ROBERT HARVEY

[skeptic]

I’m not too invested in this argument...
I’d have welcomed Harvey back and am keen to see what Ratten will do.

One thing I want to point out is that Ratten seems to be getting a bit of flack for not turning things around or having a better showing in the last 6 rounds.

The reality is that our playing list is really quite psychologically damaged...
They’ve had years of inept management to the point that guys like Membrey at one point lack the confidence to have shots from 20m out.
Absurd selections, targeting players that don’t fit, horribly unbalanced teams.

The repair process starts this off-season but it’s going to take a while. I appreciate Barks that you would have chosen and respect that...
Just saying don’t use that against Ratten and give him a go too

[st.byron]

Did Kevin Bartlett, Tim Watson, Michael Voss, Carl Ditterich, Ross Smith, Darryl Baldock, Peter Knights, Wayne Schimmelbusch, Francis Bourke club legends in their own right not to mention many others, make good coaches. This has become a Robert Harvey Bro-mance. Its like any job some people are great at getting things done in a certain way and others may not be as great. So we need to employ Robert Harvey because he was a club legend ? Doesn't matter who the club appoints every supporter on this site will find reason to bag the next victim when he picks a certain player or loses. The wheel keeps turning.

You're failing to take into account the fact that we already know that Rob Harvey is a good assistant coach. That's my point. We already know that Brett Ratten is not a very good assistant coach and an average senior coach. This has nothing to do with big love for Harvey. I was just comparing the pair.

Ratten was an assistant when Hawthorn won three in a row and a dominant team over a long period. Bollocks to say we know he’s not a good assistant. This is just silly. Enough already.

[Joffa Burns]

Hero worshipping at its finest and most cringeworthy.

What absolute garbage and small mindedness.

Very sheep like perception by some in their disregard of those who wanted Robert Harvey and echoed by many on here.

This thought pattern and assessment is sadly lacking in perspicacity and perspicuity.

Am I small minded and have a sheep like perception because I do not know whether Harves will be a good or dud coach or because I don’t agree with your opinion?

Regardless of sheep like perception not actually having a meaning, I think you are trying to intimate those who disagree with you are displaying lemming like behavior.
Quite ironic, follow my opinion and you are an informed free thinker, take a different POV and you have a sheep like perception

I certainly have never been a good spotter of talent so in this instance you may well be correct. For example I never saw Michael Rix as an AFL standard ruckman and do not want Harves as coach just because he was a champion of the club and I hero worship him, I want the best coach available regardless of who they played for and how good a player they were.

I’m not informed enough to know who is the best coaching prospect and even less informed on the process undertaken therefore will stick with my “sheep like perception”

[ausfatcat]

Why is ratten not a good assistant coach byt Harvey is?

[Saintly66]

Why is ratten not a good assistant coach byt Harvey is?

Rose coloured glasses.

[kosifantutti]

Why is ratten not a good assistant coach byt Harvey is?

Because Pendlebury is better than Lonie.

[desertsaint]

I am not against Harvs, he is a legend. He has as huge heart, passion and vision.

But if he was a senior coach why has he not been selected by the many clubs needing a senior coach every year? 10 yrs an assitant, no offers. Comments seem to reflect our board are the only idiots nor seeing his potential.

Why no offers? Bad luck maybe? Timing? Maybe he hasn't shown interest in clubs he believed were not a good fit? I sure hope he gets a gig somewhere somehow.

I do think Ratts as Director and Harvs as coach could have worked.

Ratts has also not been scouted by any clubs as a senior since his Carlton sacking, despite three flags at the Hawks as an assistant. I don't think Harvs has ever put himself up for a senior gig anywhere else. Could be that other clubs realise his wants to coach the saints - that is his dream, so maybe would question whether he would bring another club the same level of committment.

[satchmo]

I am not against Harvs, he is a legend. He has as huge heart, passion and vision.

But if he was a senior coach why has he not been selected by the many clubs needing a senior coach every year? 10 yrs an assitant, no offers. Comments seem to reflect our board are the only idiots nor seeing his potential.

Why no offers? Bad luck maybe? Timing? Maybe he hasn't shown interest in clubs he believed were not a good fit? I sure hope he gets a gig somewhere somehow.

I do think Ratts as Director and Harvs as coach could have worked.

Ratts has also not been scouted by any clubs as a senior since his Carlton sacking, despite three flags at the Hawks as an assistant. I don't think Harvs has ever put himself up for a senior gig anywhere else. Could be that other clubs realise his wants to coach the saints - that is his dream, so maybe would question whether he would bring another club the same level of committment.

Des, that is just five wild guesses.

[whiskers3614]

Harvey going from Collingwood's midfield group, facilities and support structures to ours would be the equal of Jack Brabham taking over a billy-cart club! What he and Buckley have achieved has nothing to do with what he may or may not have done with our group!

[Scollop]

Pendlebury, Sidebottom, Adams, Treloar, Phillips, DeGoey, Hoskin Elliot, Crisp, Thomas, and guys like Aish, Wells, Varcoe on the sidelines and guys like Stevenson and Billy Elliot running through the middle...yep...Collingwood's success is all because of Buckley and Banger

[The Peanut]

Harvey going from Collingwood's midfield group, facilities and support structures to ours would be the equal of Jack Brabham taking over a billy-cart club! What he and Buckley have achieved has nothing to do with what he may or may not have done with our group!

