8 Years of failure - WORST period since the 80s

[saintsRrising]

Also we would have made finals in 2017 easily if the ladder was as is now...

How so?

In 2017 we had 11 wins. 8th this year has 12 wins as did 8th in 2017.

[saintsRrising]

Not sure what else the club can do....time machine?

Last season we took a huge risk with our 3 top acquisitions all having known injury concerns (Max, Bytel and Hannas). Kent who was cheap pick wise also had a poor injury record.

This trade and draft period is critical and above type of high gamble play needs to be avoided.

What I do not want to see:

- is top up old players like Ryder recruited.
- no one older than Hill (currently 26 year 1 month) and Tomlinson (26 year 0 month). Exception to this may be a back-up ruck who will mainly play at Sandy and who is only a very late pick or rookie pick (Though there should be ruckman in their mid-twenties with potential).


I want to see the club walking the talk about better ball users.

I want to see some turning over of the list to reflect this.

[Special]

Not sure what else the club can do....time machine?

Last season we took a huge risk with our 3 top acquisitions all having known injury concerns (Max, Bytel and Hannas). Kent who was cheap pick wise also had a poor injury record.

This trade and draft period is critical and above type of high gamble play needs to be avoided.

What I do not want to see:

- is top up old players like Ryder recruited.
- no one older than Hill (currently 26 year 1 month) and Tomlinson (26 year 0 month). Exception to this may be a back-up ruck who will mainly play at Sandy and who is only a very late pick or rookie pick (Though there should be ruckman in their mid-twenties with potential).


I want to see the club walking the talk about better ball users.

I want to see some turning over of the list to reflect this.

Did you hear Ratts presser?

He was pissed off with players who made basic skill errors when they weren’t under pressure.

Refreshing to have a coach who doesn’t talk with a mouth full of marbles.

[Linton Lodger]

Although, overall I'm a fan of GT, it started with his ridiculous player contracts. Leaving us no flexibility in List Management for perhaps Lyon's entire tenure. A rebuild was then delayed and it had to be, because we were in Premiership contention.

Then the main cause, the election of the incompetent Footy First ticket (the members need to take a fair bit of responsibility there). Westaway & Nettlefold were disasters. 2009 and 2010 were the result of the previous Board's work and Ross Lyon. Then the dynamic duo, gave us the move to Seaford, the ham fisted handling of Lyon's contract and his loss, the hiring of Watters and Pelchen etc etc

[B.M]

Weren’t the contracts a mess in 2012?

GT had been gone for 6 years by then.

The two players on an Overs contract in GTs time were Kosi and Bally... the signed long term deals on huge Coin in 2005 after awesome season.
Both had career defining injuries in 06
Thus, getting overs in 07-09

[To the top]

The solution is that both Gold Coast and St Kilda have their licences revoked and resort to competing in District competitions

The sale of Geary and Longer would satisfy our Creditors - the remainder of our List worthless according to BM because they are variously lazy, can’t kick over 20 metres etc etc

[The Recruit]

Also we would have made finals in 2017 easily if the ladder was as is now...

How so?

In 2017 we had 11 wins. 8th this year has 12 wins as did 8th in 2017.

Sorry 2016...finished on 48 points

[Spinner]

Who takes responsility for this extended period of misery inflicted on us saints supporters? No finals in 8 seasons and mostly finishing in bottom section of the ladder.

What makes it worse is that we came off one our most sucessful periods at end of 2011 (from 1991 to 2011). You would think that there woud be enough culture, knowledge, experience and desire ingrained into the place to engineer a re-birth.

But instead we have seen:
- 2 terrible head coach selections and poorly run coaching department
- Crazy unwarrented contract extensions for coaches and players
- Terrible recuiting program with emphasis placed on selecting 'nice' people rather than players first
- Terrible player development program with skilled players going nowhere through insipid programs and an eroding culture
- Loss of toughness in spirit and character
- Indulgence in stupid and pointless gestures with nothing to do with good football club (e.g. gender neutral toilets)

For me, its always a problem created by people at the top. Our board and senior management has been a disgrace. From Summers/Nettefold to Summers/Finnis and now a new combo of Basset/Finnis.

The key 'attributes' these boards & management seem to display are:
- Ignorance : They seemed completely oblivious to the decay that happened at our club over the years (like Nero fiddling while Rome burns). No one seems to understand what makes a sucessful football club or how to create it.
- Timidity : For example, fear to recuit quality players that had strong characters, and our capitulation after the Murphy affair in the Carlton game. This seems to have occured becuase of the M&M, st.kilda school girl and other incidents that scared the club. Instead of saying, 'no f u, we did nothing wrong and we will focus on building a strong club', instead we rolled over and submitted to everyone...

