Josh Bruce to be traded?

[B.M]

Let’s get this right

What are we expecting for Bruce?

Pick 14... what suggests that a player at that pick will develop into a 40 goal power forward or a player of equivalent value. Should I list the last 20 pick 14s?

Bruce is an important structural player... he’s not a great player. He won’t kick 70 at the dogs next year... but I can Guarantee that Naughton and Schache play better with his presence... similar to how Gehrig and Roo played better with Hamill in the side when Roo was developing.

It is a illogical decision to let Bruce go
When you can build a forward line of

Parker - Membrey - Hind
Lonie - Bruce - King

With Gresham and Long rotating through the forward line.

[Spinner]

Let’s get this right

What are we expecting for Bruce?

Pick 14... what suggests that a player at that pick will develop into a 40 goal power forward or a player of equivalent value. Should I list the last 20 pick 14s?

Bruce is an important structural player... he’s not a great player. He won’t kick 70 at the dogs next year... but I can Guarantee that Naughton and Schache play better with his presence... similar to how Gehrig and Roo played better with Hamill in the side when Roo was developing.

It is a illogical decision to let Bruce go
When you can build a forward line of

Parker - Membrey - Hind
Lonie - Bruce - King

With Gresham and Long rotating through the forward line.

Can be traded. Bruce was playing VFL last year.

Hysterical.

[longtimesaint]

Let’s get this right

What are we expecting for Bruce?

Pick 14... what suggests that a player at that pick will develop into a 40 goal power forward or a player of equivalent value. Should I list the last 20 pick 14s?

Bruce is an important structural player... he’s not a great player. He won’t kick 70 at the dogs next year... but I can Guarantee that Naughton and Schache play better with his presence... similar to how Gehrig and Roo played better with Hamill in the side when Roo was developing.

It is a illogical decision to let Bruce go
When you can build a forward line of

Parker - Membrey - Hind
Lonie - Bruce - King

With Gresham and Long rotating through the forward line.

Can be traded. Bruce was playing VFL last year.

Hysterical.

He only played VFL coming back after a long injury and needing some match practice.

[To the top]

To offer a forward 6 including Parker, Hind and Lonie says it all really

To my mind the loss thu 2019 was McCartin because the inclusion of Bruce, McCartin and Membrey was the structure we required

Instead we deployed Acres to the F50 as a marking target, which he is not plus impacting on his development

Yes there is King, but he is cream on the cake to me at this stage of his career (and if he has the skill set I am led to believe he has including below his knees he could be the next prototype and not a key forward)

In regard Bruce he has now played 120 games kicking 170 goals, or to that order

So not traditionally a goal scoring forward at least from those statistics (which may be impacted by playing as a defender pre St Kilda and his initial 50 goal season which has not been replicated)

My summary is that Bruce is a required player

But I am of the same view re Carlisle and Acres so what would I know?

Plus I think we have just too many “small forwards” and “small defenders” who are not up to the standard

Plus that we continue to play too many “inside mids” impacting on our demographic negatively

Too many who handball and tackle and do not have the required foot disposal skills

And I do not see the 193cm Battle as a KPP

Plus we continue to rely on Brown - in the hope Austin has put on weight not to the detriment of mobility (that view from my Port Adelaide contacts who were sorry to lose him)

Then Claravino, again fingers crossed

[B.M]

Spinner

Bruce was coming back from a major injury last year... much like Carlisle who played VFL this season.

I watched the one game Juice played in the VFL in 2018
He monstered the opposition and dominated, even though he was underdone and hampered by a bad back.

The fact you’ve stated this a few times means you’ve got no idea about this

[B.M]

So what are you saying TTT

You don’t rate Bruce but you would keep him?

You do realise he’s played on the number one defender post 2015 which is a little more difficult. He was injured in 2018 so that doesn’t count. And his first 20 games was as a defender.

And he is not going to be the forward who averages bags (will kick them occasionally given the right match up)
But he is a crash and bash key forward who will create opportunities for others and take the best defender.

Obviously I really rate Bruce... mainly for the role he plays.

He will make life a lot easier for Max King

Membrey will not make any difference.

