Trades

[damienc]

Small disclaimer.

I have zero inside knowledge but the rumours doing the rounds sound promising for the trade period.

Charlie Constable and a second rounder for Jack Steven. A great deal for us if true. Great skills. Kicking and by hand. Tall and young. Lots of upside.

Brad Hill to the Saints from the Dockers. Genuine A grader. Not sure how this gets done but maybe pick 5 is somewhere in the mix.

Zac Jones from the Swans to us. Really good pick up if true. Running defender who can move into the midfield if needs must. Hard at the contest. Gets the ball a lot.

Now we just need a ruckman as backup for Rowan Marshall.

[damienc]

Almost forgot. We've made a big play for Adam Tomlinson. We might just get him this time.

[saintbob]

I’d be happy with Constable, Hill and possibly Tomlinson.

But we don’t need Zak Jones, yep he’s a hard nut who provides plenty of run but his kicking is very, very ordinary and we’ve already got too many of that type.
I’d prefer Jack Martin or Ed Langdon

[Groovy Guru]

I’d be happy with Constable, Hill and possibly Tomlinson.

But we don’t need Zak Jones, yep he’s a hard nut who provides plenty of run but his kicking is very, very ordinary and we’ve already got too many of that type.
I’d prefer Jack Martin or Ed Langdon

Ed Langdon ..... yes please, this kid is a jet.

[outside66]

A spicy call from me but I would package up Bruce and a future 1st round pick for Ben King

[saintbob]

A spicy call from me but I would package up Bruce and a future 1st round pick for Ben King

I’d throw Savage in as a sweetener, just to get it done

[saintsRrising]

Almost forgot. We've made a big play for Adam Tomlinson. We might just get him this time.

Of the players we are said to be chasing I regard Tomlinson as the most likely as he is a Unrestricted FA. If nominates us the deal is done.

Hill is I think the next most likely. Quite possibly we are No 1 in his thinking at present. He has 2 years to run on his contract though and so forget about paying unders for him. The problem with Hill though is that one, or both, Carlton and the Hawks will miss out on Cogs and when they do they will switch their attention to another really good player and that will quite possibly be Hill. Hopefully that we are the only of the 3 to have a firm and generous offer able on the table now will give us the edge.


After that the field is wide open and very dynamic. No doubt some Saints will go. But remember that we shopped players around last year and the only interest was in Hickey.

Steven to go would seem to be 99% the case. Only reason why not is if the Cats offer way too little.

Newnes has been raised as a FA. But with Tomlinson in surely that means our compensation gets wiped out? And why would a club trade when they can just FA him?

With someone like Constable, Kelly to WA may loom large as Steven may well be part of a 3 club deal. We will still have to cough up something significant though and that to me means that our Pick 5/6 will be gone in some deal.

Ryder. He is not a FA., and so I hope that the Saints do not go form him unless Port gift him to us for a worthless pick as essentially a salary dump for them. Even then my personally preference is not too as I see it getting in the way of developing Marshall and I would just grab the best available state level ruck instead. ie a guy happy to pay at Sandi, but to get a crack at senior level. Someone with some upside, but most definitely not an 18-21 year old.

I am sure that the club will be after some other players, but with no 2019 second and third rounders, we do not have a lot to trade apart from fringe players. Players like Acres may extract some value, but I cannot see other clubs being generous in what they would offer for players like Acres and others.



INS: Tomlinson, Hill and then a player or two ( I am hoping Constable). In the draft we will probably have mainly late picks and so look for some mature age players like last season. I suspect a back up ruck will part of this latter group.

OUTS: Steven and then a player or two (ignoring the retirements/delistings) and our second rounder from 2020.

I suspect that we will hang onto our 2020 first rounder as the Saints will be eyeing off B King. next year. Trading him in this year would require losing a Carlisle (reports are that he does not want to leave) or a Bruce ( I suspect that forcing him to go would be unpopular with the players). Also losing Bruce would really hurt us next year as two Kings in the seniors in 2020 will hurt the team as both are not physically robust enough. Also remember that there are some good FAs next year, and so we do not want to bea basket case club in 2020 if we want a chance of landing one.

I hope the club does not tray and be "clever" again with trades like Kent (hoping they could make him better, we didn't).

[Special]

All this trade stuff is probably very difficult dependant on who our coach will be.

Is a big focus on our new coach being who will attract players vs. who doesn’t (ie I reckon Cho was huge factor in players not wanting to come to us - and who would
blame them??)

