Ryder to Saints (two year deal)

[CQ SAINT]

You're on an internet forum. There's certain etiquette that makes forum discussions flow and make sense for everyone involved.


The quote function is a fundamental one.

It is, and if no one used the quote function the forum would be unreadable. BM can only can make sense of it because he is the only one that does not quote.

BM has a chip on his shoulder and this oddly is one way that he chooses to try and knock the chip off. That it actually achieves the complete opposite has not entered his thinking. This only adds to the chips that he carries.

BM only cares about what he has to say. No length of conversion, quotations or detailed evidence can change that. Thankfully he usually repeats himself once, then stops.

[B.M]

You better get used to it, or better still ignore my posts?!

I just don’t see the sense in re-reading the same comments over and over again.

If you are too stupid to follow a thread, it’s not my problem.

Spinner, I don’t often reply to you because that’s what I think of you... not much

[Spinner]

You better get used to it, or better still ignore my posts?!

I just don’t see the sense in re-reading the same comments over and over again.

If you are too stupid to follow a thread, it’s not my problem.

Spinner, I don’t often reply to you because that’s what I think of you... not much

Oh the irony. You reply to pretty much all of my posts... JUST like this one above. Another lie and another murky attempt to hide by not using quoting.

I did get used to it, then you left...

Also, still refusing to explain how this trade is comparable in the slightest to 2009. But don’t worry, your silence provides a lot of answers.

[maverick]

You're on an internet forum. There's certain etiquette that makes forum discussions flow and make sense for everyone involved.


The quote function is a fundamental one.

It is, and if no one used the quote function the forum would be unreadable. BM can only can make sense of it because he is the only one that does not quote.

BM has a chip on his shoulder and this oddly is one way that he chooses to try and knock the chip off. That it actually achieves the complete opposite has not entered his thinking. This only adds to the chips that he carries.

Yup
Don’t know why he is back, we haven’t missed him....

[BarryGrogan]

I just don’t see the sense in re-reading the same comments over and over again.

You only quote the specific post, sentence or paragraph you're referring to.

[asiu]

Don’t know why he is back, we haven’t missed him...

i have !!

i love his work
... plenty to read about the place
when he’s sharing his pov

go the tassy boy



ps
bring plugger back whilst we’re at it

[fugazi]

Always enjoy BMs perspective. Usually pretty insightful.
He just has a blunt matter of fact manner.
Doesn't bother me.

[Rubyjo]

Leave Big Mart alone he is fine.

[asiu]

yea
that’ll work






leave him alone you bullies

[BackFromUSA]

I couldn't agree more. Leave him alone. If his opinion or his writing style bothers you then please just FOE him. He is allowed an opinion on football and he is allowed to express it.

As for quoting ... it is definitely polite to do so, but if it offends you that he doesn't quote the specific part that he is referencing in his reply, then either take some time to work it out OR don't bother. If it annoys you to the level of bullying and abuse, I suggest the FOE function.

[Joffa Burns]

Good to see BM posting here again.

Sure he’s a prickly sort of customer at times but let he who is without posting quirk be the sole judge.

Critique his footy commentary as you wish but please don’t drive him out with the personal insults.

[asiu]

lol @ posting quirk

i like
... wish i’d written it

[Devilhead]

It’s so stupid

That it’s something StK will do

It’s a wonder we don’t try and convince Sandilands to come out of retirement?!

The only positions we don’t need are Ruck and Key Forward
We are recruiting in a has been Ruckman and trading out a good key forward

I might he a bit slow on the uptake but hey ....... Big Mart is back!!!

Welcome Back BM

I picked it on Page 2 you gumbies - credit where credit is due!

[barneyboyz]

I see the logic there. We take a guy who may be as good, or better, than Grundie in the ruck and instead try and turn into being a CHF a role that I doubt he will be as good in. (Did you not see his contested ball work in the ruck contests this year?)

And we make do with for our No 1 Ruck a guy past his best who will only keep fading. 2021 he will be worse.

The irony there of course is that Port are squeezing out Ryder as they want to give the 21 year old Ladham's his head. And you want the Saints do the opposite and insert Ryder as our No 1 ruck

Meanwhile our perfectly capable Bruce who at 27 is now in his peak years as a CHF we give the heave ho....

With a strategy like that a wooden spoon or two beckons.

Does not make any sense does it? and yet, it might just happen

[silverhalo]

Paddy has nominated Saints as his club of choice according to AFL News , Trade Rumours , Results on Facebook

[BarryGrogan]

I see the logic there. We take a guy who may be as good, or better, than Grundie in the ruck and instead try and turn into being a CHF a role that I doubt he will be as good in. (Did you not see his contested ball work in the ruck contests this year?)

