicking efficiency? 18 clubs.
I agree stats can be misleading. However, as you mention defenders, Dmac's kicking efficiency is better than all the other smaller defenders with the exception of Savage. His overall disposal efficiency is the best of all. Not the be all and end all, but I think some posters just remember the clangers. We have plenty of hbf, and if we can get good value for him, fair enough, but I think some posters underrate him. As The Age says, there have been enquiries from other clubs.
johnnyrayflamingo wrote: ↑Wed 25 Sep 2019 8:28pm
I hope Ratten gets a couple of years to try turn DMac into a very good player. If it doesn't work, then trade him.
McKenzie was the first bloke dropped upon Ratts taking the reigns and did not play a single game thereafter. McKenzie won't play for St K against whilst Ratten is in charge. Not a bad thing too - he's a depth player at best
For years I have copped grief on here regarding my opinions on draftees we have selected regarding their positions. IE why so many half backs. Now we have too many GOPs who didn't get game time to improve due to the amount of similar players and our captain in that role. Be honest Geary should have been dropped several times due to poor games
Now if we can offload one or two then I say do it. Problem is they will need some value to warrant interest and I doubt dmac has much. I'd be more likely to shop Webster around. I am a big fan of Jimmy, I really am, but he would have more suitors than dmac imo
Last edited by DJ Higgins on Thu 26 Sep 2019 1:32pm, edited 1 time in total.
DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:17am
For years I have copoed grief on here regarding my opinions on draftees we have selected regarding their positions. IE why so many half backs. Now we have too many GOPs who didn't get game time to improve due to the amount of similar players and our captain in that role. Be honest Geary should have been dropped several times due to poor games
Now if we can offload one or two then I say do it. Problem is they will need some value to warrant interest and I doubt dmac has much. I'd be more likely to shop Webster around. I am a big fan of Jimmy, I really am, but he would have more suitors than dmac imo
I think you'll find that there are very, very few on our list whom we will entertain offers for if the price is right. Our List Management team are acutely aware of where the holes are and that you have to give a bit to hopefully get a lot. It's no coincidence that the addition of Gubby Allen has happened at precisely the time that our club is linked with nearly every reasonable quality player coming out of contract. Despite having so few picks and players to trade with. Why? Because the industry knows that he will make a deal happen. He doesn't try and get too cute - he's there to get a job done and achieve an outcome. Have a look at North - they've been trying to recruit everyone and anyone for years (and barely got a result). Last year they had Gubby on board and they ended up with Hall, Tyson, Polec and Pittard (2 of that lot were pretty good for them this year). This year now that he's gone? Nada, mix, nought.
fugazi wrote: ↑Wed 25 Sep 2019 10:05pm
D Mac is pretty close to irrelevant for our side now.
How the hell did he get a 3 year contract?
Beggars belief really. A contract for 2020 would have been plenty.
Same with Joyce.
McKenzie was in the top 10 in the B & F in 2018 season playing only 13 games - was very good in the second half of the season. In 2019, imo he should have played a more attacking role, but often was a lock down defender, doesn't suit him, and he was beaten a few times. Courageous player, big tank, and quick, and I still think he could turn out to be a very good player in the right role.
He does make some spectacular clangers, but strangely his disposal efficiency is over 80%, kicking efficiency 74%, both quite a bit above Billings for example. Billings gets a lot more possessions of course. If he goes and gets a chance to play a role that suits him we may well rue his loss down the track. Maybe he in on the table because other clubs are interested - we certainly have to trade out to get those reported players in, with limited draft picks available.
Who cares about his kicking efficiency.
A lot of defenders have a high efficiency because moving the ball in the back half is comparatively easy. especially if you are conservative with ball in hand
Who cares about kicking efficiency? 18 clubs.
I agree stats can be misleading. However, as you mention defenders, Dmac's kicking efficiency is better than all the other smaller defenders with the exception of Savage. His overall disposal efficiency is the best of all. Not the be all and end all, but I think some posters just remember the clangers. We have plenty of hbf, and if we can get good value for him, fair enough, but I think some posters underrate him. As The Age says, there have been enquiries from other clubs.
My point is take Dustin Martin for example his disposal efficiency is only about 65%
Look at the value of his possessions and how damaging they are and conversely when he does turn it over its usually not a catastrophic one which leads to a easy goal.
My point about being conservative also comes into this, DMAC only averages 147 meters gained per match which is much less than say Savage. He's not really trying to advance the ball forward aggressively which helps his efficiency
I take back my comment that no one cares about kicking efficiency but it is misleading. Some of the worst kicks have good efficiency and some of the best have the worst.
My point is take Dustin Martin for example his disposal efficiency is only about 65%
Look at the value of his possessions and how damaging they are and conversely when he does turn it over its usually not a catastrophic one which leads to a easy goal.
My point about being conservative also comes into this, DMAC only averages 147 meters gained per match which is much less than say Savage. He's not really trying to advance the ball forward aggressively which helps his efficiency
I take back my comment that no one cares about kicking efficiency but it is misleading. Some of the worst kicks have good efficiency and some of the best have the worst.
Fair enough, I was trying to put across the view that Dmac is not a total dud, to be shoved off the list asap, as some posters advocate. Needs to be given credit as he has a red hot go, does a lot of good things on field, is not a "defensive" back, and may well prosper more imo with good management, probably now with another club.
My point is take Dustin Martin for example his disposal efficiency is only about 65%
Look at the value of his possessions and how damaging they are and conversely when he does turn it over its usually not a catastrophic one which leads to a easy goal.
My point about being conservative also comes into this, DMAC only averages 147 meters gained per match which is much less than say Savage. He's not really trying to advance the ball forward aggressively which helps his efficiency
I take back my comment that no one cares about kicking efficiency but it is misleading. Some of the worst kicks have good efficiency and some of the best have the worst.
