Josh Bruce to be traded?

[Ghost Like]

Steven, fully fit would be a top 5 player at most clubs, top 3 player at some. He is a gun, who has been in the best 2 players at StK since 2013.

Why would we need a salary dump

As it stands we have no good players outside of Hannebury who deserve big coin. Not even AA squad of 40 players. Other clubs have up to 4 (or more) players better than our best player

I won't touch on the opening paragraph except to say where Steven is now is a long way from that picture you paint.

The highlighted bit is possibly what justifies trying to get what we can for Bruce, Carlisle & Steven. We have no 2nd or 3rd round picks to bundle up or use or trade. I am against trading away future picks, hence where we are this trade period.

So how do we bring in talent, change our list without offering up players who may allow that change? Answer: A club can't.

I agree that Bruce appears to love the club, the players & supporters but I'm not as convinced as some that he's required or as indispensable as some make out.

I'd like to know what was said to him in the lead up to the North game in Hobart. Was his future discussed then? For the first 15 rounds he kicked 18 goals, for the final 7 rounds he kicked 18 goals & played like a mobile, big, key forward should. I think the first 15 rounds are more Bruce than the final 7.

I suggest we cash in as we need to get our hands on fast, quality ball users & load up our draft picks if we want any hope of getting B King. If we do that, we will soon forget about Bruce.

[st.rod]

Joshie seemed to play better once Dermie came on board. Wouldn't trade him unless we got Dunkley,Mccrae or a really good midfielder from elsewhere. Bottom line though, you shouldn't trade heart and soul players. Shouldve kept BJ and NDS. To the trading mob keep all the little kids happy and retain Josh.

[To the top]

If you trade someone out, you then have to replace the player traded out including addressing the demographics of the List

The only players with trade currency will be players of value - that value also identified by at least one other Club

And that complicates the question of who we trade in as replacements - and I use the word replacements deliberately

So who is available to trade in and improve our List, and what will they cost?

Is it a rob Peter to pay Paul - so a zero sum game at best?

Particularly if we are trading out our thinly resourced KPP’s to trade in mids - where we have a surplus of big bodied mids so are specifically seeking run and carry mids with pace and skill (and if so who noting Hill as the probable prototype)

IF we could trade our Newnes and/or Sinclair for Hill (so like for like and an improvement) that is the improvement we look for - but it ain’t going to happen

So you don’t throw out the baby with the bath water - which seems the outcome from reporting and the desperation on this site by some contributing

Desperation leads to failure because reasoned decisions are not made

[Ghost Like]

Interesting that all the arguments / thoughts / theories are based on each individual's own assessment or rating of a player and by extension, the entire list.

St Kilda is suffering from their failure to address their midfield shortcomings, trade / draft period after trade / draft period. I remember reading here that some believe midfielders to be a dime a dozen, I wish our current midfield was worth a dime - we have no speed or quality in our midfield, Hannerbery addressed some of the quality but not the speed & durability is now in question.

We can't trade our mids or runners because they aren't worth enough to get what we need. Looking to trade Bruce & Carlisle can work if they restructure correctly. I think they can, I do not see either as being the "baby".

Time will tell, our List Manager, our Recruiter & our new Coach certainly need to work together and share the same vision.

[Impatient Sainter]

Interesting that all the arguments / thoughts / theories are based on each individual's own assessment or rating of a player and by extension, the entire list.

St Kilda is suffering from their failure to address their midfield shortcomings, trade / draft period after trade / draft period. I remember reading here that some believe midfielders to be a dime a dozen, I wish our current midfield was worth a dime - we have no speed or quality in our midfield, Hannerbery addressed some of the quality but not the speed & durability is now in question.

We can't trade our mids or runners because they aren't worth enough to get what we need. Looking to trade Bruce & Carlisle can work if they restructure correctly. I think they can, I do not see either as being the "baby".

Time will tell, our List Manager, our Recruiter & our new Coach certainly need to work together and share the same vision.

