Doggies offer 3 to 4 year deal for Bruce

[johnnyrayflamingo]

Why is everyone upset about our list management?

My understanding is the Dogs have made Bruce an offer he probably can't refuse.

I've also heard they've made us an offer we can't refuse. I don't know what that offer is!

Because many Saints fans are scared of major change. It's another reason we have fallen behind as a club at times. We need to start being ruthless like the Hawks.

[B.M]

Ruthless with old players who are past it, or fringe players

Hawthorn don’t get rid of many good players

Us on the other hand?..

[Ghost Like]

Ruthless with old players who are past it, or fringe players

Hawthorn don’t get rid of many good players

Us on the other hand?..

Who have we got rid of that didn't want to go? (That has stopped us winning a flag or even playing finals)

[freely]

I'm not sure ruthless fans are the answer.

[B.M]

I don’t know?...

Nick Dal Santo, Brendon Goddard, Luke Ball, Matt Maguire, Ben McEvoy, Rhys Stanley, Tom Lynch, Hugh Goddard, Barry Hall, Brent Guerra, Peter Everett, Joel Smith, Matty Lappin, Shane Wakelin, Darryl Wakelin, Jamie Shanahan, TONY LOCKETT, Nicky Winmar, Gilbert McAdam, Dean Rice, Russell Green, Val Perovic, Carl Ditterich, IAN STEWART

There would be more... that’s just off the top of my head.

[Ghost Like]

Ben McEvoy didn't want to go, either did Lynch. Pretty sure the others did or moved to stave off retirement.

Green, Perovic, Ditterich & Stewart...long live the VFL. All bar Ditterich would be thanking us.

Hugh Goddard??? What did we receive in that trade? Oh, that's right, he wasn't.

[B.M]

Of course most wanted to go... the question has got to be

Why do players (some great) want to leave the club?!

Or if they didn’t/don’t

Why did we get rid of them?!

On Goddard
I put him in, because I don’t think his AFL journey is over. I thought it was when he was with us, he looked sh*t at Sandy.
He has had an outstanding year at Carlton in the VFL and ended up getting a few senior games. A 22yo still, I think he might actually make it.

[The Barometer]

Why is everyone upset about our list management?

My understanding is the Dogs have made Bruce an offer he probably can't refuse.

I've also heard they've made us an offer we can't refuse. I don't know what that offer is!

Because many Saints fans are scared of major change. It's another reason we have fallen behind as a club at times. We need to start being ruthless like the Hawks.

Also doesn't suit the grandiose delusions that some posters with a slither of information think that know more/better than everyone who is actually making a living being a professional in the industry.

[B.M]

Smoke... fire imo

Bruce, Steven, Carlisle will be gone... otherwise there’d be no story there.

[Ghost Like]

Of course most wanted to go... the question has got to be

Why do players (some great) want to leave the club?!

Or if they didn’t/don’t

Why did we get rid of them?!

On Goddard
I put him in, because I don’t think his AFL journey is over. I thought it was when he was with us, he looked sh*t at Sandy.
He has had an outstanding year at Carlton in the VFL and ended up getting a few senior games. A 22yo still, I think he might actually make it.

I liked Hugh and thought we'd stolen one there until his Achilles snapped, along with my dreams. It was like the power steering on the QE2 snapping. All power to him for a good season this year.

[saintbob]

Smoke... fire imo

Bruce, Steven, Carlisle will be gone... otherwise there’d be no story there.

What about the s*** ball users, Newnes, Ross, Savage, Lonie, Parker, McKenzie, Geary and Rice surely after Ratten’s last press conference After the Sydney game 4 or 5 of these must go.

[SinCitySainter]

If we do trade with either the doggies or the pies, the other name being bandied around, I would be demanding either a quality midfielder say a Hunter or next years first round pick. They will not give us a star midfielder for Bruce but may give us a player just below their absolute cream. The same for Collingwood.
Otherwise it should be for next years first rounder to help us grab Ben King.
He is in contract and they are apparently really keen as they are willing to pay him handsomely, supposedly higher than the 600K he is currently on.
We need to hold out and make them pay for him if they want him.

[Spinner]

If we do trade with either the doggies or the pies, the other name being bandied around, I would be demanding either a quality midfielder say a Hunter or next years first round pick. They will not give us a star midfielder for Bruce but may give us a player just below their absolute cream. The same for Collingwood.
Otherwise it should be for next years first rounder to help us grab Ben King.
He is in contract and they are apparently really keen as they are willing to pay him handsomely, supposedly higher than the 600K he is currently on.
We need to hold out and make them pay for him if they want him.