[B.M]

On the small forwards

I think they (with Gresham) are very dangerous.

[Spinner]

Spinner

Bruce was coming back from a major injury last year... much like Carlisle who played VFL this season.

I watched the one game Juice played in the VFL in 2018
He monstered the opposition and dominated, even though he was underdone and hampered by a bad back.

The fact you’ve stated this a few times means you’ve got no idea about this

Played VFL for longer than Carlisle.

Good for Bruce but not Carlisle? Hasn't your beef been with Carlisle about taking time to recover?

Bruce has performed this year. But is he elite and not tradable - definitely not.

May have even been dropped in 2017 as well. Did you see those games? Did he monster the opposition here as well?

You're conversing on VFL form but I'm the one with no idea when discussing whether a player is tradable on AFL form?

[The Barometer]

Spinner

Bruce was coming back from a major injury last year... much like Carlisle who played VFL this season.

I watched the one game Juice played in the VFL in 2018
He monstered the opposition and dominated, even though he was underdone and hampered by a bad back.

The fact you’ve stated this a few times means you’ve got no idea about this

Played VFL for longer than Carlisle.

Good for Bruce but not Carlisle? Hasn't your beef been with Carlisle about taking time to recover?

Bruce has performed this year. But is he elite and not tradable - definitely not.

May have even been dropped in 2017 as well. Did you see those games? Did he monster the opposition here as well?

You're conversing on VFL form but I'm the one with no idea when discussing whether a player is tradable on AFL form?

Bruce definitely traceable.

[degruch]

Bruce definitely traceable.

Yep...big guy, usually seen in the St Kilda F50 when not at training, 27 on his back...

[Linton Lodger]

Collingwood are now rumoured to be into him, this will drive his price up.

I was lukewarm on Bruce, but his form in the later part of this year was very good. Whether he benefited from working with Brereton, became fully fit or both, I was excited about him in a future forward line where King would take the best defender.

However, its rumoured we have had offers beyond expectations for him. It appears we could secure a first rounder. I don't think we'd be using any first rounder we get for him at the Draft. I think we'll use it in a trade.

Our pursuit of Goldstein and now Ryder, indicates we're hell bent on playing 2 ruckman. I don't agree with that at all, but I see the logic. It works well for West Coast, Hawthorn and for Richmond last night. Marshall still has a lot to learn about the ruck craft. Haven't looked at his stats, but to me it has appeared he doesn't get too many hit outs to advantage. So it looks like they want to bring in an experienced bloke for a year or 2 and have them rotating as a third tall forward, whilst Marshall masters his ruck craft.

I think the Club believes King will play AFL next year, reasonable given that he was close to selection before injuring his ankle. Therefore, trading Bruce albeit bold, is probably a sensible decision, particularly if the pick we get for him nets us Hill or another good player.

[Scollop]

The only time Bruce played VFL was when he had come back from injury.

He's never been dropped

....ooops edit. I was responding to a post from 2nd last page

[CQ SAINT]

There is a hell of a lot riding on Battle, Marshall, King, Clark, Coffield and Bytel (2 which have not even played yet) and our only currency is Pick 5 and 3 of our most experienced players.
We have only one ruck and will expect (If they stay) Bruce and Carlisle to bridge that too. It's going to be interesting, perhaps bewildering and possibly disastrous. Not an easy job for Ratten with only a 3 year tenure.

[skeptic]

Personally I think it's madness to trade Bruce... a player that is an established forward at AFL level for a pick to hopefully get a player that could be an established player - it's an extremely high risk, low reward strategy IMO

Especially given thta we don't have an obvious replacement - can't bank on McCartin and King, even if he is the savior, is unlikely to come in at round one and better 50 goal a year forward from the get go.
Ryder can't play forward that well either... that's a folly of a move

For picks, you're supposed to trade out players that have the potential tag on them that aren't going to be what you want.

[evo]

Bruce for Schache and their second d/p

[Scollop]

Bruce for Schache and their second d/p

Schache is a squibb. No Thanks

[Linton Lodger]

The more I think about it, this is a good move.

