Josh Bruce to be traded?

[happy feet]

What hope have we got when you consider putting Bruce up for trade when he and Membery form a formidable forward line with King to join them next year.
Doubt if McCartin will return so theirs another forward gone
I really see no sense in this at all.

Without having announced who our new coach is how can Zig and Zag make these announcements.
I seriously do think the boys club and AFL are on a mission,
Yes some of these decisions will upset supporters more importantly hurt out MEMBERSHIP numbers.

Zig and Zag....love it. If it wasn’t so bloody tragic it would be funny.

[barneyboyz]

I seriously struggle to believe we could trade Bruce. He is of enormous value to us, having worked through his form slump of a few years ago and his injuries of last year.

I couldn't believe the amount of bustling physical work he got through this year. I thought he was really effective. I still think he can be a 50+ goal per year forward if he gets better delivery.

Genuinely could not be moved on trading him without getting a top 10 pick in. He's got five years of very solid service left.

And he gives a stuff about the club. This rumour is as silly as they come; WB won't give up their first round pick so it's going nowhere.

He really could have benefited from a Max King playing along side this year. Next year, proviided he doesn't have to ruck could be a very big year for Josh

Absolutely have to keep him

[spert]

I know Bruce has put in some good efforts in recent years, but also has gone missing in a lot of matches, and for a guy who should be stamping his presence in the forward line, he doesn't do it much. Presuming King comes along, we can't carry them both in that forward line along with Membrey.

[B.M]

He’s a workhorse Forward

Absolutely required in 2020

If we trade him out the list management are inept

[saintsRrising]

I know Bruce has put in some good efforts in recent years, but also has gone missing in a lot of matches, and for a guy who should be stamping his presence in the forward line, he doesn't do it much. Presuming King comes along, we can't carry them both in that forward line along with Membrey.

What is there to carry with two quite different key forwards and a third tall as talented as Membrey. IMO it is actually the perfect set -up.

Doggies are reportedly after Bruce. Do you think that they will then banish Naughton to the backline?

[prwilkinson]

Hmmm seems strange, if anything, too much is left up to Bruce and he needs more help rather than being moved on.

[evertonfc]

Ok, I'm a bit rattled by his little clip on the news the other night.

He sounded like somebody who was told he he's going to be shopped around. He was very, very non-committal about what will happen - and I suspect that's because the club has told him it will be considering offers for him.

I'm deeply surprised by all of this. He's not perfect, but he's a heart and soul player, with many years of excellent service left to give.

The only player I could realistically reconcile with in a trade is Ben King. That's it.

If we did that, and brought in Ryder to play as a 75-25 up forward, it could almost work.

Either way, we need to buy a couple of "transition bodies" - who can take a battering - while the King boys reach 22-23.

[bigcarl]

I like Bruce. He gives it everything and I suspect his teammates love him. Puts his body on the line for the team time and again. A great club man by all accounts.

That said, I don’t think he can continue to be our main “go to” forward. Bombing it long to Josh is simply not the percentage play and too often gives opponents an opportunity to rebound.

He’s no Plugger, that’s for sure. Nor is he a Riewoldt or a G-Train or a Buckets. His hands aren’t good enough. He struggles to get separation on opponents.

Maybe we free him of the responsibility of that main “go to” forward role. Just play him as a mobile second ruck who can pinch hit in various positions. I could live with that. I think he’d give adequate support to Marshall. Definitely prefer that to Ryder.

Another option would be a move back to defence to replace Carlisle should he be traded.

You have to consider the impact of potentially trading a heart and soul player on his teammates. I hope he stays in a modified role.

[freely]

He’s a workhorse Forward

Absolutely required in 2020

If we trade him out the list management are inept

I thought that list management being inept was a given.

[barneyboyz]

I know Bruce has put in some good efforts in recent years, but also has gone missing in a lot of matches, and for a guy who should be stamping his presence in the forward line, he doesn't do it much. Presuming King comes along, we can't carry them both in that forward line along with Membrey.