Agree look who wins most player awards, Brownlows or Norm Smith medals it is over whelmily elite midfielders. They win games and finals and St Kilda have been disgraceful in there recruiiting stategies when they continually over look elite midfielders to fill other holes in the list.

[Impatient Sainter]

Interesting that all the arguments / thoughts / theories are based on each individual's own assessment or rating of a player and by extension, the entire list.

St Kilda is suffering from their failure to address their midfield shortcomings, trade / draft period after trade / draft period. I remember reading here that some believe midfielders to be a dime a dozen, I wish our current midfield was worth a dime - we have no speed or quality in our midfield, Hannerbery addressed some of the quality but not the speed & durability is now in question.

We can't trade our mids or runners because they aren't worth enough to get what we need. Looking to trade Bruce & Carlisle can work if they restructure correctly. I think they can, I do not see either as being the "baby".

Time will tell, our List Manager, our Recruiter & our new Coach certainly need to work together and share the same vision.

Agree look who wins most player awards, Brownlows or Norm Smith medals it is over whelmily elite midfielders. They win games and finals and St Kilda have been disgraceful in there recruiiting strategies when they continually over look elite midfielders to fill other holes in the list.

[B.M]

Josh Bruce is in the bottom 5 players I’d trade

Too important structurally

[Nick_BlueNRG]

Ryder is absolutely shot if we get him we should be shot!

Post of the century PADDLEPOP1001.

With your permission I would like to make it my signature!!!!!?????

[groupie1]

None of those players kick 40 per year

Which Key Forward is going to protect Max King next year, so he doesn’t get the gorilla defender at 19yo

Yeah., Good point. I don't get the J Bruce talk.... unless it is prompted by another club that wants him. I'd be keeping him.

[groupie1]

They could be looking for something along these lines next year:

B: Geary, Wilkie, Tomlinson
HB: Clark, Battle, Savage
C: Hill, Steele, Hannebery
HF: Billings, Marshall, Hind
F: Parker, King, Membrey

Foll: Ryder, Gresham, Ross
Int: Coffield, Dunstan, Paton, Sinclair

Well Pick 5 will gain Hill.

Ryder should only require a 4th rounder or less.I would be surprised if GWS matched.

So with both Carlisle and Bruce gone you would hope that only occurs because they have some specific QUALITY players that will be joining. So question here is WHO does Lethers have in mind?

Steven if he goes may gain a second rounder or even Constable.

I'm hearin' this but is it not realistic enough to insist on a Steven-Kelly-Hill three-way and hold onto pick 5?
Freo win in that trade.
And Geel would be prepared to wear it, maybe with a late pick going to them from FREO thrown in; its as good as they'll get it. Kelly will walk.

[groupie1]

Hell... they can have Jack Newnes, too, if that makes it happen!! This then protects 5 for us

[saintsRrising]

I'm hearin' this but is it not realistic enough to insist on a Steven-Kelly-Hill three-way and hold onto pick 5?
Freo win in that trade.

If you could go back a year in time then yes.

But here and now in 2020, NO.

At the end of 2020:
-Kelly is significantly worth more than Hill
-Hill is significantly worth more than Steven

A three way deal of these three clubs may happen. But that requires the Cats to put in extra and the Saints even more.

If it was say:
Kelly to Freo
Freo first, Steven. Saints 5 and some of Steven's salary paid by Saints to Cats
Hill and Constable to StKilda

...then I think that would be a great result for St Kilda and all parties reasonably happy

[barneyboyz]

Steven, fully fit would be a top 5 player at most clubs, top 3 player at some. He is a gun, who has been in the best 2 players at StK since 2013.

Why would we need a salary dump

As it stands we have no good players outside of Hannebury who deserve big coin. Not even AA squad of 40 players. Other clubs have up to 4 (or more) players better than our best player

I won't touch on the opening paragraph except to say where Steven is now is a long way from that picture you paint.

The highlighted bit is possibly what justifies trying to get what we can for Bruce, Carlisle & Steven. We have no 2nd or 3rd round picks to bundle up or use or trade. I am against trading away future picks, hence where we are this trade period.