If King plays next year, and he will if fit, where does Bruce fit? King will be our target for long balls into the forward 50, its a no-brainer. So what would Bruce's role be? Is he going to keep out King or spend more time at Sandy which diminishes his trade value?

[skeptic]

The more I think about it, this is a good move.

If King plays next year, and he will if fit, where does Bruce fit? King will be our target for long balls into the forward 50, its a no-brainer. So what would Bruce's role be? Is he going to keep out King or spend more time at Sandy which diminishes his trade value?

Wouldn't we still be short if McCartin is gone? We have been all season.

We go from one established forward and one short to hopefully one forward that can establish himself and one short!!!!

[To the top]

To me one of the ways we improve (so scoring more and conceding less hence a percentage above 100 and pushing to 120) is to have the 188cm Membrey being defended by the oppositions 3rd defender, not their Number 1 or Number 2 defender

So how do we achieve that objective?

Or is that not the objective and we continue to go with the array of very average “small forwards” - who have delivered the results they have hence our percentage over recent seasons

Remember Riewoldt, Gehrig, Koschitzke and Hammil?

[longtimesaint]

We were generally one marking forward short this year so to trade Bruce would be a really stupid idea.
King is 19 and has not yet played a match so Membery would attract the numbe4 one defender.
Battle is not tall enough for key forward and in a good team would play 3rd tall.

[Saint wagga]

If we trade Bruce, you’d think our forward line would be King, membrey and resting Ruck Marshall/Ryder...does leave us a bit diminished in terms of KP depth up forward, but if we keep Carlisle, I guess he or battle are forward options.

I’d like to see Bruce stay and let king come in as 2nd tall.

[Saint wagga]

And just to add...if we’ve learnt anything from our last fire sale; you just don’t trade away proven average to above average afl players in the prime age bracket of their careers for draft picks unless the player is a bad egg (Bruce is not, Carlisle probably is, but only those on the inner circle know that for certain or not)

[Teflon]

The problem we face is simple: you have to give to get
Maybe they don’t want to hand Freo 5 for hill......how do you secure a mid teens pick the ?? Lonie won’t get you there..
I like Bruce he’s Hamill like to me some days but facts are we’ve been treading water for 6 years we need to turn this group over, he’s 27 has value now , is contracted so we hold the aces....might have less if he sits in vfl next season and his contract is up....
Personally I’d let Carlisle go first......but they ain’t queuing up are they ?

[skeptic]

The problem we face is simple: you have to give to get
Maybe they don’t want to hand Freo 5 for hill......how do you secure a mid teens pick the ?? Lonie won’t get you there..
I like Bruce he’s Hamill like to me some days but facts are we’ve been treading water for 6 years we need to turn this group over, he’s 27 has value now , is contracted so we hold the aces....might have less if he sits in vfl next season and his contract is up....
Personally I’d let Carlisle go first......but they ain’t queuing up are they ?

The problem with this though is to get what...
The draft is a lottery. Most players, even the highly rated picks don’t make it.

If you traded out the top 20 players on the list for he top 20 picks, you’re team will be considerably weaker in terms of talent even factoring in what those players would be 5 years later.

It makes sense to trade out guys like Acres, Sinclair, Savage etc that have talent... but trading out guys like Bruce to hope to get guys like Bruce but with a reduced chance of doing so is a stupid strategy

By this logic (not you specifically Tef but overall)... why not trade out Marshall. Clearly the most valuable player on the list and would get us the most picks of highest value.
The answer is obviously because you’re unlikely to get a better return

[samoht]

Not recruiting established top-end talent over the last 10-12 years has brought us to this.
We have finally woken up to the fact that it's not only about the pre-season draft.

Compare us to the Hawks with Wingard, Mitchell, O'Meara, Frawley, McEvoy, Scully, Burgoyne, etc.- they just keep bringing in more and more top end talent -. to see what makes them great.
Their recruiting has sustained their (and their coach's) success!

We are playing catch ups - and the sting in the tail now is, I'm not sure what trading out (or even signalling our preparedness to trade out) Bruce does to team morale - it might encourage others to leave?