Ratten gets the gig

[santazzi]

My best wishes to Ratten. I believe Ross Lyon is the one who got away. Yes: I will certainly renew my membership.

[barks4eva]

Richo MKII
Watters MKIII

Very pissed

No vision

Ratten is a massive mistake.

He says he will do everything within his power to make all Saints fans proud.

Are you saying you doubt his sincerity?

How can you possibly say he has no vision? He's been coaching the Saints for less than five minutes, relatively speaking.

Now that's he's the senior coach, let's just see how he goes. He deserves that, at the very least, don't you think?

I was not referring to Brett Ratten as having no vision.

I was referencing the coaching selection committee.... Matt Finnis, Simon Lethlean etc...

I do not think Brett Rattan is a bad choice.

I just happen to firmly believe Robert Harvey was a much better choice.

I also obviously don't buy into all the negative garbage about Robert Harvey not having what it takes to be a senior coach.

Very disappointed for Robert Harvey having now been rejected twice and this time after having done a TEN YEAR apprenticeship.

In the six games Brett Ratten had as caretaker coach I saw nothing to elevate him as anything special.

After being forward coach for most of the year... our forward line was abysmal and struggled to kick over ten goals most games, he took over as caretaker coach.

The first up win against the Bulldogs was super impressive... however I think a Sumatran Orangutan would have achieved a similar result after the shackles of six years of monotone drivel from Richardson were released.

I was interested to see what would follow

19 point win over second bottom Melbourne when nearly everyone was beating Melbourne.
Also the standard of football slipped back to pre-Ratten.

22 point loss to a shyte and dysfunctional Adelaide when at that time they were getting pantsed regularly.

3 point win over Fremantle with two late goals to steal it.
Fremantle should never have lost that game and St.kilda were VERY lucky to win it.

10 point loss to third bottom Carlton.

45 point loss to fourth bottom Sydney in a truly insipid and uninspiring performance.
It was atrocious football and a truly spiritless display.

All up very lucky to have not lost the last four games on the trot.

Aside from the first game breath of fresh air against the Western Bulldogs, things slipped back the very next week to the same standard pre-Ratten. Nothing much had changed.

Somehow judging by the reaction on here Brett Ratten is the next Alistair Clarkson.

Did no one on here watch the last five games ?

I do think things will improve but any improvement would have been matched by Robert Harvey and then some in my firm belief.


So enjoy the fact a sacked Carlton coach and sacked Hawthorn assistant coach recommended by a selection committee that included Matt Finnis, the one responsible for wasting this whole year of football through his incompetent stupidity of extending Richardson's contract, is the new coach...revel in the fact that a CARLTON legend has been appointed coach at the expense of a S.KILDA legend who has now been rejected twice after having done a TEN year apprenticeship.

I don't underestimate and devalue Robert Harvey like many on here seem to do and I think the club has missed a massive opportunity to make the optimal quantum leap.

The coaching selection committee made up of AFL corporates with no real passion for the club... they are there to further their own careers and feather their own nests.

AND

Please can anyone explain to me how Matt Finnis and Simon Lethlean are somehow qualified to select an AFL coach ?

ANYONE ?

AND

Please can anyone explain how after being just as shyte for the last five weeks of the year as St.kilda were for the first 16 games of the year under Richardson, Brett Ratten is somehow the safe bet and popular choice?

[carn_sainter]

Good post, barks. Hard to disagree with it. Every time he talks, Finnis is underwhelming. Like you, I'm a little annoyed that the club has such a mercenary flavour to it.

[takeaway]

Richo MKII
Watters MKIII

Very pissed

No vision

Ratten is a massive mistake.

He says he will do everything within his power to make all Saints fans proud.

Are you saying you doubt his sincerity?

How can you possibly say he has no vision? He's been coaching the Saints for less than five minutes, relatively speaking.

Now that's he's the senior coach, let's just see how he goes. He deserves that, at the very least, don't you think?

I was not referring to Brett Ratten as having no vision.

I was referencing the coaching selection committee.... Matt Finnis, Simon Lethlean etc...

I do not think Brett Rattan is a bad choice.

I just happen to firmly believe Robert Harvey was a much better choice.

I also obviously don't buy into all the negative garbage about Robert Harvey not having what it takes to be a senior coach.

Very disappointed for Robert Harvey having now been rejected twice and this time after having done a TEN YEAR apprenticeship.

In the six games Brett Ratten had as caretaker coach I saw nothing to elevate him as anything special.

After being forward coach for most of the year... our forward line was abysmal and struggled to kick over ten goals most games, he took over as caretaker coach.

