Longer, Pierce, Rowe gone

[Shaggy]

Love it. Longer was terrible. His best year BY FAR was 2017 where he played 17 games for an average of 1 kick, 2 goals for the year and yes he averaged 39 hit outs in a team that finished 14th.
That was his best.

His 2015 was terrible

Hickey’s best season coincided with our best season of the entire Richo era.

However to accurately paint the picture, one has to be honest. Both Hickey and Longer were/overall terrible and Richo’s inability to recognise it and continual perseverance with both is an example of why our club is where it is.

To sit there and try to paint a picture that Longer was a “premier” ruck cruelled by injury is somewhere between delusional and idiocy

Disregarding that... of the two, Hickey has by far been the better player, had better numbers, played more, had a better career, had clubs willing to give up more

You appear to be rejoicing Longer being delisted after being injured for 2 years.

When Longer did have a full season in 2017 he was really good at hit-outs and clearances as a 24 year old which is why he was selected over Hickey.

Due to Longer's injury Hickey rucked in 2018 when 27 year old and he was average at best. By the end of the year it was fairly obvious both Pierce and Marshall had bypassed Hickey.

At least now you get your wish to make Marshall a part time ruck. Good luck with Ryder. Ryder is about the equivalent of Hickey these days. We can go back to the glory days of 2018 when Hickey was the main ruck.

[skeptic]

Love it. Longer was terrible. His best year BY FAR was 2017 where he played 17 games for an average of 1 kick, 2 goals for the year and yes he averaged 39 hit outs in a team that finished 14th.
That was his best.

His 2015 was terrible

Hickey’s best season coincided with our best season of the entire Richo era.

However to accurately paint the picture, one has to be honest. Both Hickey and Longer were/overall terrible and Richo’s inability to recognise it and continual perseverance with both is an example of why our club is where it is.

To sit there and try to paint a picture that Longer was a “premier” ruck cruelled by injury is somewhere between delusional and idiocy

Disregarding that... of the two, Hickey has by far been the better player, had better numbers, played more, had a better career, had clubs willing to give up more

Your lack of empathy for Longer is quite disgusting IMO. You appear to be rejoicing Longer being delisted after being injured for 2 years.

When Longer did have a full season in 2017 he was really good at hit-outs and clearances as a 24 year old which is why he was selected over Hickey.

Due to Longer's injury Hickey rucked in 2018 when 27 year old and he was average at best. By the end of the year it was fairly obvious both Pierce and Marshall had bypassed Hickey.

At least now you get your wish to make Marshall a part time ruck. Good luck with Ryder. Ryder is about the equivalent of Hickey these days.

Come off it. The way Hickey was attacked relentlessly on this forum by a select few was disgusting... the reality with Longer is that he was never that good... never really cemented his spot in the top 22 and was far from a good established player like the carry on suggested he was.
Injury may have derailed his last season and I hope he’s okay but it’s delusional to suggest that on form he was a great loss.

As far Marshall, I don’t know how to reason with you on this point anymore. You insist on misrepresenting the discussion we had 6 months ago where the suggestion on having him play forward was based on structure with what we had available... and the carry on is pathetic at this point.
I note that you fail to bring up the fact that I wanted him to play as our primary ruck more in 2018 when the carry on was still Hickey v Longer.

I have always maintained this year that he was our best ruck and the thing you’re being critical of was the notion of protecting him a bit from the physicality of carrying the ruck entirely by himself for 20+ rounds... which I’ll point out saw him tire on more than one occasion. Thankfully he wasn’t injured and yes he did incredibly well.

By all means however, continue to paint you’re incredibly bias, self-serving narrative... but you know that you’re full of it. I’ve obviously offended or irritated you for you to keep bringing this up in this context each and every time. Care to put this on the table?

[Joffa Burns]

Longer gone

Hickledick a finals bound ruckman

Where is StoneCold now? Probably embarrassed

Do you know we got Billy with the Compo pick for NDS

Don’t forget we traded out McEvoy and brought in Longer that trade period.

[Yorkeys]

Billy was so poor around the ground that it did beggar belief he was playing A grade. Two Hickeyisms sum up Tom for me, in one of his first games in NZ, a showcase moment for us, he dropped a sitter chest mark next to the posts - was nervous. The other is much later in his career, the infamous time he ran off the ground right past an opposition with the ball because he was focussed on interchange. Our next second ruck has to be able to walk and chew at the same time and catch chest marks when unopposed.

[takeaway]

Longer was a fantastic tap ruckman and the mid field loved having him at clearances.

