Needs to be done through the draft.

[SydneySainter]

If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.

Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.

As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.

[saintspremiers]

If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.

Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.

As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.

Smart drafting will never be the total answer.

[howlinwolf]

I agree SS.

We need to offer overs to get anyone valuable to come.
There's only so many times we can do that until team salaries become unbalanced and or we hit our cap without the complete team.
We need to keep unearthing gold like Marshall,Wilkie,Parker,Gresh etc that don't cost the farm.

To do this though we need a razor sharp recruiting team. Gubby is a start.

[skeptic]

The list needs to be built through the draft... that has always been the case with the asterix that you trade in the specific type of player that you need to round out your list

IMO forwards and rucks in particular are hard to accurately recruit/draft because they're harder to assess as juniors - body development and size advantage as a junior is too prominent a feature here

[barneyboyz]

I agree SS.

We need to offer overs to get anyone valuable to come.
There's only so many times we can do that until team salaries become unbalanced and or we hit our cap without the complete team.
We need to keep unearthing gold like Marshall,Wilkie,Parker,Gresh etc that don't cost the farm.

To do this though we need a razor sharp recruiting team. Gubby is a start.

Plus, look at Sheil at the bummers, doesn't look anything like Sheil at GWS with all those other 'brilliant' picks floating about.

Problem for us is we probably need some more very low picks. Doing so though, is not what we want as a supporter group

[To the top]

I have put before that our rebuild (from nothing which is the crux of the problem) commenced with the Draft that got us Billings, Dunstan and Acres in the top 20

So I am of the view that we have done well - allowing for the bad luck with the only Number 1 we have had

The likes of Gresham, Coffield and Clark are there plus we look forward to King

It is a process - including FA which advantages the Cartel Clubs

From there you look at the likes of Bruce, Membrey and Steele seeking further opportunity and who can perform at the level required (ie a consistent finals participant)

[DJ Higgins]

Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players

[SydneySainter]

Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players

If your definition of awesome trades is to trade in top end talent, the club has tried and largely been unsuccessful in attracting that kind of talent, no matter how big the pay offer. Why is it that clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon are largely everyone’s preferred destination.

Great drafting will build a good core and once that core is on the rise, then top end talent will the benefit playing for us.

[freely]

The key for mine is keeping a core group together so they can grow together and make sure your leaders are emerging out of that group. Keep chopping and changing or bringing in new leaders from other clubs and - unless their brief is clearly to help grow the guys there already - you're effectively rebuilding every season.

[DJ Higgins]

Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players

If your definition of awesome trades is to trade in top end talent, the club has tried and largely been unsuccessful in attracting that kind of talent, no matter how big the pay offer. Why is it that clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon are largely everyone’s preferred destination.

Great drafting will build a good core and once that core is on the rise, then top end talent will the benefit playing for us.

Missed the point completely. It's not one or the ither, it's both combined

[DownAtTheJunction]

If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.

Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.

As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.

I think this is an important discussion.
I'm not sure if there is a 'one size fits all approach' to list development, but the better we get at sourcing players from the draft, the better our list.
I can't really see a time when clubs won't seek to entice stars from other clubs. But it is important to be selective.

[barneyboyz]

Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players

If your definition of awesome trades is to trade in top end talent, the club has tried and largely been unsuccessful in attracting that kind of talent, no matter how big the pay offer. Why is it that clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon are largely everyone’s preferred destination.

Great drafting will build a good core and once that core is on the rise, then top end talent will the benefit playing for us.

I have said before that through the early 2000's Geelong used to winge about not being a destination club, and no one wanted to travel to Geelong to play. Well bugger me, nearly 20 years later they have 3 flags and a potential for a fourth.

They don't have any issues getting players to travel down the freeway anymore??? Success is the answer, the last 7 - 8 years have been a glitch in our plans

We have to have some hope. I have hope

[cwrcyn]

The best list. Hold this club had was from 2000 to 2006. Good draft picks and then players like Gehrig, Voss, Schneider, and Dempster traded in. The important thing is to not give up first round picks for players from other clubs.