The first up win against the Bulldogs was super impressive... however I think a Sumatran Orangutan would have achieved a similar result after the shackles of six years of monotone drivel from Richardson were released.

I was interested to see what would follow

19 point win over second bottom Melbourne when nearly everyone was beating Melbourne.
Also the standard of football slipped back to pre-Ratten.

22 point loss to a shyte and dysfunctional Adelaide when at that time they were getting pantsed regularly.

3 point win over Fremantle with two late goals to steal it.
Fremantle should never have lost that game and St.kilda were VERY lucky to win it.

10 point loss to third bottom Carlton.

45 point loss to fourth bottom Sydney in a truly insipid and uninspiring performance.
It was atrocious football and a truly spiritless display.

All up very lucky to have not lost the last four games on the trot.

Aside from the first game breath of fresh air against the Western Bulldogs, things slipped back the very next week to the same standard pre-Ratten. Nothing much had changed.

Somehow judging by the reaction on here Brett Ratten is the next Alistair Clarkson.

Did no one on here watch the last five games ?

I do think things will improve but any improvement would have been matched by Robert Harvey and then some in my firm belief.


So enjoy the fact a sacked Carlton coach and sacked Hawthorn assistant coach recommended by a selection committee that included Matt Finnis, the one responsible for wasting this whole year of football through his incompetent stupidity of extending Richardson's contract, is the new coach...revel in the fact that a CARLTON legend has been appointed coach at the expense of a S.KILDA legend who has now been rejected twice after having done a TEN year apprenticeship.

I don't underestimate and devalue Robert Harvey like many on here seem to do and I think the club has missed a massive opportunity to make the optimal quantum leap.

The coaching selection committee made up of AFL corporates with no real passion for the club... they are there to further their own careers and feather their own nests.

AND

Please can anyone explain to me how Matt Finnis and Simon Lethlean are somehow qualified to select an AFL coach ?

ANYONE ?

AND

Please can anyone explain how after being just as shyte for the last five weeks of the year as St.kilda were for the first 16 games of the year under Richardson, Brett Ratten is somehow the safe bet and popular choice?

A Sub Commitee of Bassat, Finnis, Lethean, Anderson & AFL Head of Coaching David Rath seems a pretty well balanced group to select a coach to me. What are the qualifications to select an AFL coach? I doubt many here would have much of an idea.

There's no safe bet in the selection, and bad luck for Harves, was pretty close apparently. Maybe Finnis & Lethlean were keen on Harves, but not the other three. Who knows?

[Jacks Back]

[minneapolis]

After our first loss in Round 1 next year, will the ferals turn on The Ten?

[axcellence]

Some good posts in the thread.

Firstly, Congratulations to Ratten and good luck!

One thing I always liked about Ratten that despite the Carlton background, he always respected St Kilda during his coaching days. He gave Harvey his first job as an assistant coach.

Some people have levelled criticism about him not being a St Kilda person. Well, Stan Alves, Ken Sheldon, Ross Lyon, et al came from different clubs. Even Grant Thomas started at North. So, it’s vital to get someone who respects the club and is the best candidate at the time.

I agree that after the first game, things kind of fizzled out with Ratten. His forward coaching stint didn’t produce great results. But as a lot will agree, the thing that didn’t work was the forward delivery, and one can’t make a lot of changes as a caretaker with 6 weeks left to go.

Unfortunately, Clarkson wasn’t available, so Saints went his apprentice. If one cares to look, how many of them have won premierships? One did win the spoon, but you could guess that one the day he was appointed.

To expect a premiership from Ratten in 3 years is unfair with the list being in such a spot now with Steven leaving and Carlisle’s attitude.

Richo got so many aging A graders, to support a rebuild. Ratten doesn’t have that. The 2013 rebuild has failed. Acres, Dunstan, Sinclair, Lonie, Freeman, McCartin, McKenzie, Goddard, Long, etc. never ended up as automatic locks for the 22.

So, I think Ratten’s situation is different. But, on the surface, he’s impressed with his enthusiasm and his Carlton career although boosted by Eddie and Judd, still showed good coaching ability. I think that’s all we can hope for at this stage. So much depends on factors outside coaching control yet gets lumped in with it.

Let’s hope for a good trade and draft, and see what comes next season before leaning too much one way or the other on the coach.