Don't think we are getting a first round pick or Hunter.

[SinCitySainter]

If we do trade with either the doggies or the pies, the other name being bandied around, I would be demanding either a quality midfielder say a Hunter or next years first round pick. They will not give us a star midfielder for Bruce but may give us a player just below their absolute cream. The same for Collingwood.
Otherwise it should be for next years first rounder to help us grab Ben King.
He is in contract and they are apparently really keen as they are willing to pay him handsomely, supposedly higher than the 600K he is currently on.
We need to hold out and make them pay for him if they want him.

Don't think we are getting a first round pick or Hunter.

It is being reported that they are offering us and him a deal we can't refuse. If that is true then a pick in the 10 to 18 range is not unrealistic. Anything less and we can and should refuse it. They will need to pay overs as we don't need to get rid of him.

[Spinner]

If we do trade with either the doggies or the pies, the other name being bandied around, I would be demanding either a quality midfielder say a Hunter or next years first round pick. They will not give us a star midfielder for Bruce but may give us a player just below their absolute cream. The same for Collingwood.
Otherwise it should be for next years first rounder to help us grab Ben King.
He is in contract and they are apparently really keen as they are willing to pay him handsomely, supposedly higher than the 600K he is currently on.
We need to hold out and make them pay for him if they want him.

Don't think we are getting a first round pick or Hunter.

It is being reported that they are offering us and him a deal we can't refuse. If that is true then a pick in the 10 to 18 range is not unrealistic. Anything less and we can and should refuse it. They will need to pay overs as we don't need to get rid of him.

‘Too good to refuse’ is a subjective assessment. And relative.

Example, any football contract would be too good for me to refuse.

[saintbob]

The dogs had 2 AA Mids this season and will be playing finals.

We beat them, but overall they are a fair bit better, especially through the middle

Bruce will thrive there

I guess you're replying to CQ and if so you failed to address the point they made.

Bruce may or may not thrive, either way I do not see him kicking these 70+ goals people suddenly believe he's capable of. He will thrive because they continue to win games on the back of a AA midfield.

We keep him, bank our 36 goals for 2020 and scratch our heads why we weren't able to significantly change our list to get us out of the bottom six. Then realise our midfield is so poor it has made Brad Hill look slow.

There was no mention of 70+ goals by anyone other than CQ, who was putting his own relish on it to get his point across.
I’ll guess we’ll have to wait and see next year.

[saintsRrising]

Yes Dogs are playing finals. A significant reason is that they have a fantastic midfield group.

Yes Saints are not playing finals. A significant reason is that they have a poor midfield group.


How do we improve our midfield? Well one way may be if our trade for Bruce is good enough is to use what we get to gain such a player, or players.

Now Hill may be one, and that may require our Pick 5 either directly or in some variation. But we need at least 2 quality mids.

If we do not improve our midfield then we can stack our forward line as much as we like, but we will still not become a contender.

I rate Bruce for what he does. But the key here will be how valuable a deal is it that Dogs will actually offer. If it is just their second rounder, then that value will probably not really help us with our biggest problem.

[B.M]

It won’t be about how many goals Bruce kicks at the dogs

It will be about how many

Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Dale, Dickson, Lloyd kick as a collective (a lot imo) and what role Bruce plays in that group.

[CQ SAINT]

The dogs had 2 AA Mids this season and will be playing finals.

We beat them, but overall they are a fair bit better, especially through the middle

Bruce will thrive there

I guess you're replying to CQ and if so you failed to address the point they made.

Bruce may or may not thrive, either way I do not see him kicking these 70+ goals people suddenly believe he's capable of. He will thrive because they continue to win games on the back of a AA midfield.

We keep him, bank our 36 goals for 2020 and scratch our heads why we weren't able to significantly change our list to get us out of the bottom six. Then realise our midfield is so poor it has made Brad Hill look slow.

There was no mention of 70+ goals by anyone other than CQ, who was putting his own relish on it to get his point across.
I’ll guess we’ll have to wait and see next year.

I didn't mention 70+. You did in regard to Cameron. Your estimate was 60-70 for Bruce. It's ok if you want to back out of it. He may even stay.

[CQ SAINT]

It won’t be about how many goals Bruce kicks at the dogs

It will be about how many

Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Dale, Dickson, Lloyd kick as a collective (a lot imo) and what role Bruce plays in that group.

