Josh Bruce to be traded?

[saynta]

If you were watching 360 last night, Ratts said that Bruce was contracted and that he expected him to be playing with the saints next year.

[CQ SAINT]

If you were watching 360 last night, Ratts said that Bruce was contracted and that he expected him to be playing with the saints next year.

Does anyone expect him to say anything different?

[diddley]

Interesting that Ratten just said on AFL 360 that Bruce is contracted for 2020 and Ratten wants him at the Saints

That is a great way of forcing the bulldogs to part with their pick 12.
“He is required”
“What if we gave you pick 12”
“All yours buddy”

What do the Saints do with pick 12 ?

We have been linked with at least a dozen players, and the only thing we have to offer of any substance, is pick 5, future picks and a handful of players that are worth something of substance to someone else.
-Pick 5 seems to be out the door in one way or another for Hill. We may get something else back, we may have to give more, or that may be it.
-future picks are a massive unknown until they happen.
-players that can be traded are complex. Ultimately, no one wants to lose elite players. But losing “good” players so that we can get “great” or “elite” players in to the club one way or another takes risks like this one.
If this trade assists in us landing an elite player, then the “upgrade” will mean it is a win (The Stanley trade that netted us Goddard could be seen as similar. If it had of worked out, it was genius. It didn’t work, and we took a step back, among others. I personally saw it as a risk worth taking, even in hindsight.)
The biggest question I ask myself is, “are St Kilda going to get better while Josh Bruce is our CHF?”. My personal answer to that question is no. So, let’s do something to make us better, and hopefully, win shiny trophies.

[Saintmatt]

Interesting that Ratten just said on AFL 360 that Bruce is contracted for 2020 and Ratten wants him at the Saints

That is a great way of forcing the bulldogs to part with their pick 12.
“He is required”
“What if we gave you pick 12”
“All yours buddy”

What do the Saints do with pick 12 ?

We have been linked with at least a dozen players, and the only thing we have to offer of any substance, is pick 5, future picks and a handful of players that are worth something of substance to someone else.
-Pick 5 seems to be out the door in one way or another for Hill. We may get something else back, we may have to give more, or that may be it.
-future picks are a massive unknown until they happen.
-players that can be traded are complex. Ultimately, no one wants to lose elite players. But losing “good” players so that we can get “great” or “elite” players in to the club one way or another takes risks like this one.
If this trade assists in us landing an elite player, then the “upgrade” will mean it is a win (The Stanley trade that netted us Goddard could be seen as similar. If it had of worked out, it was genius. It didn’t work, and we took a step back, among others. I personally saw it as a risk worth taking, even in hindsight.)
The biggest question I ask myself is, “are St Kilda going to get better while Josh Bruce is our CHF?”. My personal answer to that question is no. So, let’s do something to make us better, and hopefully, win shiny trophies.

I don’t mind that logic and agree with Stanley. He was poor (when it counted) with us so, it should’ve been an upgrade. It didn’t end up that way.

As for will we get better with Josh Bruce as CHF? - I’m torn. I think most of our forwards suffer from playing in front of a diabolically unskilled and weak midfield - Josh is no different. Or ... like Roo often did with Gram and Gilbert’s rubbish delivery ... do the forwards make the crap mids ok?

[DJ Higgins]

Hate trading future picks as this year's proves. On papers it's an ordinary draft so I'd personally say bite the bullet and get players not draft picks. E.g. Bruce and Steven depart, possibly acres if it gets the hill trade done and get in hill, constable and maybe Zac from Sydney and if we don't have picks we suck it up for a year

[sunsaint]

If you were watching 360 last night, Ratts said that Bruce was contracted and that he expected him to be playing with the saints next year.

Does anyone expect him to say anything different?

agreed it means nothing - it certainly didnt with Hannebery Hickey etc If three parties comes to an agreement then its on with nothing more to than wait for the ink to dry. The interesting times come when only two parties want it to happen, so lets be real here if the deal is good then Bruce is gone . We obviously dont want to match the offer (the club will be keeping in mind the deals that Hill possibly Jones and Hannebery got) and we definitely need the picks.

[SAINT-LEE]

If you were watching 360 last night, Ratts said that Bruce was contracted and that he expected him to be playing with the saints next year.

Which is St Kilda speak for....." we traded him already for a tea cosy, half a tin of Milo and 2 amazing 12 yrs old with lots of upside".

[B.M]

The logic of robbing Peter to pay Paul to try and improve is ridiculous imo

Yes, we have a sh*t midfield

But, you don’t give away a good key forward to get a good mid? Because now you can win the footy... but have no key forward to kick it to?

To improve, we must replace our average Mids with good ones... surely?

Or give up something we are surplus in
HBs, Small Forwards, Key Defenders

We are deficient in
Ruck support, key forwards, Mids

[BarryGrogan]

The logic of robbing Peter to pay Paul to try and improve is ridiculous imo

Yes, we have a sh*t midfield

But, you don’t give away a good key forward to get a good mid? Because now you can win the footy... but have no key forward to kick it to?

To improve, we must replace our average Mids with good ones... surely?

Or give up something we are surplus in
HBs, Small Forwards, Key Defenders

We are deficient in
Ruck support, key forwards, Mids

We used our pick 4 on a key forward.

[B.M]

He’s 19yo

202cm and 90kg

I watched Hartley from Essendon VFL move King under the footy with ease, he will rarely get a run and Jump at it at AFL level... or have a significant size advantage ...especially on the number 1 key defender. In fact he will be rag dolled

[BackFromUSA]

Mart is right. King should be our third tall forward for at least two more years. Think Riewoldt when he first cane into the team. Not ready to be the main man. And for those that think King can ruck - well at least not for 5 to 7 years!