[oldie60]

If Harvey was mean't to be a senior coach he would have been chased by many clubs prior to this position being available. I too love Robert Harvey but he has not single handedly coached a group at any other level and i believe that is probably what holds him back. Congrats to Ratten but regardless of coaching skill he too could suffer the same fate as many others if we don't improve the list. You need to have the cattle on the park and we were tarnished by Lyon not developing and recruiting when we were at the top (ie Hawthorn ) and then some poor coaching choices. The whole organization needs to buy into the vision and not just expect and blame one facet.

[Special]

I know for a fact from a someone who spoke to Ratts that he believes our biggest issue is lack of skill- specifically too many one sided players. That’s pretty clear to see and what a lot of us have bemoaned for years! Finally we have a coach who rates skill above just work ethic!

When you listen to Ratts maiden speech at his coronation he talked about how we need A grade talent and we have some potential in Clarke, Marshall and maybe even Battle getting to that status.

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

[takeaway]

I know for a fact from a someone who spoke to Ratts that he believes our biggest issue is lack of skill- specifically too many one sided players. That’s pretty clear to see and what a lot of us have bemoaned for years! Finally we have a coach who rates skill above just work ethic!

When you listen to Ratts maiden speech at his coronation he talked about how we need A grade talent and we have some potential in Clarke, Marshall and maybe even Battle getting to that status.

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

I don't know many assistant coaches with a notable public presence, you only really gain a public presence when you are head honcho. Even a well known like Sam Mitchell has been low profile, apart from a bit of media attention when he came back to Hawks. I didn't know Ross Lyon was an assistant at Sydney until he came to Saints, and developed his "public presence". So I believe your point about "lack of public presence" is irrelevant.

Unless he gets a gig elsewhere, I don't see why Harves won't be Saints coach in the future. I think if Ratts was an applicant like Harves, not a caretaker having been an assistant for the year, Harves would have got the job.

[chook23]

I know for a fact from a someone who spoke to Ratts that he believes our biggest issue is lack of skill- specifically too many one sided players. That’s pretty clear to see and what a lot of us have bemoaned for years! Finally we have a coach who rates skill above just work ethic!

When you listen to Ratts maiden speech at his coronation he talked about how we need A grade talent and we have some potential in Clarke, Marshall and maybe even Battle getting to that status.

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

I don't know many assistant coaches with a notable public presence, you only really gain a public presence when you are head honcho. Even a well known like Sam Mitchell has been low profile, apart from a bit of media attention when he came back to Hawks. I didn't know Ross Lyon was an assistant at Sydney until he came to Saints, and developed his "public presence". So I believe your point about "lack of public presence" is irrelevant.

Unless he gets a gig elsewhere, I don't see why Harves won't be Saints coach in the future. I think if Ratts was an applicant like Harves, not a caretaker having been an assistant for the year, Harves would have got the job.

I agree being the caretaker coach gave an edge.......

[linmarnic]

Congratulation on the appointment Brett.

We will never know if Harvs would have been a better selection and no point really speculating now that Brett has been appointed.

I believe that Brett is a good appointment because he has more than just the criteria required to be a good coach. He also has certain intangibles gained through tragedy in his personal life and to a lesser amount through what happened to him at Carlton. These tragic and unfortunate events have built in him a strong will and desire to achieve his dreams and God knows he deserves a turn in fortune and luck. Let’s hope he is provided the resources on and off the field to achieve the success he and all of us desire on the football field and for himself and family.

All the best Brett.

[goods]

[/quote]
AND

Please can anyone explain to me how Matt Finnis and Simon Lethlean are somehow qualified to select an AFL coach ?

ANYONE ?

[/quote]

I know one thing you are not qualified to select an AFL coach, so I think I'll go with the committee thank you.

[Scollop]

I'm not sure if the tragedy in his life has anything to do with his desire to coach at the highest level, or whether the tragedy in his life has added any skills that he didn't already possess to carry out his tasks as an AFL coach. It may have I suppose

I'm sure that the tragedy that occurred meant that he had to reassess his priorities at the time, and he had to focus most of his energy towards supporting his family which probably delayed his progress in achieving another senior gig

I watched a couple of his interviews from 9-10 years ago when he was Carlton coach and I think I gained the impression that he is a person who is driven by his goals and he has unfinished business.

Some people just do the work and some like Ratts have only 1 purpose for taking on the role. He wants to hold up the cup. I believe he has the knowledge and skills to help our club achieve the ultimate

Get behind him Sainters

[barks4eva]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

[Sanctorum]

I respect your admirable opinions about Robert Harvey barks4eva and only time will tell if he will eventually get a senior appointment at any AFL club.