Having King is exactly why we need to keep Josh. Without him, Max gets the #1 defender. Unless of course, Ben gets that #2 defender

All in all though, we could use them all effectively in that forward line, as well as Membrey. Both Kings are very agile/mobile and so are Bruce and Membrey

The little blokes would need to be very good though and provide much of the chase

[spert]

I know Bruce has put in some good efforts in recent years, but also has gone missing in a lot of matches, and for a guy who should be stamping his presence in the forward line, he doesn't do it much. Presuming King comes along, we can't carry them both in that forward line along with Membrey.

What is there to carry with two quite different key forwards and a third tall as talented as Membrey. IMO it is actually the perfect set -up.

Doggies are reportedly after Bruce. Do you think that they will then banish Naughton to the backline?

Maybe? or maybe send Bruce back to the backline? Bevo is a very smart operator, and Bruce is no better than some of the Dogs young guys coming through. I like the guy but he is a bit over-rated by some Saints supporters.

[outside66]

I like Bruce. He gives it everything and I suspect his teammates love him. Puts his body on the line for the team time and again. A great club man by all accounts.

That said, I don’t think he can continue to be our main “go to” forward. Bombing it long to Josh is simply not the percentage play and too often gives opponents an opportunity to rebound.

He’s no Plugger, that’s for sure. Nor is he a Riewoldt or a G-Train or a Buckets. His hands aren’t good enough. He struggles to get separation on opponents.

Maybe we free him of the responsibility of that main “go to” forward role. Just play him as a mobile second ruck who can pinch hit in various positions. I could live with that. I think he’d give adequate support to Marshall. Definitely prefer that to Ryder.

Another option would be a move back to defence to replace Carlisle should he be traded.

You have to consider the impact of potentially trading a heart and soul player on his teammates. I hope he stays in a modified role.

He finished with the 5th most contested marks in the comp so I don't think his hands are the problem. Also, think about who was feeding blokes like Plugger, Rooey, G-Train, and Buckets then compare the delivery Bruce cops each week. I agree with everything else you've put up though

[bigcarl]

I like Bruce. He gives it everything and I suspect his teammates love him. Puts his body on the line for the team time and again. A great club man by all accounts.

That said, I don’t think he can continue to be our main “go to” forward. Bombing it long to Josh is simply not the percentage play and too often gives opponents an opportunity to rebound.

He’s no Plugger, that’s for sure. Nor is he a Riewoldt or a G-Train or a Buckets. His hands aren’t good enough. He struggles to get separation on opponents.

Maybe we free him of the responsibility of that main “go to” forward role. Just play him as a mobile second ruck who can pinch hit in various positions. I could live with that. I think he’d give adequate support to Marshall. Definitely prefer that to Ryder.

Another option would be a move back to defence to replace Carlisle should he be traded.

You have to consider the impact of potentially trading a heart and soul player on his teammates. I hope he stays in a modified role.

He finished with the 5th most contested marks in the comp so I don't think his hands are the problem. Also, think about who was feeding blokes like Plugger, Rooey, G-Train, and Buckets then compare the delivery Bruce cops each week. I agree with everything else you've put up though

Ah, okay good stat, that would mean more if it took into account how many chances he had to mark as compared to the others. Also, as you mention, the quality of delivery going in.

[damienc]

The Saints are at a crossroads.

I suppose you could have been saying that since 1966.

But somehow this year seems to me to be more urgent.

New coach and a new roll of the dice.

Sometimes you have to give a little to get a little.

We urgently need an injection of speedy accurate users of the footy or we will continue going nowhere.

I personally would love to keep Josh but if it means getting two or more players that desperately fill our needs then so be it.

[B.M]

Still need the Pillars in place

We have too many defenders and small forwards, it would make more sense to get rid of players we don’t need.

And if the argument is that we would get something for Bruce, well perhaps that is because he has value?