This comment I agree with. Bruce will improve the forward structure. Especially if they intend to employ the bomb. Just joking. He will probably ruck too. He may increase his output by 30-50% but I feel they see him as a foil for their younger talls and a link at high CHF. Someone who buys them more time to press forward and get the ball into more dangerous areas.
If he leaves, and we get a ruckman who can ruck and mids who can deliver the ball, I don't see why Marshall couldn't do the same for us.

[SaintPav]

I'm finding the reports about Bruce a bit confusing.

It was firstly reported that he was devastated to hear at his exit interview a few weeks back that he is going to be shopped around. It was then reported that the Dogs have offered him a 4-5 year contract and will offer the Saints a deal that is too good to refuse. Collingwood are apparently also very interested in Bruce.

Bruce will help King transition into senior AFL footy so we need to keep him. Without him, King becomes vulnerable. Not sure what the Dogs can offer us that will make it an attractive proposition. I'm personally not interested in a pick in the 20s.

We need to keep.

[barneyboyz]

What do they have to offer in return?

Pick in the mid teens maybe. Do they have a suitable player we might want whom they’ll trade? What would be a good value deal for Josh? I hope he stays, but we have to give to get.

A 50 goal a year forward? Dogs first pick or tell your story walking, surely?

I hope this goes nowhere to be honest.

And also - remember that Bruce is a 50 goal a year KF playing in front of the worst midfield in the modern history of the AFL. Can you imagine how good Bruce would be with it being put lace out - to his advantage - by the likes of Bont, Dunkley, McCrae, Smith and Hunter??!?!?

FFS - he'd be a seriously damaging forward. Meanwhile - we'll presumably plod along with fvcking Seb Ross and Dunstan kicking mung floating torps over our blokes' heads for the forseeable.

A couple of thoughts

The biggest problem for Josh Bruce is that his leading patterns aren't to his advantage i.e. he mostly gets the footy out in the pockets. G Train used to do this also, but he had that turn, swing and kick that Bruce doesn't have, especially since he leads to the wrong side.

It also seems to me that Josh's vision isn't great under lights, where his marking can be pretty ordinary at times, although I feel that this season has been his best in this regard for a while.

Also, remember that Josh was meant to be the second forward behind Paddy, which now seems sad as it could have been great.

So, I would keep him as when Max is leading straight up the ground, Josh can be the overlap

[barneyboyz]

It won’t be about how many goals Bruce kicks at the dogs

It will be about how many

Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Dale, Dickson, Lloyd kick as a collective (a lot imo) and what role Bruce plays in that group.

This comment I agree with. Bruce will improve the forward structure. Especially if they intend to employ the bomb. Just joking. He will probably ruck too. He may increase his output by 30-50% but I feel they see him as a foil for their younger talls and a link at high CHF. Someone who buys them more time to press forward and get the ball into more dangerous areas.
If he leaves, and we get a ruckman who can ruck and mids who can deliver the ball, I don't see why Marshall couldn't do the same for us.

Marshall is less reliable at kicking for goal than Bruce and Membrey together

[CQ SAINT]

It won’t be about how many goals Bruce kicks at the dogs

It will be about how many

Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Dale, Dickson, Lloyd kick as a collective (a lot imo) and what role Bruce plays in that group.

This comment I agree with. Bruce will improve the forward structure. Especially if they intend to employ the bomb. Just joking. He will probably ruck too. He may increase his output by 30-50% but I feel they see him as a foil for their younger talls and a link at high CHF. Someone who buys them more time to press forward and get the ball into more dangerous areas.
If he leaves, and we get a ruckman who can ruck and mids who can deliver the ball, I don't see why Marshall couldn't do the same for us.

Marshall is less reliable at kicking for goal than Bruce and Membrey together

Of all our players, I trust Marshall's ability to focus and improve the most.

[barneyboyz]

It won’t be about how many goals Bruce kicks at the dogs

It will be about how many

Naughton, Schache, Bruce, Dale, Dickson, Lloyd kick as a collective (a lot imo) and what role Bruce plays in that group.

This comment I agree with. Bruce will improve the forward structure. Especially if they intend to employ the bomb. Just joking. He will probably ruck too. He may increase his output by 30-50% but I feel they see him as a foil for their younger talls and a link at high CHF. Someone who buys them more time to press forward and get the ball into more dangerous areas.
If he leaves, and we get a ruckman who can ruck and mids who can deliver the ball, I don't see why Marshall couldn't do the same for us.

Marshall is less reliable at kicking for goal than Bruce and Membrey together

Of all our players, I trust Marshall's ability to focus and improve the most.

Yeah, he will and it looks like they might see his abilities having more benefit as a forward too. It's going to take one hell of a tall back / Ruckman who's going to beat him over the next 10 years