There have been quite a few assistant coaches in the AFL who like Harvey have worked at that level for 10 or more years without getting called up to a top job, which can only mean that they were never considered to be good enough to steer a team to a premiership.

Brett Ratten has the advantage of both incumbency at St Kilda, as well as being in charge at Carlton with an OK record. It is quite clear that the playing group has fully endorsed Ratten as their coach, and the selection committee would have taken this into account, as they should. Likewise comments of a similar nature from Nick Riewoldt and Leigh Montagna on Fox Footy yesterday.

Your denunciation of both Finnis and Lethlean is without foundation - you assert that it was Finnis who made what proved to be a bad decision to extend Richardson contract in 2017, when in reality this was a corporate decision fully endorsed by the club Board, and it disrespects the Board to suggest that either Finnis or Lethlean can act in any way without their full support.

My advice to you is that if you or anyone else who thinks like this strongly enough, then put your money where your mouth is and do what you can to change the Board, much the same as a group of Richmond members did some years ago when Hardwick was struggling to get the Tigers to fire...ranting on SS achieves little more than letting off steam!

[satchmo]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Yes, this comment is extremely unfair.

[Special]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Yes, this comment is extremely unfair.

So you guys think Banger can communicate well with the media?

I doubt it.

He’s still a legend of our club as a player - doesn’t make you a senior coach - look at KB, Michael Tuck and many others.

[Special]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Yes, this comment is extremely unfair.

So you guys think Banger can communicate well with the media?

I doubt it.

He’s still a legend of our club as a player - doesn’t make you a senior coach - look at KB, Michael Tuck and many others.

[satchmo]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Yes, this comment is extremely unfair.

So you guys think Banger can communicate well with the media?

I doubt it.

He’s still a legend of our club as a player - doesn’t make you a senior coach - look at KB, Michael Tuck and many others.

I don't think that public speaking is one of Robert's strengths, nor did I prefer him as senior coach, but if you are going to call him a "dullard" then perhaps should take a good look at yourself... preferably by tearing your own eyes out, and holding them a good distance from your head.

[saynta]

well not happy at all. we played safe and continue on the same path.
but he's our coach and gotta wish him all the best in the job and hope he proves us doubters wrong.
no doubt there will be a lot of very frustrated and angry saints fans if he doesn't. he won't be given the same length of grace richo received. this is a team five years in the making, and unrealistic expectation or not, it is time for it to contend.

The team might be 5 years in the making but if you listen to all the Trade talk, it could be one pre season to potentially decimate it.

Spot on.

[saintsRrising]

well not happy at all. we played safe and continue on the same path.
but he's our coach and gotta wish him all the best in the job and hope he proves us doubters wrong.
no doubt there will be a lot of very frustrated and angry saints fans if he doesn't. he won't be given the same length of grace richo received. this is a team five years in the making, and unrealistic expectation or not, it is time for it to contend.

The team might be 5 years in the making but if you listen to all the Trade talk, it could be one pre season to potentially decimate it.

Spot on.

The worrying thing is too is that if the rumours are true in who we are chasing, is that who we are chasing largely seems to be all over the shop with no real strategy and way too many older players.

I do worry that Lethers thinks that he can swap a few players around and win the flag in 2020.

Hopefully now that Ratten is officially the coach he can insert a bit more reason into who we are pursuing.

[Special]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Yes, this comment is extremely unfair.

So you guys think Banger can communicate well with the media?

I doubt it.

He’s still a legend of our club as a player - doesn’t make you a senior coach - look at KB, Michael Tuck and many others.

I don't think that public speaking is one of Robert's strengths, nor did I prefer him as senior coach, but if you are going to call him a "dullard" then perhaps should take a good look at yourself... preferably by tearing your own eyes out, and holding them a good distance from your head.

So you agree with me. Why are you so upset then?
It’s just an expression that’s the truth and you’ve confirmed you know that.

Don’t be so precious

[Leo.J]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Bark what are you basing your endorsement of Harves on?

Have you ever spoken to him or heard him speak at length as a coach or about coaching?

[SaintPav]

Barks banged on about Banger - but his lack of public presence is a real issue and probably the reason he will never be a senior AFL coach anywhere.

Have a look at Richo - he spoke with a bag of marbles in his mouth constantly and could never talk the walk (he also couldn’t coach but that’s another issue!). Why would we want a dullard communicator as coach, isn’t 6 years enough??

You think Robert Harvey is a dullard communicator.



You are so wrong!

Bark what are you basing your endorsement of Harves on?

Have you ever spoken to him or heard him speak at length as a coach or about coaching?

He was on the interview panel