What’s the latest on Jack Steven?

[SaintPav]

I hate Carlton the most, closely followed by Essendon.

The rest can please themselves.

[SaintPav]

Geelong needs to come to the table on this. It can't be just we win, you lose. If not, they are just being opportunistic pricks.

i wish we were

We typically can't be because we are usually the much weaker of the two parties.

If you’re not in a position to say NO and walk away, you can't negotiate anything. You basically have no bargaining power.

Hence, we have to be much smarter about it. Having Lethlean helps because I reckon he is probably a real you know what and I mean that in the nicest possible way.

[longtimesaint]

I hate Carlton the most, closely followed by Essendon.

The rest can please themselves.

I hate Geelong the most since 2004 to 2009 when the druggie was coach.
Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon just behind them.

[The Fireman]

if it's a skunk tiges GF Melb will get a reprieve for a few hours.
..all the ferals will be in one place

[prwilkinson]

Cheers Richo

[st.byron]

Geelong needs to come to the table on this. It can't be just we win, you lose. If not, they are just being opportunistic pricks.

In other words being their normal selves.
I took great delight in watching Richmond smash my most hated team last night.
I would not trade Steven to Geelong as I would rather him go anywhere else.

can't fathom how someone can hate a side more than the Skunks.

I don’t mind the Skunks. West Coast are my Filth.

WC are a million miles away..living amongst Skunk supporters is is the bane of my life.

I get it. I lived and worked amongst West Coast supporters for 10 years. Appalling. Ignorant. Believe all the dishwater the West Australian dishes up. Hyper parochial. Chips on their shoulders. Believe they should have 16 home games a year because of the travel.The list goes on. Most of them, who have never lived in a multi team city like Melbourne have absolutely no idea of the massive advantage they have playing in front of an exclusively parochial crowd. The worst.

Of the Vic teams, a toss up between the Druggies and Carlton.

[SaintPav]

if it's a skunk tiges GF Melb will get a reprieve for a few hours.
..all the ferals will be in one place

It will apparently set a world record for the largest weight and volume of tracksuits and polyester in one location at any time...

[SMS]

Steven for pick 34 apparently. Are we f****** serious??
If we let our best CONTRACTED player go for pick 34 we are nuts.
We say to Geelong very simply. You choose 1 of these 3 to give us...
Constable, Guthrie or Narkle

[To the top]

Well, you see Joffa, I am of the view that you confuse two issues.

Comradeship among the employees of the Football Club in the course of any one season (because there are List changes) is one issue.

The management of the Football Club which competes and continues to compete in the AFL competition is another issue.

Whilst the players contracted in any one season seek on field success, the management is charged with achieving on field success season upon season.

Geelong were Minor Premiers.

We understand that they wish to recruit a Contracted St Kilda player, a player who has won 4 B&F Awards at St Kilda.

This represents a management decision for the St Kilda Football Club.

[Joffa Burns]

Well, you see Joffa, I am of the view that you confuse two issues.

Comradeship among the employees of the Football Club in the course of any one season (because there are List changes) is one issue.

The management of the Football Club which competes and continues to compete in the AFL competition is another issue.

Whilst the players contracted in any one season seek on field success, the management is charged with achieving on field success season upon season.

Geelong were Minor Premiers.

We understand that they wish to recruit a Contracted St Kilda player, a player who has won 4 B&F Awards at St Kilda.

This represents a management decision for the St Kilda Football Club.

I hear you TTT, but disagree.

The players number one priority is the welfare of their peers and their own ability to move clubs as they feel fit.

Perhaps I read the linked article incorrectly but it appears the captain is not in agreement with your hard line stance.

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/coupler ... 2b9a980ddc

[skeptic]

This is a huge test regarding the competency of whoever is in charge of our list management..

Steven is an elite AFL player.
He is worth more to a club like Geelong who are a final ingredient away from a flag
He is worth more to us then a second or third rounder

If we walk away from this deal without anything more than a second rounder... or incredibly according to some, less than that... then we may as well just give it away.

Not even worth trying if you’re going to be that stupid

[To the top]

“Geelong will fight tooth and nail to keep want away star”

And no player is bigger than the Club

It is not what Steven wants

It is what the Club wants, noting Steven is a Contracted player

Would Geelong allow their Contracted player to return to WA for a Second Round Draft Pick because he wants to be near family - so his interests trump the Club’s interests?