So how do we bring in talent, change our list without offering up players who may allow that change? Answer: A club can't.

I agree that Bruce appears to love the club, the players & supporters but I'm not as convinced as some that he's required or as indispensable as some make out.

I'd like to know what was said to him in the lead up to the North game in Hobart. Was his future discussed then? For the first 15 rounds he kicked 18 goals, for the final 7 rounds he kicked 18 goals & played like a mobile, big, key forward should. I think the first 15 rounds are more Bruce than the final 7.

I suggest we cash in as we need to get our hands on fast, quality ball users & load up our draft picks if we want any hope of getting B King. If we do that, we will soon forget about Bruce.

Josh had a very similar injury to his captain, which he did on the same day, so I absolutely understand why he was down for much of the first half of the season.

His second half of the year did have some games (and including some from very early) that were very very good.

I ask myself one question. If I was Josh, Membrey or any other leading forward, how would I feel when I turn to lead and see that Seb Ross has the footy?

[st.byron]

I'm hearin' this but is it not realistic enough to insist on a Steven-Kelly-Hill three-way and hold onto pick 5?
Freo win in that trade.

If you could go back a year in time then yes.

But here and now in 2020, NO.

At the end of 2020:
-Kelly is significantly worth more than Hill
-Hill is significantly worth more than Steven

A three way deal of these three clubs may happen. But that requires the Cats to put in extra and the Saints even more.

If it was say:
Kelly to Freo
Freo first, Steven. Saints 5 and some of Steven's salary paid by Saints to Cats
Hill and Constable to StKilda

...then I think that would be a great result for St Kilda and all parties reasonably happy

Seems a little overs to me. Effectively, under that scenario we give up pick 5, Jack Steven and a chunk of cash for Hill and Constable.

A couple of objections to that scenario :
I think pick 5 is overs for Hill. If Saints can split that pick for a couple in the low teens and give up one of them, that would be a better balance IMO. Acres may also have something to do with that deal.

I think Jack Steven is worth more than Charlie Constable and paying some of his salary to the Cats. Straight swap Stuv for Constable - yeah maybe and worth a punt. But anything additional to that I’d like to see more benefit coming back to us rather than going to the Cats.

[St Loxton]

I wouldn't be surprised if Steven gets to Geelong he has a cracking season.
He's virtually had the season off so with a solid pre-season, and a fresh headspace, the excitement of playing for a strong team with a huge premiership chance.
He won't get the best defenders on him.
He still has that early burst of speed and great vision.
Unfortunately i think we will get massive unders for him.

[saintsRrising]

A couple of objections to that scenario :
I think pick 5 is overs for Hill. If Saints can split that pick for a couple in the low teens and give up one of them, that would be a better balance IMO. Acres may also have something to do with that deal.

Taking my St Kilda fan hat off:
- I think a single pick in the teens will not get the Hill deal done
- Is a teens pick and Acres that much different to pick 5 alone?
- Well that would really depend on how Freo rate Acres.
- And it may also really depend on what Freo need to prise Kelly out of the Cats.

Also sorts of deals and sweeteners are possible.

ie
It could be:
- 5 and Acres gets us a Hill and a 2nd or 3rder back.
- 5 and Acres gets us a Hill and Tucker


Hill of all the players that are said to be available is the won that excites me the most and the one who I believe can make the most difference to our team both next year and the next few years
(as to why, well read this https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/mitch- ... 2174461cef )

If we have to pay a little overs for Hill I am comfortable with that as:
- We need QUALITY. We have ample role and depth players at the club. What we need is more midfield class and a player like Hill on the outside will make up for the deficiencies of Steele, Dunstan and Ross. His pace will get him there to support them and to provide an out for their extractions.
- We are not the most attractive date at the dance.

[freely]

I wouldn't be surprised if Steven gets to Geelong he has a cracking season.
He's virtually had the season off so with a solid pre-season, and a fresh headspace, the excitement of playing for a strong team with a huge premiership chance.
He won't get the best defenders on him.
He still has that early burst of speed and great vision.
Unfortunately i think we will get massive unders for him.