Fair enough, I was trying to put across the view that Dmac is not a total dud, to be shoved off the list asap, as some posters advocate. Needs to be given credit as he has a red hot go, does a lot of good things on field, is not a "defensive" back, and may well prosper more imo with good management, probably now with another club.
That's also fair enough.
He is an elite mark for his size and generally a competitive beast so there are legitimate reasons why he was being selected and why hopefully he can add value to a team in the future.
takeaway wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2019 1:08pm
air enough, I was trying to put across the view that Dmac is not a total dud, to be shoved off the list asap, as some posters advocate. Needs to be given credit as he has a red hot go, does a lot of good things on field, is not a "defensive" back, and may well prosper more imo with good management, probably now with another club.
He's not a dud, but he's not what we need, and he simply hasn't been able to transfer his quality traits (pace, skills) to AFL level.
He needed to become an amazing lock-down defender, but he didn't really read the game well enough to do that IMO.
Oh, and disposal efficiency? That's from all those 20m passes that go wide and slightly backwards and allow the opposition to set up defensively.
I wanted him to become an outstanding small defender and tough midfielder but he doesn't seem to have it in his locker at this point in his career.
I'd be delighted to see him get a fresh start elsewhere.
takeaway wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2019 1:08pm
air enough, I was trying to put across the view that Dmac is not a total dud, to be shoved off the list asap, as some posters advocate. Needs to be given credit as he has a red hot go, does a lot of good things on field, is not a "defensive" back, and may well prosper more imo with good management, probably now with another club.
He's not a dud, but he's not what we need, and he simply hasn't been able to transfer his quality traits (pace, skills) to AFL level.
He needed to become an amazing lock-down defender, but he didn't really read the game well enough to do that IMO.
Oh, and disposal efficiency? That's from all those 20m passes that go wide and slightly backwards and allow the opposition to set up defensively.
I wanted him to become an outstanding small defender and tough midfielder but he doesn't seem to have it in his locker at this point in his career.
I'd be delighted to see him get a fresh start elsewhere.
He transferred his quality traits to AFL level in 2018. Top 10 in B & F in only 13 games. In 2019, in the absence of Geary, Webster, etc he was by necessity given more of a lock down role, which imo does not suit him - attacking hbf, wing, and time in midfield is his go.
Anyway, enough on Dmac, only 23, hope he reaches his potential, with Saints or another club.
evertonfc wrote: ↑Wed 25 Sep 2019 7:16pm
He'll be of value to somebody. We just have too many of his type.
And further to the McKenzie v Paton thread of a few months back, I think most are in the Paton camp.
I'm in the Paton camp, but only because DMac has been there for a while and although has shown signs of some talent, he isn't consistent, and seems to be treading water.
Paton is still young and shows a bit more flair, and I have a hope that he can cement a spot in regular 22.
Paton's on the up, while DMac is flatlining.
Paton is a pretty good kick.
From my memory of him, he does seem to pick the right option and deliver it better than Webster, DMac etc.
Maybe you shouldn't drink so much when watching the footy next and have a closer look at Jimmy and his distributor skills. You could mount a very serious argument to claim if Jim didn't get injured this year we play finals.
That would be a doozey of an argument. A injured HBF, a position we have in spades, was the reason we missed out on finals. You burnt brightly Pundit.
Dmac is just another in a long line of current Saints players that started well... has some clearly good traits but hasn’t really been able to translate that into a permanent spot in the top22.
His best is certainly good enough.
The reality is IMO that if you’re in the team as purely a stopper, you need to be exceptional. If you’re not, then you need to be able to hurt the opposition going the other way and his disposal and decision-making have prevented that from being the case so far.
Top 10 in 2018 isn’t a particularly impressive achievement in AFL terms. Far better than I’ll ever be able to produce by all means but it’s probably more a reflection of how bad we were that season
DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2019 10:17am
For years I have copoed grief on here regarding my opinions on draftees we have selected regarding their positions. IE why so many half backs. Now we have too many GOPs who didn't get game time to improve due to the amount of similar players and our captain in that role. Be honest Geary should have been dropped several times due to poor games
Now if we can offload one or two then I say do it. Problem is they will need some value to warrant interest and I doubt dmac has much. I'd be more likely to shop Webster around. I am a big fan of Jimmy, I really am, but he would have more suitors than dmac imo
I think you'll find that there are very, very few on our list whom we will entertain offers for if the price is right. Our List Management team are acutely aware of where the holes are and that you have to give a bit to hopefully get a lot. It's no coincidence that the addition of Gubby Allen has happened at precisely the time that our club is linked with nearly every reasonable quality player coming out of contract. Despite having so few picks and players to trade with. Why? Because the industry knows that he will make a deal happen. He doesn't try and get too cute - he's there to get a job done and achieve an outcome. Have a look at North - they've been trying to recruit everyone and anyone for years (and barely got a result). Last year they had Gubby on board and they ended up with Hall, Tyson, Polec and Pittard (2 of that lot were pretty good for them this year). This year now that he's gone? Nada, mix, nought.
Matt,
I agree with you so much I could have written that exact same post.
Onwards.
(There's a missing "not" in your first sentence I expect).
Spinner wrote: ↑Thu 26 Sep 2019 1:13am
Geez top 10 b&f in only 13 games last year is an amazing effort.
Really like McKenzie but can see how he might be on the outer.
Interestingly from champion data (maybe the previous years prospectus) he was rated highly in terms of relative ratings (based on age and position) for his draft class.
Anyone got an update from the 2018 version?
I don't quite get this. He's fast, aggressive, faster than Webster and a better kick, younger than Geary who cannot kick.... I reckon DMac is a good prospect. Zach Jones is a lesser player, for mine.