I think you have your answer

St Kilda are in competition with Geelong

[Spinner]

Jack Steven is CONTRACTED to St Kilda for the 2020 season.

So he either plays at St Kilda at the required leval, does not play (and St Kilda take action for breach of Contract) or Geelong make an offer which is TOTALLY acceptable to St Kilda.

If he chooses to not play or merely makes up the numbers at Sandringham in 2020 that will be the end of his AFL career and his earning capacities because 2 years out or virtually 2 years out plus then being 31 years of age in 2021 would indicate a very hard road back to AFL football, particularly at an elite level and where that elite level is why Geelong seek him (after one interrupted season, not two)

They are the options Jack Steven has as a CONTRACTED player.

IF Geelong are so keen, they play ball at St Kilda's behest, exclusively.

Steven has questions to ask himself courtesy of executing a CONTRACT, and not delivering under that CONTRACT in 2019.

St Kilda has, to date, supported Steven

But it should not be screwed by Steven in unison with Geelong.

You play hard ball - and you send a message to players and to the competition.

St Kilda is not a benevolent fund.

St Kilda FC comes first before ANY player.

Because St Kilda FC is perpetual.

Players are temporary.

This is a very poor post for a number of reasons.

Firstly, while everyone loves to look back at the 4 b&fs when arguing trade value, they conveniently disregard that the club held firm last year not to trade and the outcome was that he effectively missed the season.

This win at all costs stance above has no winners. Especially not the club. It will show the competition (other potential recruits) that we are pricks to our players in difficult circumstances even after 10 year service and 4 b&fs, show our players that we are pricks to our favourite sons, and position the club are unrealistic at the trade table.

We need to get what we can but I can understand how our hands are tied in this one and this is not the battle we need to be picking. The realistic trade value is not the high pick everyone is hoping for.

If you really would prefer Steven to be calling it quits or suffering in the VFL - where there are no winners, well that’s your choice. Clubs don’t pick their fans I guess.

[SaintPav]

So many assumptions.

Why don't you tell the club what they should do?

[To the top]

So let me get this absolutely right

St Kilda, with its record over recent seasons noting just the one premiership so holding no attraction to players who want to play Finals and play before capacity crowds at the MCG, sees its senior players wanting out to play for Clubs who can offer crowds and success

So St Kilda respond “Thank you for your services and the very best of success at your new Club” taking Second or Third Round Draft Picks in exchange and remaining the perennial cellar dwellers of the AFL - because St Kilda are playing against teams featuring players who were once St Kilda’s most credentialed players

And when King says he wants to play with his brother at Richmond or Collingwood we allow that outcome - accepting a Second Round Draft Pick

Because St Kilda, the perennial cellar dweller are a player friendly Club always acting in the best interests of their players, or more correctly their former players

So, as with a couple of Clubs today, you see your former players playing on the big stage in important games at the business end of the season

Good old St Kilda

You can always leave if you want - all you have to do is ask

Geelong in the mean time are fighting tooth and nail to keep their class players - and attract others

Geelong are, of course, in the same competition as St Kilda - so why wouldn’t we assist them to be better than St Kilda?

[skeptic]

Jack Steven is CONTRACTED to St Kilda for the 2020 season.

So he either plays at St Kilda at the required leval, does not play (and St Kilda take action for breach of Contract) or Geelong make an offer which is TOTALLY acceptable to St Kilda.

If he chooses to not play or merely makes up the numbers at Sandringham in 2020 that will be the end of his AFL career and his earning capacities because 2 years out or virtually 2 years out plus then being 31 years of age in 2021 would indicate a very hard road back to AFL football, particularly at an elite level and where that elite level is why Geelong seek him (after one interrupted season, not two)

They are the options Jack Steven has as a CONTRACTED player.

IF Geelong are so keen, they play ball at St Kilda's behest, exclusively.

Steven has questions to ask himself courtesy of executing a CONTRACT, and not delivering under that CONTRACT in 2019.

St Kilda has, to date, supported Steven

But it should not be screwed by Steven in unison with Geelong.