Bruce must stay IMHO

[To the top]

IF our midfield is so poor how come 2 members of that midfield placed first and second on our B&F, followed by out Ruckman?

And I would put that out best option midfielder does not get the time he should be getting thru the midfield because the likes of Ross, Steele and Dunstan can not rotate thru the F50 as one of the required 6 forwards

Hill is a requirement and particularly if we allow Steven to leave - and very well worth Pick 5 to St Kilda (but maybe not to other Clubs which have a skilled outside presence)

Bruce is required

Carlisle is required

Acres is required

Who is not required come from our flank defenders and our small forwards

[saintsRrising]

IF our midfield is so poor how come 2 members of that midfield placed first and second on our B&F

Did you note our %

Our mids are ok at getting, the ball but dreadful at using it. Though both Ross and Dunstan became more effective in the last batch of games.

Both will be more effective mid when they have Hill to feed.

[BarryGrogan]

He’s 19yo

202cm and 90kg

I watched Hartley from Essendon VFL move King under the footy with ease, he will rarely get a run and Jump at it at AFL level... or have a significant size advantage ...especially on the number 1 key defender. In fact he will be rag dolled

I just wrote a long post disagreeing with this...but as I was writing it I changed my mind.

Bringing King in as the 3rd tall would be ideal.

Adding Hill, and with improvement from Clark and Coffield and Billings and Marshall - should see a big midfield improvement really.

Ratten's coaching could see others step up too.


I think you're right. Keeping Bruce could be important.

[magnifisaint]

If he leaves we'll get a decent draft pick. Let the Bulldogs bleed.

[one point]

IF our midfield is so poor how come 2 members of that midfield placed first and second on our B&F

Did you note our %

Our mids are ok at getting, the ball but dreadful at using it. Though both Ross and Dunstan became more effective in the last batch of games.

Could have something to do with our new coach knowing a little about effective midfield play

[Spinner]

If the bulldogs offer pick 14, I’m taking it.

Bruce has turned into one of the all time greats all of a sudden. Serviceable, honest, good at times but tradable at the right price.

Send Battle forward for all those freaking that King is too ‘fragile’ a footballer.

[BarryGrogan]

For Pick 14 - I do think we'd have to seriously consider it.

Pick 14 for a 28yo who averaged 1.5 goals per game does seem too good to be true on face value.

However the chop out he will give King doesn't show up in his recent stats obviously.

[Ghost Like]

Take a first rounder & run or a future first rounder & this years 3rd rounder & run. I don't know what the deal will be but it has to be worth it.

We need to change up our list, our structure and the style of play we have. Changes don't magically happen, no club wants our surplus HBFs, our surplus small forwards or any of our mids, obviously they don't find one sided poor ball users and poor decision makers attractive.

Bruce is good, nothing more, nothing less. The Dogs have a plan for him so they must pay to realise that. We need to build a new structure. Who knows what the right structure is?

We've been blessed with a history of strong forwards and in our only premiership, 5 goals were kicked by a full back. I don't know what that means but I find it ironic in this argument. We also had a freak of a 6 foot tall CHF / midfielder, who helped a bit in 66.

Our list needs a change and not just a change for change sake but some quality to go with a planned structure. That plan is not one year but over three. Trading Bruce gives oxygen to that, keeping him and wishing for impossible trades using our rubbish simply won't.

[To the top]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, isn’t it?

And you don’t know what you have got until you lose it

Two old sayings with currency

So Pick 14 in the Draft (who?) versus a forward who can take contested marks

If it was Hill for Bruce with both King and McCartin cleared to play in 2020 I would take Hill

That to me is the equation

[BarryGrogan]

So Pick 14 in the Draft (who?) versus a forward who can take contested marks

If it was Hill for Bruce with both King and McCartin cleared to play in 2020 I would take Hill

That to me is the equation

I highly doubt we'd take pick 14 to the Draft though.

It would be used to get a good midfielder across.

[Ghost Like]

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, isn’t it?

And you don’t know what you have got until you lose it

Two old sayings with currency

So Pick 14 in the Draft (who?) versus a forward who can take contested marks

If it was Hill for Bruce with both King and McCartin cleared to play in 2020 I would take Hill

That to me is the equation

That it is TTT. We have too many weeds in our grass to turn it into turf just at the moment.

In terms of currency, our list is tracking as well as the AUD. If someone wants to offer above market rate do you knock them back and keep your fingers crossed it will get better?

It appears Bruce is open to going. It would be interesting to know when his manager was first approached.

It might just be time to pay Paul by robbing Peter of his bath water & perhaps the baby.

[saintsRrising]

Take a first rounder & run or a future first rounder & this years 3rd rounder & run. I don't know what the deal will be but it has to be worth it.

Well it is going to depend on the deal.

ie If it is not their first rounder, then unless it is a player of good value (and I do not mean Toby) then the deal may not be worth it.

Known vs the unknown.

Perhaps the pick helps us get Hill, or Jones. If it is just to use as a pick then the value is less certain.

Until we know the deal one cannot really rate it.

[wally]

Would we get pick 14 for Bruce?
In another thread people are saying we only get a second rounder for Steven.

[longtimesaint]

Would we get pick 14 for Bruce?
In another thread people are saying we only get a second rounder for Steven.

They are contracted anD we don’t need to trade them unless the deal is very good