And we make do with for our No 1 Ruck a guy past his best who will only keep fading. 2021 he will be worse.

The irony there of course is that Port are squeezing out Ryder as they want to give the 21 year old Ladham's his head. And you want the Saints do the opposite and insert Ryder as our No 1 ruck

Meanwhile our perfectly capable Bruce who at 27 is now in his peak years as a CHF we give the heave ho....

With a strategy like that a wooden spoon or two beckons.

Does not make any sense does it? and yet, it might just happen

Grundy was beaten by a better ruck combination in last year's GF.
Neither of that combination can even get a game now - but as a combo they made their team better than what Grundy did.

Melbourne are pathetic and they have the best ruckman in the comp.

A good ruck combination is more valuable to a team than one ruckman who stars but his team loses.

It's just a fact.


We will be a far better team if we can be competitive at all stoppages for 120 minutes for an entire season, as opposed to desperate fans fawning over the output of an individual whilst we finish in the bottom 4.

[saintsRrising]

I see the logic there. We take a guy who may be as good, or better, than Grundie in the ruck and instead try and turn into being a CHF a role that I doubt he will be as good in. (Did you not see his contested ball work in the ruck contests this year?)

And we make do with for our No 1 Ruck a guy past his best who will only keep fading. 2021 he will be worse.

The irony there of course is that Port are squeezing out Ryder as they want to give the 21 year old Ladham's his head. And you want the Saints do the opposite and insert Ryder as our No 1 ruck

Meanwhile our perfectly capable Bruce who at 27 is now in his peak years as a CHF we give the heave ho....

With a strategy like that a wooden spoon or two beckons.

Does not make any sense does it? and yet, it might just happen

Grundy was beaten by a better ruck combination in last year's GF.
Neither of that combination can even get a game now - but as a combo they made their team better than what Grundy did.

Melbourne are pathetic and they have the best ruckman in the comp.

A good ruck combination is more valuable to a team than one ruckman who stars but his team loses.

It's just a fact.


We will be a far better team if we can be competitive at all stoppages for 120 minutes for an entire season, as opposed to desperate fans fawning over the output of an individual whilst we finish in the bottom 4.

1/ Using the game as an example of one ruckman set-up vs a two ruck set up when BOTH teams actually each played TWO players who were capable in the ruck is a deeply flawed example:

Grundy/Cox vs Lycett/Vardy

2/ If your point is that WCE 2 rucks were better than the Pies 2 rucks at stoppages then 57 HOs to 27 HOs would suggest it was not so.

3/ And lastly since Cox has been out of the team recently I would argue that the Pies have been a better team with their one ruck set-up.

[BarryGrogan]

1/ Using the game as an example of one ruckman set-up vs a two ruck set up when BOTH teams actually each played TWO players who were capable in the ruck is a deeply flawed example:

Grundy/Cox vs Lycett/Vardy

2/ If your point is that WCE 2 rucks were better than the Pies 2 rucks at stoppages then 57 HOs to 27 HOs would suggest it was not so.

3/ And lastly since Cox has been out of the team recently I would argue that the Pies have been a better team with their one ruck set-up.

It's not specific that a 1 ruck setup will be beaten by a 2 ruck combo.

It's that having a good ruckman that performs well personally does not necessarily translate into being a better team. In many, many cases a good ruck combo proves to be far more effective than 1 really good ruckman.


Lade stated that last year, we roved to the opposition ruckman, because Marshall couldn't get hitouts.

Although Marshall had an excellent year and is a gun in the making - he didn't have an enormously positive influence at ruck contests.

My view is that adding an experienced ruckman to give us a good ruck combo, will be far more beneficial to us as a team.

[saintsRrising]

Although Marshall had an excellent year and is a gun in the making - he didn't have an enormously positive influence at ruck contests.

If that is measured by us getting away with the ball I would disagree as Marshall often:

• Grabs the ball which does not show as HO

• Wins the ground level clearance

• Tackles and or blocks to assist our mids

Plus he is so very, very green at ruck play and playing as a ruck will only improve him more in these aspects as well as in his tapwork.

[barneyboyz]

1/ Using the game as an example of one ruckman set-up vs a two ruck set up when BOTH teams actually each played TWO players who were capable in the ruck is a deeply flawed example:

Grundy/Cox vs Lycett/Vardy

2/ If your point is that WCE 2 rucks were better than the Pies 2 rucks at stoppages then 57 HOs to 27 HOs would suggest it was not so.

3/ And lastly since Cox has been out of the team recently I would argue that the Pies have been a better team with their one ruck set-up.

It's not specific that a 1 ruck setup will be beaten by a 2 ruck combo.