If the shoe were on the other foot, I'd be very wary of taking him - might never get back to his best and his best was always short of AA.

[saintsRrising]

I wouldn't be surprised if Steven gets to Geelong he has a cracking season.
He's virtually had the season off so with a solid pre-season, and a fresh headspace, the excitement of playing for a strong team with a huge premiership chance.
He won't get the best defenders on him.
He still has that early burst of speed and great vision.
Unfortunately i think we will get massive unders for him.

I do not disagree with any of that. But if he stays we equally could have another year of bugga all from him.
Sometimes you just have to cut you losses and make the best of it. I think this is so now.

The only way it will not be would be if Steven has a complete turn around and decides that he really wants to still play with us. But even that still has the risk of him still going AWOL next year.

[st.byron]

A couple of objections to that scenario :
I think pick 5 is overs for Hill. If Saints can split that pick for a couple in the low teens and give up one of them, that would be a better balance IMO. Acres may also have something to do with that deal.

Taking my St Kilda fan hat off:
- I think a single pick in the teens will not get the Hill deal done
- Is a teens pick and Acres that much different to pick 5 alone?
- Well that would really depend on how Freo rate Acres.
- And it may also really depend on what Freo need to prise Kelly out of the Cats.

Also sorts of deals and sweeteners are possible.

ie
It could be:
- 5 and Acres gets us a Hill and a 2nd or 3rder back.
- 5 and Acres gets us a Hill and Tucker


Hill of all the players that are said to be available is the won that excites me the most and the one who I believe can make the most difference to our team both next year and the next few years
(as to why, well read this https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/mitch- ... 2174461cef )

If we have to pay a little overs for Hill I am comfortable with that as:
- We need QUALITY. We have ample role and depth players at the club. What we need is more midfield class and a player like Hill on the outside will make up for the deficiencies of Steele, Dunstan and Ross. His pace will get him there to support them and to provide an out for their extractions.
- We are not the most attractive date at the dance.

Yes agree Hill is right for us and it’s exciting that he does, if reports are correct, want to come. Also agree that its more likely the Hill deal will be a mix of players and picks. It’s all speculation, who knows wtf will happen, but Hill plus a second rounder for a low teens pick and Acres would be ok with me. Splitting our first rounder into 2 picks gives us a bit more flexibility, especially if we have players to trade as well.

I see what you mean about what Freo need to get Kelly. They might actually need a top five pick and they might want it from us.

That article by Mitch Robinson is really good. Very interesting. Am going to the Lions / Tigers final this weekend and really looking forward to seeing the two midfields go at it.

[Joffa Burns]

Steven, fully fit would be a top 5 player at most clubs, top 3 player at some. He is a gun, who has been in the best 2 players at StK since 2013.

Why would we need a salary dump

As it stands we have no good players outside of Hannebury who deserve big coin. Not even AA squad of 40 players. Other clubs have up to 4 (or more) players better than our best player

I won't touch on the opening paragraph except to say where Steven is now is a long way from that picture you paint.

The highlighted bit is possibly what justifies trying to get what we can for Bruce, Carlisle & Steven. We have no 2nd or 3rd round picks to bundle up or use or trade. I am against trading away future picks, hence where we are this trade period.

So how do we bring in talent, change our list without offering up players who may allow that change? Answer: A club can't.

I agree that Bruce appears to love the club, the players & supporters but I'm not as convinced as some that he's required or as indispensable as some make out.

I'd like to know what was said to him in the lead up to the North game in Hobart. Was his future discussed then? For the first 15 rounds he kicked 18 goals, for the final 7 rounds he kicked 18 goals & played like a mobile, big, key forward should. I think the first 15 rounds are more Bruce than the final 7.

I suggest we cash in as we need to get our hands on fast, quality ball users & load up our draft picks if we want any hope of getting B King. If we do that, we will soon forget about Bruce.