Yeah, that’s why he’s been our premier ruck for 5 years and Hickey is on the scrap heap

He’s basically been forced out with concussion which ruined his entire season. Hickey isn’t exposed as he’s playing in the reigning premiers team.

How do you explain the 4 years before that

Explain what?

Longer was, if I recall correctly, the premier ruckman in 2014 , 2015 & 2017 (where he set the club record for hitouts).
Hickey had a good year in 2016, when Longer was injured, and didn't regain form, and Billy was injured for a lot of 2018, interrupted pre season, then ankle surgery mid year. Hickey therefore was the main ruck for a lot of 2018, but not greatly effective. In fact, a couple of really poor games.

I think Longer was always regarded as the main ruck by the whole club, not just Richo. Unfortunately, he has not been fit for a couple of years, and his main asset, hitout ability, is no longer as important. Concussion was probably the final straw.

Hickey has done OK with West Coast, but I'm pretty sure that they would still be playing finals if he had been injured all year. Good luck to him though.

Love it. Longer was terrible. His best year BY FAR was 2017 where he played 17 games for an average of 1 kick, 2 goals for the year and yes he averaged 39 hit outs in a team that finished 14th.
That was his best.

His 2015 was terrible

Hickey’s best season coincided with our best season of the entire Richo era.

However to accurately paint the picture, one has to be honest. Both Hickey and Longer were/overall terrible and Richo’s inability to recognise it and continual perseverance with both is an example of why our club is where it is.

To sit there and try to paint a picture that Longer was a “premier” ruck cruelled by injury is somewhere between delusional and idiocy

Disregarding that... of the two, Hickey has by far been the better player, had better numbers, played more, had a better career, had clubs willing to give up more

As you are aware, by "premier" ruckmen I meant No.1 at the Saints, which Longer obviously was. It has been debated forever on this forum, you think Hickey was better, he did play a few good games, but imo Longer was the better by quite a margin, did very well at the young age of 21 and 22 in 2014/15, and was very good in 2017, only to have 2018/19 wiped out due to injury.

Hickey had clubs willing to give up more? Source? Club kept Longer because he was the better of the two. Prove otherwise.

[Crossy66]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

[takeaway]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

I agree, he was never a "driven" trainer, and hence didn't give himself the best chance, certainly had the talent. All the best to him.

[Ghost Like]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

Thanks Crossy66, a fair bit of perspective there. Firstly, all the best Billy, I hope the symptoms subside and you can move on to the next chapter of your life.

In terms of our ruck situation post King & Gardiner, it's been a shambles. Thankfully all that pain ended with the discovery of Marshall, our accidental ruckman and likely next AA.

Hawthorn dodged a bullet when they got McEvoy as they wanted Longer. The argument about Longer & Hickey is best summed up when Pierce appeared our rucking saviour by the end of 2018. Quite ironic that all 3 are gone & Marshall has been unearthed as the real deal.

Takeaway, if I can butt in, WCE gave us something for Hickey plus took his salary. Longer was uncontracted, available to anyone & everyone. We thought that much of him we gave him a one year contract. Hickey held his spot even when NicNat returned & will be playing finals. Good luck to him but I'm stoked we have Marshall and not Hickey. Marshall we can build around after we dismantle the list that was built around Hickey & Longer.

[skeptic]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

Thanks Crossy66, a fair bit of perspective there. Firstly, all the best Billy, I hope the symptoms subside and you can move on to the next chapter of your life.

In terms of our ruck situation post King & Gardiner, it's been a shambles. Thankfully all that pain ended with the discovery of Marshall, our accidental ruckman and likely next AA.

Hawthorn dodged a bullet when they got McEvoy as they wanted Longer. The argument about Longer & Hickey is best summed up when Pierce appeared our rucking saviour by the end of 2018. Quite ironic that all 3 are gone & Marshall has been unearthed as the real deal.

Takeaway, if I can butt in, WCE gave us something for Hickey plus took his salary. Longer was uncontracted, available to anyone & everyone. We thought that much of him we gave him a one year contract. Hickey held his spot even when NicNat returned & will be playing finals. Good luck to him but I'm stoked we have Marshall and not Hickey. Marshall we can build around after we dismantle the list that was built around Hickey & Longer.

I think you’ve summed up the debate far better than I have.

Evidently I’ve come across a bit more spiteful towards Billy than intended. My dig was more directed at the people that ridiculed Hickey the way they did, implied he wasn’t fit to be an AFL player, wasn’t respected by the club and players and frequently suggested that he was worth less than Longer and would be overtaken by him.

Quite literally none of that was true. Longer was displaced from the team by rd3... injured or not, well and truly overtaken by Marshall. Meanwhile Tom is lining up for finals

[Wayne42]

Thoughts and prayers for Stonecold

No

[Wayne42]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

When did Longer get the concussion injury that has ruined his career ?