It's that having a good ruckman that performs well personally does not necessarily translate into being a better team. In many, many cases a good ruck combo proves to be far more effective than 1 really good ruckman.


Lade stated that last year, we roved to the opposition ruckman, because Marshall couldn't get hitouts.

Although Marshall had an excellent year and is a gun in the making - he didn't have an enormously positive influence at ruck contests.

My view is that adding an experienced ruckman to give us a good ruck combo, will be far more beneficial to us as a team.

A good example of a good ruck combo this year was Marshall and Bruce. Now Bruce isn't any kind of ruckman, but it works. Until of course (we saw this nearly come to be against Freo) when the actual ruckman gets hurt. Bruce rucking alone for 3 quarters and we most likely lose

I expect that when we get another crack at finals, to be any kind of chance in winning a flag we'll need a better ruck combo. I don't know if that's going to include Ryder? might be a more mature Max King?

[footynut]

The idea of Ryder seems much better than the reality will be. We need to be targeting a young up and coming ruck like Tom De Koning (Carlton), a mobile experienced VFL ruck who can get possessions around the ground or a forward that can punish hit in the ruck like Bruce.

Ryder just seems like a backward step & getting rid of Bruce seems ludicrous unless we are gaining someone who will boost our midfield dramatically. The only reason behind Bruce is a stop gap while a younger player ie Biggy (apologise about spelling) develops.

Please don’t waist Marshall’s potential!!!

[samoht]

Ryder adds nothing. Who do we blame here, the recruiters or Ratten (after all, we were happy to blame Richo for everything that we didn't like)?

Our hitout numbers were not great in 2019, but we still averaged 38.1 clearances per game, while Brisbane who averaged an incredible 22 more hitouts than us per game (and have the highest hitout numbers), only had 1.9 more clearances per game.
This is from our mediocre midfield with Steven missing for most of the season.

So we're talking about 38.1 clearances to us vs 40 to Brisbane the hitoutologists - on average - is this a big enough difference to worry about? What's the big deal about winning the hitouts (in raw numbers)?

We need to remember that Marshall cleared the ball himself quite a few times per game (he averaged 5.5 clearances per game).. and we get better quality clearances that way directly from him - he's an excellent kick.

[BackFromUSA]

Ok I am anti getting Ryder who appears past his prime but a note on ruck stats.

Don’t look at hitout stats.

Hitouts to advantage is the only meaningful stat they take.

You want them for your team and you want to stop them for the other team.

They create space and goals.

A midfielder that gets 35 possessions but gets zero effective inside 50s, zero goal assists or zero goals is not as valuable as midfielder that gets it 20 times and impacts inthe attacking part of the game.

Similar with ruck stats. A ruckman might get 35 hotouts but only 3 to advantage. If opponent gets 15 taps and 5 to advantage then the so called losing ruck actually assisted his team more both attacking wise and by limiting the opposition taps to advantage.

Having said all that - taps to advantage should be split into “down the throat” taps and “in direction of” a midfielder.

Ryder won a game for Port over us s few years ago with a tap to advantage.

I am not sure that he is AFL standard anymore.

[saintsRrising]

Ryder won a game for Port over us s few years ago with a tap to advantage.

I very much hope that what a player did once is not a reason for recruitment.

1/ Especially when at that moment Longer was suffering from concussion and Billings failed to guard the space that he should have.

So Paddy gets clear tap, and his target had clear space to run into that he should not have.

2/ Secondly when that moment was when Ryder was at an age when he was at his "peak" age, rather than the "golden oldie"age that we would be getting him at.

I am not sure that he is AFL standard anymore.

I would submit that he is not. Showed signs of being almost cooked this season.

[samoht]

Ok I am anti getting Ryder who appears past his prime but a note on ruck stats.

Don’t look at hitout stats.

Hitouts to advantage is the only meaningful stat they take.

You want them for your team and you want to stop them for the other team.

They create space and goals.

They sometimes create goals, not always

The flip side of what you're contending is - I have watched countless games where a ruckmen gets a clear hitout, but he nevertheless taps the ball to the clear advantage of the opposition midfielder - I'm not talking about the opposition midfielder here sharking the ball.
I'm referring to a "hitout clanger", if you like.. and there's plenty of them during a game.

Strangely, there''s no stat for this.

This explains how Brisbane can average 22 more hitouts than us - yet our clearance numbers end up being quite similar.

Having a dominant hitout ruckman should translate into a clearance dominance - as the dominant hitout ruckman would be out-reaching and directing the ball exactly where they want it to go in an ideal world -but it doesn't happen.in practise, because of the flip side - the unaccounted-for clanger hit outs.