I recall (can't state when exactly) Dermot speaking mid season on Foxtel stating Josh had entered the season with his mobility hampered a little from injury but was moving well and had his mobility back from mid season.

Perhaps that is a partial explanation.

[Saintmatt]

Steven, fully fit would be a top 5 player at most clubs, top 3 player at some. He is a gun, who has been in the best 2 players at StK since 2013.

Why would we need a salary dump

As it stands we have no good players outside of Hannebury who deserve big coin. Not even AA squad of 40 players. Other clubs have up to 4 (or more) players better than our best player

I won't touch on the opening paragraph except to say where Steven is now is a long way from that picture you paint.

The highlighted bit is possibly what justifies trying to get what we can for Bruce, Carlisle & Steven. We have no 2nd or 3rd round picks to bundle up or use or trade. I am against trading away future picks, hence where we are this trade period.

So how do we bring in talent, change our list without offering up players who may allow that change? Answer: A club can't.

I agree that Bruce appears to love the club, the players & supporters but I'm not as convinced as some that he's required or as indispensable as some make out.

I'd like to know what was said to him in the lead up to the North game in Hobart. Was his future discussed then? For the first 15 rounds he kicked 18 goals, for the final 7 rounds he kicked 18 goals & played like a mobile, big, key forward should. I think the first 15 rounds are more Bruce than the final 7.

I suggest we cash in as we need to get our hands on fast, quality ball users & load up our draft picks if we want any hope of getting B King. If we do that, we will soon forget about Bruce.

Josh had a very similar injury to his captain, which he did on the same day, so I absolutely understand why he was down for much of the first half of the season.

His second half of the year did have some games (and including some from very early) that were very very good.

I ask myself one question. If I was Josh, Membrey or any other leading forward, how would I feel when I turn to lead and see that Seb Ross has the footy?

Great question - well asked. Add Dunstan to that question too. In any case - I think I'd just keep running to the bench. Both of those two poor decision making ball butchers by foot would more than likely miss you anyway so, you might as well head off for a breather. So happy Ratten has called out this shite skill level (whereas the previous numpty aided and abetted it)

[freely]

Great question - well asked. Add Dunstan to that question too. In any case - I think I'd just keep running to the bench. Both of those two poor decision making ball butchers by foot would more than likely miss you anyway so, you might as well head off for a breather. So happy Ratten has called out this shite skill level (whereas the previous numpty aided and abetted it)

This is so ridiculous. What you're complaining about was explicitly Ratten's responsibility all year. And you're looking forward to him being in charge of the whole show!

[Saintmatt]

Great question - well asked. Add Dunstan to that question too. In any case - I think I'd just keep running to the bench. Both of those two poor decision making ball butchers by foot would more than likely miss you anyway so, you might as well head off for a breather. So happy Ratten has called out this shite skill level (whereas the previous numpty aided and abetted it)

This is so ridiculous. What you're complaining about was explicitly Ratten's responsibility all year. And you're looking forward to him being in charge of the whole show!

Bollocks it is ridiculous. Ratten was in charge of forwards and transition. So - he was acutely aware of the crap his forwards had dished up to them week after week by the spuds charged with being the conduit from back to front.

Use your brain and think - in the same way Teague couldn't publicly denounce Bolton's rubbish negative game style that stifled skill and intuition (now acknowledged by Carlton as a point of contention between Bolton and his assistants); Ratten couldn't publicly bag the crap out of the perpetrators mid-season when he couldn't trade/delist them out so - he took it upon himself to out them immediately after the season and put everyone with shite skills on notice. Perfect! Our crap skills have been on show for years and yet, name me one time - in-season or post - when Cho uttered anything like Ratten did after the Sydney game?

By the way - it wasn't a complaint ... more a factual observation that I'd invite you to refute should you be able to muster an alternative set of facts.

[resaintlee]

With Dermie and now Roughie to help him it would be stupid to trage Bruce out
He is capable of being all over the ground and with their help, an even better player

[Rubyjo]

Dermis contract is over..