Ryder to Saints (two year deal)

[B.M]

Bringing in Ryder as a forward/ruck.... or even worse a ruck Forward will be the dumbest decision since giving up pick 16 for a drunk woman basher, or trading out a couple of 24yo ruckmen after developing them for 6 years.

[BackFromUSA]

Ryder won a game for Port over us s few years ago with a tap to advantage.

I very much hope that what a player did once is not a reason for recruitment.

1/ Especially when at that moment Longer was suffering from concussion and Billings failed to guard the space that he should have.

So Paddy gets clear tap, and his target had clear space to run into that he should not have.

2/ Secondly when that moment was when Ryder was at an age when he was at his "peak" age, rather than the "golden oldie"age that we would be getting him at.

I am not sure that he is AFL standard anymore.

I would submit that he is not. Showed signs of being almost cooked this season.

I think you will find I have clearly said that I am NOT advocating the recruitment of Ryder.

I use the example only as one where a ruckman with a clear tap to advantage creates goals. I thought it was one that most fans would remember.

And rather than blame Billings, from my memory Acres opted to run to offensive side rather than remain in the defensive space he was in and opened up that tap zone for Port to use. Billings and Dunstan (?) were just flat footed because they didnt realise where Port wanted to go and the Saints ruckman was hopelessly positioned NOT defending the out the back tap.

[BackFromUSA]

Ok I am anti getting Ryder who appears past his prime but a note on ruck stats.

Don’t look at hitout stats.

Hitouts to advantage is the only meaningful stat they take.

You want them for your team and you want to stop them for the other team.

They create space and goals.

They sometimes create goals, not always

The flip side of what you're contending is - I have watched countless games where a ruckmen gets a clear hitout, but he nevertheless taps the ball to the clear advantage of the opposition midfielder - I'm not talking about the opposition midfielder here sharking the ball.
I'm referring to a "hitout clanger", if you like.. and there's plenty of them during a game.

Strangely, there''s no stat for this.

This explains how Brisbane can average 22 more hitouts than us - yet our clearance numbers end up being quite similar.

Having a dominant hitout ruckman should translate into a clearance dominance - as the dominant hitout ruckman would be out-reaching and directing the ball exactly where they want it to go in an ideal world -but it doesn't happen.in practise, because of the flip side - the unaccounted-for clanger hit outs.

I love the idea of clanger hit outs!

I actually teach junior ruckmen at my son's club that if they cannot win taps against taller ruckmen then use their positioning and body to limit their tapzones and make sure the midfielders are there ready for the tap - I am now going to call if forcing Tap Clangers!

Thank you.

[samoht]

You’re welcome, Simon!

What you said re: body positioning to combat taller ruckmen reminded me of how Milne used his strong legs and lower centre of gravity and great timing to similarly protect the drop zone when a high ball came in, to keep his taller opponent out of the marking contest, and this allowed Milne to create space for himself and snap “easy” and cheeky goals .. and a large percentage of his goals were kicked that way.

[BarryGrogan]

I'm referring to a "hitout clanger", if you like.. and there's plenty of them during a game.

Strangely, there''s no stat for this.

Yes there is.

Lade quoted it recently.

[BackFromUSA]

You’re welcome, Simon!

What you said re: body positioning to combat taller ruckmen reminded me of how Milne used his strong legs and lower centre of gravity and great timing to similarly protect the drop zone when a high ball came in, to keep his taller opponent out of the marking contest, and this allowed Milne to create space for himself and snap “easy” and cheeky goals .. and a large percentage of his goals were kicked that way.

Absolutely the same thing - tall ruckmen get much shorter when they have to lean over a body positioned just over the drop zone (protected by an arm) and with their balance in a single direction their tap zones IF they get the tap out are resticted dramatically.

[samoht]

I'm referring to a "hitout clanger", if you like.. and there's plenty of them during a game.

Strangely, there''s no stat for this.

Yes there is.

Lade quoted it recently.

About time someone did. I also call them “hitouts to disadvantage”..
I’d like to see those damning stats.

[saintbob]

I honestly don’t get why we want Ryder he’s 32, got dodgey ankles and won’t come cheap.

I’d rather get Stanley back as part of the Steven deal with the cats plus Constable, we’d have to throw in a late 3rd round pick as well, and have 2 mobile rucks who can both go forward.