You play hard ball - and you send a message to players and to the competition.

St Kilda is not a benevolent fund.

St Kilda FC comes first before ANY player.

Because St Kilda FC is perpetual.

Players are temporary.

This is a very poor post for a number of reasons.

Firstly, while everyone loves to look back at the 4 b&fs when arguing trade value, they conveniently disregard that the club held firm last year not to trade and the outcome was that he effectively missed the season.

This win at all costs stance above has no winners. Especially not the club. It will show the competition (other potential recruits) that we are pricks to our players in difficult circumstances even after 10 year service and 4 b&fs, show our players that we are pricks to our favourite sons, and position the club are unrealistic at the trade table.

We need to get what we can but I can understand how our hands are tied in this one and this is not the battle we need to be picking. The realistic trade value is not the high pick everyone is hoping for.

If you really would prefer Steven to be calling it quits or suffering in the VFL - where there are no winners, well that’s your choice. Clubs don’t pick their fans I guess.

No disrespect but I think you’re off the mark here

IMO way too much is being made of his year off that excluded a serious physical injury requiring rehab

This get what we can mentality for a player under contract paints us as a club with poor judgment that is badly run... why would anyone even want to go to a club like that other than to milk money out of them

The whole point of drafting and trading is to get good players.

What’s the point then in letting them go for less than value.

Name the successful club that trades away it’s good players for less than they’re worth?

[Saint 58]

So let me get this absolutely right

St Kilda, with its record over recent seasons noting just the one premiership so holding no attraction to players who want to play Finals and play before capacity crowds at the MCG, sees its senior players wanting out to play for Clubs who can offer crowds and success

So St Kilda respond “Thank you for your services and the very best of success at your new Club” taking Second or Third Round Draft Picks in exchange and remaining the perennial cellar dwellers of the AFL - because St Kilda are playing against teams featuring players who were once St Kilda’s most credentialed players

And when King says he wants to play with his brother at Richmond or Collingwood we allow that outcome - accepting a Second Round Draft Pick

Because St Kilda, the perennial cellar dweller are a player friendly Club always acting in the best interests of their players, or more correctly their former players

So, as with a couple of Clubs today, you see your former players playing on the big stage in important games at the business end of the season

Good old St Kilda

You can always leave if you want - all you have to do is ask

Geelong in the mean time are fighting tooth and nail to keep their class players - and attract others

Geelong are, of course, in the same competition as St Kilda - so why wouldn’t we assist them to be better than St Kilda?

+1 ... (on the exceptionally high level quality of sarcasm )

[Joffa Burns]

So let me get this absolutely right

St Kilda, with its record over recent seasons noting just the one premiership so holding no attraction to players who want to play Finals and play before capacity crowds at the MCG, sees its senior players wanting out to play for Clubs who can offer crowds and success

So St Kilda respond “Thank you for your services and the very best of success at your new Club” taking Second or Third Round Draft Picks in exchange and remaining the perennial cellar dwellers of the AFL - because St Kilda are playing against teams featuring players who were once St Kilda’s most credentialed players

And when King says he wants to play with his brother at Richmond or Collingwood we allow that outcome - accepting a Second Round Draft Pick

Because St Kilda, the perennial cellar dweller are a player friendly Club always acting in the best interests of their players, or more correctly their former players

So, as with a couple of Clubs today, you see your former players playing on the big stage in important games at the business end of the season

Good old St Kilda

You can always leave if you want - all you have to do is ask

Geelong in the mean time are fighting tooth and nail to keep their class players - and attract others

Geelong are, of course, in the same competition as St Kilda - so why wouldn’t we assist them to be better than St Kilda?

You certainly are an extremist TTT.

You turn Steven who in the twilight of his career suffering mental illness after a 6 game season where he was unfit and overweight into releasing Max King to Collingwood for a 2nd round pick to play with his brother.

I personally prefer reality over fantasy and extremism.

If in fact Steven with mental health issues wants out trade him for the best deal we can get and move on.

Perhaps you prefer the Luke Ball model where we played hardball and got nothing?