[samuraisaint]

Love it. Longer was terrible. His best year BY FAR was 2017 where he played 17 games for an average of 1 kick, 2 goals for the year and yes he averaged 39 hit outs in a team that finished 14th.
That was his best.

His 2015 was terrible

Hickey’s best season coincided with our best season of the entire Richo era.

However to accurately paint the picture, one has to be honest. Both Hickey and Longer were/overall terrible and Richo’s inability to recognise it and continual perseverance with both is an example of why our club is where it is.

To sit there and try to paint a picture that Longer was a “premier” ruck cruelled by injury is somewhere between delusional and idiocy

Disregarding that... of the two, Hickey has by far been the better player, had better numbers, played more, had a better career, had clubs willing to give up more

Your lack of empathy for Longer is quite disgusting IMO. You appear to be rejoicing Longer being delisted after being injured for 2 years.

When Longer did have a full season in 2017 he was really good at hit-outs and clearances as a 24 year old which is why he was selected over Hickey.

Due to Longer's injury Hickey rucked in 2018 when 27 year old and he was average at best. By the end of the year it was fairly obvious both Pierce and Marshall had bypassed Hickey.

At least now you get your wish to make Marshall a part time ruck. Good luck with Ryder. Ryder is about the equivalent of Hickey these days.

Come off it. The way Hickey was attacked relentlessly on this forum by a select few was disgusting... the reality with Longer is that he was never that good... never really cemented his spot in the top 22 and was far from a good established player like the carry on suggested he was.
Injury may have derailed his last season and I hope he’s okay but it’s delusional to suggest that on form he was a great loss.

As far Marshall, I don’t know how to reason with you on this point anymore. You insist on misrepresenting the discussion we had 6 months ago where the suggestion on having him play forward was based on structure with what we had available... and the carry on is pathetic at this point.
I note that you fail to bring up the fact that I wanted him to play as our primary ruck more in 2018 when the carry on was still Hickey v Longer.

I have always maintained this year that he was our best ruck and the thing you’re being critical of was the notion of protecting him a bit from the physicality of carrying the ruck entirely by himself for 20+ rounds... which I’ll point out saw him tire on more than one occasion. Thankfully he wasn’t injured and yes he did incredibly well.

By all means however, continue to paint you’re incredibly bias, self-serving narrative... but you know that you’re full of it. I’ve obviously offended or irritated you for you to keep bringing this up in this context each and every time. Care to put this on the table?

I have to agree with this. Hickey became the whipping boy by some on here and a few on here need to really think about the way they barrack for the team, because in some instances it seemed to get personal.

Hickey got a gig at the reigning premiers so I think the best footballer out of the three or four rucks we have had post McEvoy was clearly far and away Hickey. But I thank all of them for their service. We just got a bit too cute by half trading McEvoy, and we chose the wrong ruckman to get rid of at the end of last year when we traded Tom.

People can argue it any way they like but the two we kept played about three matches between them this season, and it was pure luck that RoCo has been as great as he has.

[Crossy66]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

When did Longer get the concussion injury that has ruined his career ?

Had a couple of bouts over last 2 years, but didnt recover from a knock at sandy earlier this year

[kosifantutti]

If what i' m hearing is true, Billy is in a bit of trouble with the concussion which is a bit sad.
As a player , he was elite as a junior and had all the tools, which is why he was a pick 7. At Brisbane he showed plenty, but was understudy to luenberger. So the saints decision to recruit him was sound enough. He had some good games with us, but for whatever reason never achieved the fitness levels required. Maybe him maybe us , maybe a little of both. I still think he had the raw talent though.
But given where he now sits with long term brain injury issues, it would be good if the forum gave the negative commentary a rest.

I never thought fitness was the biggest issue. The fact that he couldn’t take a mark was my greatest concern.

[asiu]

why didn’t Longer retire then ?

(if it’s health related)

[Crossy66]

why didn’t Longer retire then ?

(if it’s health related)

I dont know the answer to that. I assume he doesnt want to, much the same as paddy, robbo but he is ooc.

[King12]

Longer gone

Hickledick a finals bound ruckman

Where is StoneCold now? Probably embarrassed

Do you know we got Billy with the Compo pick for NDS

Not embarrassed you f****** <edited by mods>, Hickey would still be $600k a year, so, no chance of getting Hill or anyone else of any value, your a flog!!!!?

<permanent ban applied to king12 for abuse, breaching swear rule and homophobic commentary>

[ace]

We just trust the folly of retaining Longer

You do understand that no club wanted to trade for Longer last year?