Harves applied for the job twice from what I remember ... but loyalties aside, the reality is we have Rats now, and it's not as if he needs time to get to know the playing group, support staff and club officials etc - so he gets his opportunity to take us to the promised land Good luck young fulla

[Enrico_Misso]

I'm glad Banger didn't get the role.

He may have done wonders with the Collingwood mids though, let's be honest, there is a fair bit to work with.
But as a leader he is not, never has been, and never will be, an inspirational speaker.

Had he been appointed we would have faced a double whammy
- more wasted years of underachieving
- ending in the pain of sacking a club legend

Ratts ticks all the right boxes.
Stop the bickering and let's get right behind him.

[barks4eva]

Hero worshipping at its finest and most cringeworthy.

What absolute garbage and small mindedness.

Very sheep like perception by some in their disregard of those who wanted Robert Harvey and echoed by many on here.

This thought pattern and assessment is sadly lacking in perspicacity and perspicuity.

Am I small minded and have a sheep like perception because I do not know whether Harves will be a good or dud coach or because I don’t agree with your opinion?

The "sheep like perception" was a direct response to to your comment that I quoted,
"Hero worshipping at it's finest and most cringeworthy".

You and many others seem to assume the only reason anyone would want Robert Harvey as senior coach is due to hero worship and nothing of substance beyond that.

I find that to be an ignorant and cringeworthy view.

[desertsaint]

I am not against Harvs, he is a legend. He has as huge heart, passion and vision.

But if he was a senior coach why has he not been selected by the many clubs needing a senior coach every year? 10 yrs an assitant, no offers. Comments seem to reflect our board are the only idiots nor seeing his potential.

Why no offers? Bad luck maybe? Timing? Maybe he hasn't shown interest in clubs he believed were not a good fit? I sure hope he gets a gig somewhere somehow.

I do think Ratts as Director and Harvs as coach could have worked.

Ratts has also not been scouted by any clubs as a senior since his Carlton sacking, despite three flags at the Hawks as an assistant. I don't think Harvs has ever put himself up for a senior gig anywhere else. Could be that other clubs realise his wants to coach the saints - that is his dream, so maybe would question whether he would bring another club the same level of committment.

Des, that is just five wild guesses.

how so? there is no subterfuge in an assistant being approached for a gig. if we hear nothing of harvey or ratts having been approached then it is a safe assumption neither has.
The same with him putting his hand up. We know he has at the Saints. we would know if he had elsewhere.
The last point is obviously pure conjecture. Most of this debate is, but i was replying to a criticism used against harvey when the exact same point could be held against ratts.

[st.byron]

Hero worshipping at its finest and most cringeworthy.

What absolute garbage and small mindedness.

Very sheep like perception by some in their disregard of those who wanted Robert Harvey and echoed by many on here.

This thought pattern and assessment is sadly lacking in perspicacity and perspicuity.

Am I small minded and have a sheep like perception because I do not know whether Harves will be a good or dud coach or because I don’t agree with your opinion?

The "sheep like perception" was a direct response to to your comment that I quoted,
"Hero worshipping at it's finest and most cringeworthy".

You and many others seem to assume the only reason anyone would want Robert Harvey as senior coach is due to hero worship and nothing of substance beyond that.

I find that to be an ignorant and cringeworthy view.

Barks, he’s been through due process along with all the other applicants. You have zero personal knowledge of the applicants’ presentations or what transpired during that due process. It is therefore, a reasonable and logical conclusion that you’re basing your opinion on something else, which, given the degree of emotive output coming from you on the subject, appears to be about something other than just qualifications, experience and the selection process.

[Joffa Burns]

Hero worshipping at its finest and most cringeworthy.

What absolute garbage and small mindedness.

Very sheep like perception by some in their disregard of those who wanted Robert Harvey and echoed by many on here.

This thought pattern and assessment is sadly lacking in perspicacity and perspicuity.

Am I small minded and have a sheep like perception because I do not know whether Harves will be a good or dud coach or because I don’t agree with your opinion?

The "sheep like perception" was a direct response to to your comment that I quoted,
"Hero worshipping at it's finest and most cringeworthy".

You and many others seem to assume the only reason anyone would want Robert Harvey as senior coach is due to hero worship and nothing of substance beyond that.

I find that to be an ignorant and cringeworthy view.

Other than being a champion of the club, I'm yet to hear a valid case for why Harves should have been appointed above Ratten.

The Collingwood midfield coach?
Collingwood have recruited a ready made gun midfield on top of their existing stocks
- Pendlebury a 300 game champion
- Adam Treloar a first round draft pick recruited after 70 odd games
- Taylor Adams a first round draft pick recruited after 40 odd games
- Grundy the best ruck/mid in the competition
- Sidebottom one of the best skilled players in the competition
- Beams gun midfielder returning to the club

No doubt he has a very strong and positive influence on them, but they were stars or budding stars well before Harves was involved with them.