[SAINT-LEE]

My mother Angus to St Kilda, part time Ruck, part time scones lady...on a 3 yr deal - almost no money in it, could've got 5yrs but she's 74 in two months and came to medical with a knee wrap.

[BarryGrogan]

Bringing in Ryder as a forward/ruck.... or even worse a ruck Forward will be the dumbest decision since giving up pick 16 for a drunk woman basher, or trading out a couple of 24yo ruckmen after developing them for 6 years.

?

There's been far worse decisions than those made.

[degruch]

I honestly don’t get why we want Ryder he’s 32, got dodgey ankles and won’t come cheap.

I’d rather get Stanley back as part of the Steven deal with the cats plus Constable, we’d have to throw in a late 3rd round pick as well, and have 2 mobile rucks who can both go forward.

Far out, Steven and a 3rd round pick for Constable and Stanley, that's not a trade, that's highway robbery on our part!

[saintbob]

I honestly don’t get why we want Ryder he’s 32, got dodgey ankles and won’t come cheap.

I’d rather get Stanley back as part of the Steven deal with the cats plus Constable, we’d have to throw in a late 3rd round pick as well, and have 2 mobile rucks who can both go forward.

Far out, Steven and a 3rd round pick for Constable and Stanley, that's not a trade, that's highway robbery on our part!

Well if they get Steven, Higgins and Goldstein then they’ll be looking to salary dump especially if Junior goes around again, so it wouldn’t hurt to ask.

[The Barometer]

what would we even pay for Ryder? Could well be a token pick 70 for all anyone knows. Given we have Marshall and the ex bballer to ruck now Pierce and Longer have gone might not that dumb to have another ruckman that can actually play.

[Spinner]

Bringing in Ryder as a forward/ruck.... or even worse a ruck Forward will be the dumbest decision since giving up pick 16 for a drunk woman basher, or trading out a couple of 24yo ruckmen after developing them for 6 years.

?

There's been far worse decisions than those made.

Exactly... how stupid to compare trades when it is actually not even know what pick we would give up for Ryder.

BM has some deeper issues on this trade though, especially with his comparison to Lovett that he has reiterated from the start. It is some vulgar hatred that is driving this comparison because on the surface there is no comparison (i.e. incompariable on market value, player type, player need etc).

Adding in references to McEvoy now to cover his tracks.

[Spinner]

what would we even pay for Ryder? Could well be a token pick 70 for all anyone knows. Given we have Marshall and the ex bballer to ruck now Pierce and Longer have gone might not that dumb to have another ruckman that can actually play.

Too much sense in this post.

[kosifantutti]

Paddy was at Moorabbin today. According to Channel Seven, Jake acted as an ambassador.

[johnnyrayflamingo]

Bombers or Saints. Currently 50/50.

[saintsRrising]

Paddy was at Moorabbin today. According to Channel Seven, Jake acted as an ambassador.

Well the main takeaway from that then is that Carlisle is 100% staying.

[diddley]

Paddy was at Moorabbin today. According to Channel Seven, Jake acted as an ambassador.

Well the main takeaway from that then is that Carlisle is 100% staying.

Or the fact that they are former teammates.

[saynta]

Paddy was at Moorabbin today. According to Channel Seven, Jake acted as an ambassador.

Well the main takeaway from that then is that Carlisle is 100% staying.

Or the fact that they are former teammates.

Who, incidentley left the drug cheats because of their drug regime.

[kalsaint]

Ryder is not an answer. I am hoping that the recruiting department will surprise and pull some decent rabbits out of the hat. Very few of the players being linked to the Saints so far are going to take us forward. It's early days and hopefully they can keep targets under wraps but not liking what is being touted openly so far (apart from Hill).

Despite Tom Browns Tweet I reckon there is a strong chance Ryder might end up at the Bombers.

[kalsaint]

I see the logic there. We take a guy who may be as good, or better, than Grundie in the ruck and instead try and turn into being a CHF a role that I doubt he will be as good in. (Did you not see his contested ball work in the ruck contests this year?)

And we make do with for our No 1 Ruck a guy past his best who will only keep fading. 2021 he will be worse.

