Let's press the reset button NOW

[SydneySainter]

The Club heirachy needs to hear the serious rumblings from long-term Club supporters. We say that players are accountable for their performance. What about our CEO and others at the administrative top, who have presided over long term profit losses, team and coaching under=performance, recruiting under-performance. Yet - nothing changes at the top. They are the people who make the key decisions on how the Club is run !!!

Well said
Finnis should of kept going straight out the door with Ricoh,what a joke he is,

Finnis has a lot to answer for. I hear he’s a nice person, apparently that’s supposed to mean something.

[samoht]

The Hawks have assembled and recruited a very talented list - that runs deep - that's more than capable of winning the flag again this year.

Will they make the finals, though?

It's sounding a bit like our 1978 star-studded list which way under-achieved - when St Kilda somehow missed out on the finals.

I hope they make it ... but either way, their recruiters have continued to do a great job.

Our recruiters, on the other hand, have held us back (relatively speaking)... it's the reason why we haven't been able to sustain our success since 2009 and 2010.
It's not only about the draft, we need to go after established "top-end" talent, just as the Hawks have been doing ... and also recognise and find the next Warpole - the next hidden gem - in the upcoming drafts.

[Josh Battle]

Stop with the tunnel vision. As Ghost Like said there is more to a football club than just the recruiting department.

Around 2009/2010 our mastermind CEO and administrators had overpaid a handful of our stars exorbitant amounts where there was zero salary cap space to recruit any 'established top end talent'!!!!!!!!

We were so stupid and had such a weak and incompetent board to the point where we couldn't hold on to our own 'established top end talent!!!!!

Sorry. had to do a stonecold for emphasis

Hawthorn reset and established the four pillars for AFL success, Coaching, Recruiting, Development and Culture (effectively Administration).

One cannot survive and prosper without the other.

[samoht]

Stop with the tunnel vision. As Ghost Like said there is more to a football club than just the recruiting department.

Around 2009/2010 our mastermind CEO and administrators had overpaid a handful of our stars exorbitant amounts where there was zero salary cap space to recruit any 'established top end talent'!!!!!!!!

We were so stupid and had such a weak and incompetent board to the point where we couldn't hold on to our own 'established top end talent!!!!!

Sorry. had to do a stonecold for emphasis

Hawthorn reset and established the four pillars for AFL success, Coaching, Recruiting, Development and Culture (effectively Administration).

One cannot survive and prosper without the other.

Exactly. And if you'd noticed, I'd already thanked him for that post.
Which means that I agree with his view.

But the tunnel vision that I'm contending with is that it's all the coach's fault and in the case of the Hawks that Clarkson is a genius, etc... and it's all his doing.
That's the majority view on here.

As far as I'm concerned, if we're going to single out any one of those 4 pillars, what is genius is the Hawk recruiting - I don't think it's been recognised enough....
and as I said, the hawks have under-achieved so far this year, given their talented list which includes top-end talent that they've managed to assemble.

We need to do likewise - recruit for success, and align our 4 pillars and develop an overall master plan, if you like, where everyone is working to the same end - assembling the best list.

[Josh Battle]

Recruiting and coaching are probably the key to building a list that is capable of winning a flag, but you can't sustain that success if your footy department and development of youth is crap. Clarko is the bloke who led that young squad to achieve 4 flags.

The other important thing to note is that the Hawks were able to gain dividends off their premierships which made then made them a destination club. So unless we look like we are playing finals and unless we actually start playing finals, we should be focussing on recruiting and assembling a young list and developing them into a 'flag capable squad' prior to any dreams of being a destination club

In other words, I don't think we can follow their current model of picking up the Tom Mitchells and Chad Wingards because we won't be chosen by the 'established top end talent'. We are not a destination club, so we should be focussing on the Hawks 2003-2006 model.

[terry smith rules]

And what’s Clarkson going to do with this list

He ain’t doing much with a better team

What were you saying about Clarkson?

He's masterminded another opportunity for Hawthorn to play finals. Away game too.

Great for their young players. Great for their fans. Great for their sponsors. Great for their membership department if they fall into the 8

Obviously need Port to lose...or not to win by too many and need Adelaide to win...by not too many

The Hawk recruiters deserve most of the praise.

There's been some great established players recruited by the Hawks, over the last couple of years, to add to their skillful and talented list

I mean .. Scully, Wyngard, Frawley, Tom Mitchell, O'Meara, etc.... added to their already skillful and talented list (with Isaac Smith, Breust, Burgoyne, Sicily, Shiels, Gunston, McEvoy, etc.... the last three were also recruited from other clubs, let's not forget).

Then there's Warpole .. what a draft pick!

We could have used these talented players.

This is what makes Hawthorn a great club... and how they have managed to sustain their success.
Their recruiting!

If anything, they have under-achieved under Clarkson this year .. they arguably have a list that should be playing in the GF again this year (and they might still sneak in to the finals, who knows?) - but their recruiters have certainly excelled themselves over the years (and in the last few years).