[damienc]

Still need the Pillars in place

We have too many defenders and small forwards, it would make more sense to get rid of players we don’t need.

And if the argument is that we would get something for Bruce, well perhaps that is because he has value?

Yep. He definitely has value.

I also sense a serious culling is on the cards.

The question for the club, Does he have more value staying ? Or going? If it means we can really improve our list.

I would speculate for better or worse that is what they are thinking.

From this supporter's POV I am torn about JB. Love to keep him but also realise we need to find more pace and better distributors.

We are heavily linked to a couple of blokes who will give us that in spades.

[B.M]

How do you improve a list by getting rid of important players?

Steven is already gone. Another top ten player on the list (Bruce) with perhaps Carlisle?

How is that making the list better?

Even if we get some quality, isn’t that only going to replace the quality going out?

Surely you’d just want to add quality to your list?!

[Ghost Like]

What is interesting is that we have all these delistings (admittedly, Longer, Pierce, Rowe & Armo aren't earth shattering) and rumours of key players being shopped around (Carlisle, Bruce & Acres) and we don't have a coach.

Or do we? They are holding off on the announcement to make it seem like they are doing due diligence & it's a "close call".

How can a club interview for a coach with a given set of players & then gets that job but the players available are considerably different?

[stkfc1]

I know Bruce has put in some good efforts in recent years, but also has gone missing in a lot of matches, and for a guy who should be stamping his presence in the forward line, he doesn't do it much. Presuming King comes along, we can't carry them both in that forward line along with Membrey.

Having King is exactly why we need to keep Josh. Without him, Max gets the #1 defender. Unless of course, Ben gets that #2 defender

All in all though, we could use them all effectively in that forward line, as well as Membrey. Both Kings are very agile/mobile and so are Bruce and Membrey

The little blokes would need to be very good though and provide much of the chase

Agree. Max is a beanpole and will find it out hard against most other teams #1 defender for the next year or two. Due to his height though he'll demand the #1 or #2 defender which means Bruce and Members gets relegated down the line of defenders and can get off the chain a bit. Members is already facing #1 defenders at times. Imagine if he only had to deal with 3rd or 4th defenders. He'll kick 60+ a season , IF we ever manage to fix our appalling F50 entries.
I see Max playing more a decoy role next year. His job will be to clear space and draw defenders away for Bruce and Members to work in. Defenders wont be able to let King run around unchecked, again purely for his height. It gives us so much more flexability which and is why I believe Bruce needs to stay.
Hopefully Max can make an impact early and really give our forward line a better dynamic as its so predictable right now.

[older saint]

How do you improve a list by getting rid of important players?

Steven is already gone. Another top ten player on the list (Bruce) with perhaps Carlisle?

How is that making the list better?

Even if we get some quality, isn’t that only going to replace the quality going out?

Surely you’d just want to add quality to your list?!

Devils advocate:

Perhaps our top 10 players are not top 10 at good clubs?

Steven would be 5-10 at most top 8 clubs , seems like wants to go so if brings a second round pick ( we don't have one at the moment) , then good trade

Bruce would be top 10 player at our club but scrape in, if at all, top 10 at top club. Prefer he stays but if rumour of a too good to refuse offer from WB (1st round pick) then must do.

Carlisle - seems like there is more to this one. Large salary so dump is part of the reason , but not sure if playing hurt or bad attitude during the season but barring Freo last qtr was average at best this year.

Hill coming in - close to AA top 40 (surprised he missed) increases skill, x factor and outside speed

Ryder(?) - 2 years left , can play ruck or forward, makes sense as King may be ready to play forward but wouldn't want to see him ruck for a couple of years. need to manage him early to avoid another Daniher

Kelly , Zac Jones, - Good ball users , Jones with good speed. Ticks boxes in areas we lack.

got to give to get now days

[B.M]

Steven, fully fit would be a top 5 player at most clubs, top 3 player at some. He is a gun, who has been in the best 2 players at StK since 2013.