The irony there of course is that Port are squeezing out Ryder as they want to give the 21 year old Ladham's his head. And you want the Saints do the opposite and insert Ryder as our No 1 ruck

Meanwhile our perfectly capable Bruce who at 27 is now in his peak years as a CHF we give the heave ho....

With a strategy like that a wooden spoon or two beckons.

I believe you are correct on all points here. We have a development issue in this club. We get to a position where enough experience has occurred so we go about changes of the makeshift variety that wont necessarily gain any value to the team overall. We need clarity in player roles and accountability via our on ground leadership to ensure players do as required. Do this rigorously with a strong system and the game plan will be sustained. Make change that tears apart the plan will take time and cost ladder position.

To me the only required change is upgrading the individuals skills and team leadership for the development of the greater team, it includes VFL players to have roles. Its how Hawthorn had a stable team for success and enabled them to rcover from an aging list for so long.

[BarryGrogan]

We need a ruckman. Desperately.

We need 2 quality midfielders with run and good feet.



Marshall will be busted by the time he's 24 if we don't give him support.

In my opinion, a ruck combo has always been thr most effective method. So we need a ruckman who can play - notbsit in the 2s waiting for Marshall's 22yo body to breakdown.

What this also means, is that we will have a ruckman rotating through the forward line for short periods.


Combine this with Max King playing, and we simply don't need either Bruce or Membrey as talls in the forward line.

The Bruce/Marshall combo hasn't worked. Bruce averaged 1.5 goals a game this year and we leaked goals whilst he was in the ruck.

I think ideally, you keep them all and let them compete for spots each week.

However we have the bigger issue of how we get those two midfielders in.

Pick 5 will get us one of them. But were3 going to need to trade for the other

Given Bruce is realistically one of only 5 players on our list with any trade value - it becomes a bit of a perfect storm for us.

If we can't land a ruck, we need to keep Bruce.

But we'll still be a very mediocre side next year.

[Spinner]

I see the logic there. We take a guy who may be as good, or better, than Grundie in the ruck and instead try and turn into being a CHF a role that I doubt he will be as good in. (Did you not see his contested ball work in the ruck contests this year?)

And we make do with for our No 1 Ruck a guy past his best who will only keep fading. 2021 he will be worse.

The irony there of course is that Port are squeezing out Ryder as they want to give the 21 year old Ladham's his head. And you want the Saints do the opposite and insert Ryder as our No 1 ruck

Meanwhile our perfectly capable Bruce who at 27 is now in his peak years as a CHF we give the heave ho....

With a strategy like that a wooden spoon or two beckons.

This is one of the most hysterical posts yet.

Who said Marshall is getting pushed out of his ruck position?

Why are you getting so flustered about a player who is a past AA that will probably cost a third round pick?

Marshall is playing ruck. At the worst Ryder plays seconds and coaches / provides back up. At best he forces into best 22 which would be based on form.

What a weird and hysterical take on the whole thing.

[Spinner]

I see the logic there. We take a guy who may be as good, or better, than Grundie in the ruck and instead try and turn into being a CHF a role that I doubt he will be as good in. (Did you not see his contested ball work in the ruck contests this year?)

And we make do with for our No 1 Ruck a guy past his best who will only keep fading. 2021 he will be worse.

The irony there of course is that Port are squeezing out Ryder as they want to give the 21 year old Ladham's his head. And you want the Saints do the opposite and insert Ryder as our No 1 ruck

Meanwhile our perfectly capable Bruce who at 27 is now in his peak years as a CHF we give the heave ho....

With a strategy like that a wooden spoon or two beckons.

I believe you are correct on all points here. We have a development issue in this club. We get to a position where enough experience has occurred so we go about changes of the makeshift variety that wont necessarily gain any value to the team overall. We need clarity in player roles and accountability via our on ground leadership to ensure players do as required. Do this rigorously with a strong system and the game plan will be sustained. Make change that tears apart the plan will take time and cost ladder position.

To me the only required change is upgrading the individuals skills and team leadership for the development of the greater team, it includes VFL players to have roles. Its how Hawthorn had a stable team for success and enabled them to rcover from an aging list for so long.

What a very silly take.

What every team in the whole wide world of sport needs is competition for spots at every position. Not a free shot for eternity to developer one’s skills.

This is a prime example of a lot of words for a whole lot of crap and no insight.