[Ghost Like]

The best list. Hold this club had was from 2000 to 2006. Good draft picks and then players like Gehrig, Voss, Schneider, and Dempster traded in. The important thing is to not give up first round picks for players from other clubs.

Excellent post. Add to that ensuring those first round picks aren't wasted. We were stiff having the #1 pick in the year we did, that said we blew it. We cannot afford to make those mistakes.

[SaintPav]

You need both.

We’re doing both.

[cwrcyn]

Which particular years you get those early picks can have a huge bearing. In 2000 we got a pile of gold dropped at our feet. Our most recent number one pick was in a weak draft. If Clark had been in that draft he may have been pick one. There are weak drafts, mediocre drafts, and great drafts. I think the 2017 and 2018 drafts will prove to be a couple of the best. It looks the this one and the next will be nowhere near as good

[cwrcyn]

2014

Pick 1. Paddy McCartin
Pick 61. Harris Andrews

Hard to fathom, isn't it?

[evertonfc]

Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players

Yep, it's a combination of both.

Hamill/Gehrig/Voss/Powell/Gram/Ackland/Guerra + Riewoldt/Ball/Koschitzke/Clarke/Maguire was the fuel that powered us up the table in 2004-05.

You'll get a few wrong in both columns (Brooks, Watts, Lovett...McCartin, Howard, Winmar), but you can't avoid the fact that you need to get the balance right.

(PS: What's really criminal is when you give away good players for under their market value: Hickey, Lynch and Cripps).

[saintsRrising]

If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.

I disagree. It needs to be both.

However BOTH need to be done well, and that is the real issue, choosing the right players.

For example if we to gain Hill I think it will make a significant difference as both Ross and Dunstan will be better players with an outside player like Hill to feed, and be supported by.

I do however think it is a mistake to gain older players like Ryder.

[evertonfc]

FWIW, I reckon Fremantle will accept any pick from 5-10 for Brad Hill.

If we can split 5 into 8-and-something or 10-and-something, I would be pleased. Might get us back into the 2nd round of the draft, whilst also enabling Hill to come here.

[ausfatcat]

It needs to be done with both, in the past you could concentrate more on the draft with priority picks, but not now everything needs to be spot on to be successful, drafting, trading and coaching/development all have to be done extremely well. 2009/2010 side was a combo of these things

[lewdogs]

2014

Pick 1. Paddy McCartin
Pick 61. Harris Andrews

Hard to fathom, isn't it?

Paddy has been unlucky with his injuries though, we've never gotten to see what he's capable of. So not the best example I don't think.

Is the thread suggesting we shouldn't get Hill? Because he will cost.

[To the top]

I agree with Sydney Sainter

The first stanza is to Draft well so that as experience builds to 100 games (that number because there is no core of class, experienced players to shield these players) we see improved team performance to challenging status (so pushing to finals participation and expectation) therefore able to present to FA players that there is an identifiable future at St Kilda including playing finals

We can not sell the “blockbuster” games the Cartel Clubs can sell but we can sell trajectory

Hence you do not throw out the baby with the bath water - because it is a process

You build the blocks

Success begets success

[desertsaint]

perhaps the openng post was relative to the fact we cannot draft very good talent into the club, hence need to build a core of exciting youth. there does need to be that excitement and belief amongst potential draftees to appeal to the prime prospects. blight's appointment provided that, then the brilliant core provided that. we were a team on the move.
i was hoping harvey's appointment would provide a spark, but instead it's more of the same. so we need our youngsters to provide that spark. if king looks a champion, if clark, coff, gresham, et all take the next step, and we start winning and look finals bound, we'll be able to serve up that as an enticer. i would also hope inner suburban living around the st kilda area might appeal as well. thank F*** we got out of seaford. would also help if our high profile supporters got a lot more involved to add to the appeal.

[skeptic]

What it ultimately comes down to is getting quality players through the door... draft them, trade them doesn’t matter.

The flawed strategy is trading good players for speculative picks like Bruce for 14 or bringing in over the hill players like Ryder