Geelongs offer for Rhys Stanley was above odds IMO, so let’s see if a reasonable deal can be done for Steven.
The big issue here is Steven is way overrated by Saints fans, was an A grader but was never elite and 4 X B & F was a great effort but in reality were won in piss weak teams.

Perhaps you can stretch the truth a bit more and pretend Clark is leaving for a 4th rounder to join the two Kings at Collingwood and that scenario somehow justifies your 1980’s hardline stance on the Steven trade.

[The Fireman]

Geelong needs to come to the table on this. It can't be just we win, you lose. If not, they are just being opportunistic pricks.

In other words being their normal selves.
I took great delight in watching Richmond smash my most hated team last night.
I would not trade Steven to Geelong as I would rather him go anywhere else.

can't fathom how someone can hate a side more than the Skunks.

I don’t mind the Skunks. West Coast are my Filth.

WC are a million miles away..living amongst Skunk supporters is is the bane of my life.

I get it. I lived and worked amongst West Coast supporters for 10 years. Appalling. Ignorant. Believe all the dishwater the West Australian dishes up. Hyper parochial. Chips on their shoulders. Believe they should have 16 home games a year because of the travel.The list goes on. Most of them, who have never lived in a multi team city like Melbourne have absolutely no idea of the massive advantage they have playing in front of an exclusively parochial crowd. The worst.

Of the Vic teams, a toss up between the Druggies and Carlton.

Yep, fair enough.

[Spinner]

So many assumptions.

Why don't you tell the club what they should do?

Actually I’m just agreeing with what the club is looking like doing. If they do better good on us.

Clearly I hit a nerve with you a while ago, but at least wait for the right opportunity to post this come back so it makes sense.

[SaintPav]

So many assumptions.

Why don't you tell the club what they should do?

Actually I’m just agreeing with what the club is looking like doing. If they do better good on us.

Clearly I hit a nerve with you a while ago, but at least wait for the right opportunity to post this come back so it makes sense.

It makes heaps of sense if you recall your pernicious post a few days ago, Spinner.

I'm merely pointing out that your long-winded post had so many assumptions and assertions, but you don't know more than anyone else on here. At least most are agreeing with me on letting Geelong get one over us.

Just remember the golden rule and everything will be good.

[The_Dud]

Geelong isn’t getting one over us, Jack Steven is.

Basically reading between the lines he’s said he doesn’t want to play football unless it’s at Geelong. This gives us no bargaining power, contract or not. Geelong knows we either take what they’ve got or pay a bloke $600-800k to not play for us again next season. Why would they give us anything more than the minimum?

The decent move by Jack would have been to leave last year while he had much more value. Tell Richo you were going to sit out most of next season if you stayed and you want to help the club get something for you in return.

[degruch]

Geelong isn’t getting one over us, Jack Steven is.

Basically reading between the lines he’s said he doesn’t want to play football unless it’s at Geelong. This gives us no bargaining power, contract or not. Geelong knows we either take what they’ve got or pay a bloke $600-800k to not play for us again next season. Why would they give us anything more than the minimum?

The decent move by Jack would have been to leave last year while he had much more value. Tell Richo you were going to sit out most of next season if you stayed and you want to help the club get something for you in return.

Of course, we can stand our ground...we may get nothing in return, but doesn't cost us anything that hasn't already been factored into next season anyway. If Jack sits out a year, not playing, and the landscape changes at Geelong, he'll end up with nothing as well. Its a risk both ways, but in the end the club will move on, our risk is only short term.

[shanegrambeau]

Perhaps Kelly leaving Geelong...or the possibility...increases Jack’s value temporarily.
Of course he seems worth more to us than pick 34, but I guess it is not the way it works. On the one hand, his value has never been lower, ditto the prospects (at least from the outside perception) that he might re-invent himself and start loving Moorabbin and Ratts so as to eclipse the draw of a lifestyle in Lorne.

We shouldn’t let one player steer course of the club ship, but we could use some balance and some nuanced approach. Sometimes finding a way of finessing or coaxing decisions out of individuals at crucial times might be good, and if he decides to play out the contract, perhaps for enhancing his value at the end of 2020, even at 31, then maybe that is a good outcome.

I think Geelong did this with Kelly last year, and the results paid dividends.

[To the top]

Thank you Saint58

Joffa, school holidays is it?