Their midfield runs so deep they can afford to play De Goey & Stephenson forward and Phillips, Crisp & Langdon on flanks and in defence.

Their depth would walk into our seniors like Aish, Wells (if fit), Greenwood etc.

Please provide an insight as to why the club should have chosen Harves over Ratten?
I reiterate I have no idea as to who the best candidate was and pretty sure you don't either, the difference between Harves and Ratten is Harves was a St Kilda champion.

I can comfortably state that posters on this site writing open letters to Haves apologising for him not being selected as coach and suggesting he'll take his bat and ball and go home & never forgive us is nothing but hero worship and is absolutely cringeworthy.

Each to their own, I have no idea who the best candidate was and would love to understand how people who were not involved in the interview process can claim to have such knowledge.

[freely]

It's all academic eh. Like the GT/Lyon argument. Who can say? I'm one who - unfortunately - feels sick as s*** that we've got a Carlscum coach. I wish I could think of him some other way. Hopefully over time I will. At the moment, all I can think is that Ratten's unfinished business is that he really really wanted to be the one to coach the Blues to another flag. But just as we're stuck with him, he's stuck with us. In the words of the poet, "It is what it is."

[To the top]

The sides that have exclusive access to ANZAC Day (as an example) have an inside running when it comes to attracting players from other Clubs (so playing in front of 100,000 at the MCG instead of in front of 20,000 at Docklands)

That is a selling point

Then you get to Rule changes such as Free Agency plus the eventual changes to Father/Son

So some sides are advantaged, like it or not

The history is that St Kilda has not been advantaged to the level some other Clubs have been

That said, due process was followed in appointing the Coach and we have the result

To me at least, Ratten is experienced and capable

His message to Members and supporters was grounded and reasoned - along the lines of tell me what you can do not what you can’t do

So we are a work in progress and enjoy the ride

I doubt that Harvey would be saying anything different if he had been appointed

And he would be starting from the exact same start point as is Ratten

The difference is that Ratten now has 3 years to progress the on field fortunes of the St Kilda FC

We wish him well

He will have the support of the Administration, the support staff and the players

No doubt some of the supporter base will remain fickle expecting above sensible and evolving achievement benchmarks

This is a young List

[saintspremiers]

Imagine how hard today is for Ratts and his flashbacks.

It’s rotten on too many levels at the moment.

[magnifisaint]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/09/12/ ... -scotland/

[Life Long Saint]

I'm one who - unfortunately - feels sick as s*** that we've got a Carlscum coach.

Did you like Ken Sheldon? Or was it different because he played for us?

[Enrico_Misso]

At the B&F last night Harves' tribute to Spud was the least powerful.
Buckets did a superb job.
And Bourkey managed to get a few laughs as well as extolling Danny's wonderful attributes.

I was a tremendously difficult gig but Harvey was quite wooden.
It wasn't so much what he said.
More the way he said it didn't inspire an audience that was yearning for inspiration.

Later on Ratts spoke about where he hopes to lead this club.
The words were the sort of words that we have all heard before from a string of coaches.
But Ratts actually said them in such a way that he inspired belief.

Later on further Gears spoke brilliantly and clearly embraced the Ratten vision and actually expressed his love for where Ratten was taking them.
Clearly Ratts has the total buy-in from the players.

Time will of course tell.
But based on all observable evidence I believe our Board has made the right decision.
And the strong endorsements from the players and the warm reception from the floor indicates most of the StK community are in agreement.

Time for the minority smitten by their hero worship of Harvey to move on and get behind Ratts.

As our President said ...
"2020 is the Year of the Ratt!"

[St Loxton]

Banger for assistant coach

Last night I dreamt that was true, he wanted to be back home at Morrabbin.

[longtimesaint]

At the B&F last night Harves' tribute to Spud was the least powerful.
Buckets did a superb job.
And Bourkey managed to get a few laughs as well as extolling Danny's wonderful attributes.

I was a tremendously difficult gig but Harvey was quite wooden.
It wasn't so much what he said.
More the way he said it didn't inspire an audience that was yearning for inspiration.

Later on Ratts spoke about where he hopes to lead this club.
The words were the sort of words that we have all heard before from a string of coaches.
But Ratts actually said them in such a way that he inspired belief.

Later on further Gears spoke brilliantly and clearly embraced the Ratten vision and actually expressed his love for where Ratten was taking them.
Clearly Ratts has the total buy-in from the players.

Time will of course tell.
But based on all observable evidence I believe our Board has made the right decision.
And the strong endorsements from the players and the warm reception from the floor indicates most of the StK community are in agreement.

Time for the minority smitten by their hero worship of Harvey to move on and get behind Ratts.

As our President said ...
"2020 is the Year of the Ratt!"

I think this is a little unfair to Harves as he was very upset.
His family and Danny Frawley were very close.

[saintspremiers]

Banger for assistant coach

Last night I dreamt that was true, he wanted to be back home at Morrabbin.

We wish. Just need Banger to accept he’s not cut for senior coaching (maybe GC excepted).

The loss of Spud May influence Banger. It’s hurt him hard. I really feel for those blokes. Now we need Plugger back also