Why would we need a salary dump

As it stands we have no good players outside of Hannebury who deserve big coin. Not even AA squad of 40 players. Other clubs have up to 4 (or more) players better than our best player

[BackFromUSA]

Clubs are chasing Bruce? Then definitely keep him. Have we not learnt anything? And a 1st round draft pick in this draft isn't of the same value as previous years. 1 & 2 are great - then the next 20 are meant to be worth 10-20 in previous years.

As far as I am concerned - make him Captain. He leads with spirit on the field and has an infectious upbeat personality.

The only deal I would consider is this one:

Bruce plus our 1st round draft pick (currently 5 but will be 6 after Gold Coast are given pick 2by the AFL)
for
B.King + Gold Coast's conditoonal / must trade Pick 2 given to them by the AFL.

We use #2 on Anderson (son of Dean Anderson) having come to that agreement with Gold Coast.

Summary:

They get the pick they used on Ben King back so go to the draft with pick 1 and 6.
They get Josh Bruce.

We get Ben King and Anderson.
But we have no 1st round draft pic.

That will mean that we shall have to use players / picks to get Hill.
Acres plus a future first or a second rounder this year or whatever we get for Stevens or the Newnes compo pick

After saying all that ... I would rather keep Josh Bruce!

[1966]

Steven, fully fit would be a top 5 player at most clubs, top 3 player at some. He is a gun, who has been in the best 2 players at StK since 2013.

Why would we need a salary dump

As it stands we have no good players outside of Hannebury who deserve big coin. Not even AA squad of 40 players. Other clubs have up to 4 (or more) players better than our best player

Spot on.
We need to add to our list not trade out our talent. We don’t get better by trading out our best players because they have value.
List doesn’t get better - just goes sideways at best.

[damienc]

What is interesting is that we have all these delistings (admittedly, Longer, Pierce, Rowe & Armo aren't earth shattering) and rumours of key players being shopped around (Carlisle, Bruce & Acres) and we don't have a coach.

Or do we? They are holding off on the announcement to make it seem like they are doing due diligence & it's a "close call".

How can a club interview for a coach with a given set of players & then gets that job but the players available are considerably different?

Just my opinion but I think some of these changes needed to happen irrespective of who will end up coaching the Saints.

The guys who've been moved on were always going to be delisted or retired.

Players being shopped around? I don't see what choice we have if we want to recruit players like Brad Hill and Zac Jones.

These types of players we desperately need. Hard at the contest, get a lot of the footy have great skills especially kicking to a target.

People on this forum have quite rightly complained about our propensity to just bang it into the forward line with a Hail Mary and hoping someone from our side will mark it.

Idiotic and counterproductive and one of the principal reasons why we are not winning more games of footy.

I don't want to lose Carlisle, Bruce or Acres but I also realise we have to deal in players if we are going to get Hill and Jones across the line.

Wouldn't it be great if we could get who we want without giving up any of the good players on our current list. Unfortunately in the real world that is not going to happen.

Hill was close to AA this season. The Dockers are going to want to something for him and so they should. He's been one of their best players. Not far behind Nate Fyfe if you want my honest opinion.

Jones has been great for the Swans. You can play him in defence or rotate him through the midfield and he can kick a goal. At the moment we simply do not have anyone that matches the skill set of Jones and Hill.

Clearly that is why they are being targeted.

I think everyone agrees we can't keep the status quo. It is not winning us games of footy. Something has to give.

A few here need to harden up and see both sides of this.

[BarryGrogan]

He’s a workhorse Forward

Absolutely required in 2020

If we trade him out the list management are inept

How do we get quality mids though?

We have lots of talls, and the worst midfield in the comp by a stretch.


We've had Bruce for 5 years and it's netted f*** all because our midfield can't provide opportunities.

If Bruce goes, we have King and Membrey still - and a markedly improved midfield.