The return to moorabbin was great, BUT that was mostly due to AFL and state government and change of local council, not the club.

So where to from here? A new head coach, (3rd time lucky?), a player clean out....BUT same board and CEO... we had changes in recuiting dept, head of football last year, but is that enough???

Eight years and Lyon still gets blamed for the list...

Should have taken Petracca.

That Carlton game was a turning point resulting in the last two seasons of whatever the opposite of ruthless football is.

[Laurie]

Lets get St.Kilda people with passion for our club running the club.
Not Zig and Zag who are their for their own self centred egos and slowly destroying the club.
Do we want Paddy Ryder i say NO past his best and will certainly not have his heart in it i think.
Offering big money for a player who may only be there 2-3 years does not make sense.
What message does that send to other players on our list.

[suss]

Bottom line is that we have had an inedpt recruiting department since the mid to early Naughties. It was well and truly in a parlous state before Pelchen arrived, and remained so after he left..

Beveridge was an ok recruiter for his day. The problem was that as other clubs moved on our recruiting remained in the 70's and "gut-feel" recruiting'.

Bevo had a penchant for the smokies and his successors like Trout followed his lead. The right hand-guy of the Geelong Recruiter we hired turn out to be a dud and not a Master's Apprentice.

Bain started and while he fixed the contract mess that GT put in of the too few being paid too much, he then overstepped his abilities by living out his fan-boy dreams by meddling in the actual draft.

6 months after Bains started Pelchen came in with his plan, but the actual recruiters were still dismal, and so you had a plan with no ability to actually pick the right players. His multi-players swaps in particular in the main were flops.

Bain got rid of Pelchen, but continued on his Merry Way with Trout. The FA Big Fish Pipedream remained strong and even when it should have been crystal clear that it was just not going to happen and after Pelchen had departed on the club marched. The Non-Recruiters were in charge and merrily rubbing each others egos about what geniuses they all where.

The FA pipe dream remained that as star players did not want to join bottom clubs, BUT was well and truly blown out of the water when St Kilda having spent a few years building up a "War Chest" were blown out of the water as with the new TV Rights deal it mean that virtually every club was suddenly cashed.

Over a decade of poor list management and recruiting is why we are where we are at. GT's over generous contracts to too few was the start of the rot. Poor player choices since then compounded and continued that problem to make an even bigger mess.


We are where we are at because on an overall nonperformance by many in our List Management? recruitment since the early Naughties.

It remains to be seen if the latest wave is any better. The current group certainly like going for long-shots.

Great post. I think we did okay with some trading in of players who weren't getting a game (e.g. Membrey, Bruce, Steele, Roberton) but otherwise it's been a shambles. Our drafting and downgrading of picks has been atrocious.

It's been a collective shitshow but Pelchen has been the worst of the lot.

[evertonfc]

Everton - please email your brilliant post to AB

Thanks SP, but it should be the other way round.

The club should be reaching out to its own members and saying what the hell can we do to make you engaged with this club?

Until then, I think they're pretty happy with the Mark-Ricciuto-it's-my-club approach of appointed directors, false AGMs and deference to the AFL.

[spert]

Although we can pick out individuals, it is the club as a whole which is responsible for success or lack of. It starts at the top where the culture is determined, then implemented as it moves through the organisation. Unfortunately for the Saints, we put things in place then don't support it through good and bad and let individuals white ant the process on and off the field- again weak leadership..a trait of the Saints for decades.

I just hope the current president and board follow through with whatever vision they have (I hope they have one!)- and drive it hard.

[Linton Lodger]

Lets get St.Kilda people with passion for our club running the club.
Not Zig and Zag who are their for their own self centred egos and slowly destroying the club.
Do we want Paddy Ryder i say NO past his best and will certainly not have his heart in it i think.
Offering big money for a player who may only be there 2-3 years does not make sense.
What message does that send to other players on our list.

Michael Nettlefold was a St Kilda person!

Who's out there, Riewoldt? He's committed to media. Bring back GT? Who are the St Kilda people we should turn to?

[evertonfc]

Who are the St Kilda people we should turn to?

There's plenty. We have a raft of intelligent people who are happy to stay in the background while this current lot run their race.

There are some concerns about the Board and Exec, and whether they have enough ambition and capability to deliver. They'd better get moving.

[Special]

Everton - please email your brilliant post to AB

Thanks SP, but it should be the other way round.

The club should be reaching out to its own members and saying what the hell can we do to make you engaged with this club?

Until then, I think they're pretty happy with the Mark-Ricciuto-it's-my-club approach of appointed directors, false AGMs and deference to the AFL.

Fair point but that’s not what they are doing.

So ask AB that question directly. Can’t do any harm.

[prwilkinson]