The trade period was Long enough everyone wanted to go home.

[ace]

Longer gone

Hickledick a finals bound ruckman

Where is StoneCold now? Probably embarrassed

Do you know we got Billy with the Compo pick for NDS

Not embarrassed you f****** cocksucker, Hickey would still be $600k a year, so, no chance of getting Hill or anyone else of any value, your a flog!!!!?

Hey Stoney is your new hero Max King any good as a ruckman.
Future interchanging up forward with Marshall.

[samuraisaint]

Well, we know his brother Ben can play full forward and probably centre half-forward, but we won't know what Max can do in the seniors until next year now.

Bruce will interchange up forward with Marshall. That is what he has been doing unless the new coach has different ideas.
Very important that we keep Josh Bruce now so that King doesn't cop the biggest and best opposition monster defender every week.

[Linton Lodger]

Longer gone

Hickledick a finals bound ruckman

Where is StoneCold now? Probably embarrassed

Do you know we got Billy with the Compo pick for NDS

Not embarrassed you f****** <edited by mods>, Hickey would still be $600k a year, so, no chance of getting Hill or anyone else of any value, your a flog!!!!?

<permanent ban applied to king12 for abuse, breaching swear rule and homophobic commentary>

Essentially viewing:

Round 23 West Coast versus Hawthorn, start of the final quarter. Watch what Hickey dishes up at the first 2 centre bounces (to start the quarter & then after a goal) against Ceglar. In those moments Hickey demonstrates how soft he his and why we got rid of him.

[Special]

Longer gone

Hickledick a finals bound ruckman

Where is StoneCold now? Probably embarrassed

Do you know we got Billy with the Compo pick for NDS

Not embarrassed you f****** cocksucker, Hickey would still be $600k a year, so, no chance of getting Hill or anyone else of any value, your a flog!!!!?

Hey Stoney is your new hero Max King any good as a ruckman.
Future interchanging up forward with Marshall.

Interesting how this was deemed homophobic. It’s an expression that is never intended to be homophobic. I wouldn’t use it on this forum but I think the mod is misguided. Yes it’s clear abuse - no question on that aspect. Also can’t see where the swear rule has been violated as no swear word were used (apart from an f word that is asterisked)

[B.M]

By the tone of the reply

Clearly embarrassed

Haha

[BackFromUSA]

Longer gone

Hickledick a finals bound ruckman

Where is StoneCold now? Probably embarrassed

Do you know we got Billy with the Compo pick for NDS

Not embarrassed you f****** cocksucker, Hickey would still be $600k a year, so, no chance of getting Hill or anyone else of any value, your a flog!!!!?

Hey Stoney is your new hero Max King any good as a ruckman.
Future interchanging up forward with Marshall.

Interesting how this was deemed homophobic. It’s an expression that is never intended to be homophobic. I wouldn’t use it on this forum but I think the mod is misguided. Yes it’s clear abuse - no question on that aspect. Also can’t see where the swear rule has been violated as no swear word were used (apart from an f word that is asterisked)

You obviously have not read the rules! It qualified for a 1 week ban as follows:

Any post that negatively relates to or references, or baits (directly or indirectly) another poster, or posters, or group of posters in the Saintsational Fan Forum or leads to bickering to the level of an ongoing dispute, will be deemed a breach of rules and the penalty will be either a 1 DAY BAN or 1 WEEK BAN.

King12 negatively references B.M. - extreme level = 1 week ban

Swearing covered by the swear filter will be published as f***, s***, c***, c**k etc.

The community has been consulted and the word "dick" and "shyte" and the acronyms WTF, FFS, BS etc have been found to be acceptable and as such shall be deemed permissible in usage.

Attempts to circumvent the swear filter with terms with alternate spellings, or any usage of those words within another word OR an alteration of the swear word that may constitute the reader to understand that it is a swear word, will be deemed as a breach of swearing rule and a 1 DAY BAN will be issued. Severe cases will result in a 1 WEEK BAN.

King12 circumvented the swear rule by not writing it as c**ksucker. - also qulaifies as extreme because it is used as abuse - so 1 week ban

There will be ZERO tolerance for any sexist, racist, ageist, homophobic, religiously or culturally offensive, or highly sexually explicit terms or commentary in the Fan Forum or Private Messages.

Such behaviour is a breach and an automatic 1 WEEK BAN will be issued without warning.


King12 may not have intended for the term to be seen as homophobic (yet it is) and it is also a highly sexually explicit term - so either way - 1 week ban.

Please read and understand the rules. They are not that hard.

[asiu]

kingy i think you mean

?


edit : seeing if the ‘notification’ of edit
happens