I’m sorry are you kidding

Yes they have an amazing coach and yes last night was a great win

But let’s not forget they have only won 11 games for the year

Let’s not forget that this year there seems to be a significant gap between the top 5 teams and the rest

If anything they have overachieved with a list that is both aging and mediocre , winning on memory and the coach

[samoht]

Recruiting and coaching are probably the key to building a list that is capable of winning a flag, but you can't sustain that success if your footy department and development of youth is crap. You also can't retian key components of your 'flag capable list if you start overpaying a handful of them and sacrafice your salary cap for the sake of your 'stars'.

The other important thing to note is that the Hawks were able to gain dividends off their premierships which made then made them a destination club. So unless we look like we are playing finals and unless we actually start playing finals, we should be focussing on recruiting and assembling a young list and developing them into a 'flag capable squad' prior to any dreams of being a destination club

Then we need a master plan that everyone adheres to, to make sure all the 4 pillars are always aligned - so that we end up assembling the most talented list - as the ultimate goal.
Everyone should be working to this end - even our regular players could start accepting lower salaries - they should "buy into" this "master plan" (for better word).
We have the best facilities now at Moorabbin - we need to sell ourselves as a destination club - even pay $100,000 - $200,000 overs to attract top-end talent to kick things off at the start, to get the ball rolling.
Once we have critical mass and start assembling a talented list, players will start to see us as a destination club.

[Josh Battle]

There's plenty of master plans to follow. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. The Hawks 2003-2006 plan is pretty good. The Doggies 2011-2014 plan is pretty good too

[samoht]

There's plenty of master plans to follow. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. The Hawks 2003-2006 plan is pretty good. The Doggies 2011-2014 plan is pretty good too

Whatever you want to call it - we don't have one or a good one or effective one at the moment.

And when we do, everyone will need to buy into it and align themselves with it.

We might not need to reinvent the wheel - but our wheel has come off its axle.
Billings, the wide-receiver, hanging out for $900,000 per annum is an example of what is wrong with St Kilda.

[Laurie]

Good Clubs have good administration with experience running football clubs.
We have ex AFL Headquarters boys zig and Zag running ours with no experience what so ever.
Time these guys also had the blow torch put on them .

[Josh Battle]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... egUIARCPAg

[BarryGrogan]

Warpol is a worse kick than Dunstan!! He's awful.

[whiskers3614]

There's plenty of master plans to follow. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. The Hawks 2003-2006 plan is pretty good. The Doggies 2011-2014 plan is pretty good too

Whatever you want to call it - we don't have one or a good one or effective one at the moment.

And when we do, everyone will need to buy into it and align themselves with it.

We might not need to reinvent the wheel - but our wheel has come off its axle.
Billings, the wide-receiver, hanging out for $900,000 per annum is an example of what is wrong with St Kilda.

No, the problem is the moron who gave Hanneberry the alleged 5x$800k and allowed it to become public knowledge!

[ace]

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=ht ... egUIARCPAg

The real Zig and Zag
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... andzag.jpg
Peter's Ice Cream the health food of a nation.

[Laurie]

Ha ha the true Zig and Zag .
Now they have appeared again at St.Kilda .

[Laurie]

Billings iis a marshmelllow soooooo soft

[whiskers3614]

Wasn't one of them a tamperer?

[To the top]

Look at the demographics of our List

There is no comparison to Hawthorn - even allowing for Roughead now retired

We have totally lost our Grand Final List - and apart from Carlisle and now Hannebery (both of whom have had seriously interrupted introductions to their St Kilda days) we have not “topped up” with class players

The history of father/son, Free Agency et al have conspired against us by comparison to some other Clubs - as did our own administration during our competing years

Then we have had bad luck with McCartin, our only Number 1 Draft Pick

What we need is patience and commitment until we can get a solid core of players past 100 games and as leaders for those of lesser experience - plus attract players from other Clubs (and I am not talking about those who come to us seeking opportunity unavailable elsewhere)

We need to back in those higher end Draft Picks we have and are accruing - and those later Picks such as Battle plus those such as Marshall who really is a gem from nowhere

So we are building numbers and we will become more consistently competitive off these numbers

Others will drop off our List as these numbers arrive - plus as those we target arrive

It is a process

And you commit to that process

To deviate consigns to a far longer period of mediocre performance

When we last built we had Concession Picks hence Riewoldt and Kosi in the same Draft (as Hawthorn had Franklin and Roughead) but thiose day’s are gone as are adding Gehrig, Penny, Hamill et al

We are stuck with the system of 2020 - the Draft and Free Agency

So focus and persist

We are getting there

[To the top]

Plus there is the Salary Cap, where we now have room to make offers to the likes of Hill (given we can otherwise get the deal done and NOT by offering players - one player does not make a side so, by extension, trading class or potential class to receive class does not work because it is a win/loss status quo including on potential - we have to add to our class and potential class

IF Steven is committed to leaving then a 3 way swap including Kelly and Hill - or our First Round Draft Pick noting we will be introducing a First Round Draft Pick in 2020 with King so mitigating