[saintsRrising]

A spicy call from me but I would package up Bruce and a future 1st round pick for Ben King

I understand the romance, but trying to play both King's in our first 22 in 2020 will hurt as both are not physically strong enough yet. We also cannot afford to be a basket case in 2020 and it will be hard not to be with:
- Blues on the rise
- Surely the Demons could not be as bad (plus they get Anderson in the draft)? Doubt they will be great though.
- Swan have a lot of good young talent despite losing a lot of good older players this year
- Only Freo look to be on the slide

[saintbob]

A spicy call from me but I would package up Bruce and a future 1st round pick for Ben King

I understand the romance, but trying to play both King's in our first 22 in 2020 will hurt as both are not physically strong enough yet. We also cannot afford to be a basket case in 2020 and it will be hard not to be with:
- Blues on the rise
- Surely the Demons could not be as bad (plus they get Anderson in the draft)? Doubt they will be great though.
- Swan have a lot of good young talent despite losing a lot of good older players this year
- Only Freo look to be on the slide

New coach and new players, so it’ll take a while for it all to click anyway so I’d be happy to take Ben King with a view of it all coming together in 2021

[saintsRrising]

A spicy call from me but I would package up Bruce and a future 1st round pick for Ben King

I understand the romance, but trying to play both King's in our first 22 in 2020 will hurt as both are not physically strong enough yet. We also cannot afford to be a basket case in 2020 and it will be hard not to be with:
- Blues on the rise
- Surely the Demons could not be as bad (plus they get Anderson in the draft)? Doubt they will be great though.
- Swan have a lot of good young talent despite losing a lot of good older players this year
- Only Freo look to be on the slide

New coach and new players, so it’ll take a while for it all to click anyway so I’d be happy to take Ben King with a view of it all coming together in 2021

There is also the large problem of getting players like Bruce to actually want to go to the GC.
It will be soul destroying for any player. Would you if you were a player want to go there?

A contract BKing will not come to us from GC for peanuts. The hold the upper hand till his contract expires.
Swapping our 2019 and 200 first round picks for King would be madness.
GC are not going to swap B King for only fringe players.

Plus gun mids rather than extra talls is our biggest problem.

2020 is when we should chase King and not this year.

[Trev from the Bush]

One from left field - Tom Papley. Wants to come back to Victoria; a gun.

[Ghost Like]

Let BB King play for GC in 2020, I agree with sRr, do that deal in the 2020 trade period. We've not got the picks to deal this year & I don't want to go into debt with trade picks like we've done this year.

Personally I hope we do some kind of shifty deal with Freo that gets us both Hills, even if it means the majority of Brad's contract goes on Stephen's so Freo get a high compensation pick.

I like Tomlinson & Hugh Greenwood, both are very gettable. I also like Zac Jones. My reasoning is that any player we get has to be automatic best 22. The above 5 are.

How we negotiate the Brad Hill & Jack Steven deal will be crucial. I don't mind paying overs provided we don't accept unders.

[seano1]

were not anywhere near a grand final so really i think its a waste of time recruiting older type of players , i think we are better off trading out our list cloggers and get as many draft picks as we can.

[saintsRrising]

How we negotiate the Brad Hill & Jack Steven deal will be crucial. I don't mind paying overs provided we don't accept unders.

Well we will not get a lot for Jack. Second rounder or a fringe player at the Cats at best (ie Constable is we are really lucky).

Only suitor for Jack is the Cats too.

[Ghost Like]

were not anywhere near a grand final so really i think its a waste of time recruiting older type of players , i think we are better off trading out our list cloggers and get as many draft picks as we can.

The problem with that is we will have 15 picks between 90 and 120 such is the value of our list cloggers.

[Wayne42]

were not anywhere near a grand final so really i think its a waste of time recruiting older type of players , i think we are better off trading out our list cloggers and get as many draft picks as we can.

The problem with that is we will have 15 picks between 90 and 120 such is the value of our list cloggers.

If you're right about picks 90 to 120 then we'll only be bringing in a fresh batch of list cloggers with those 15 picks.

Net Gain = SFA.

[Ghost Like]

were not anywhere near a grand final so really i think its a waste of time recruiting older type of players , i think we are better off trading out our list cloggers and get as many draft picks as we can.

The problem with that is we will have 15 picks between 90 and 120 such is the value of our list cloggers.

If you're right about picks 90 to 120 then we'll only be bringing in a fresh batch of list cloggers with those 15 picks.

Net Gain = SFA.

Exactly! We have no draft picks & little to haggle with.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

If St Kilda keep going down this track of bringing in players older than 26 we are doomed. Forget about Hill, Tomlinson and Zak Jones ffs. If we were a top 4 team then by all means go for it. But we are nowhere near a top 4 team. We have to keep building from the bottom up. Not the other way around. We need to identify which of the older players have trade value which will get us a gun youngster. Here is what I would do.

1. Jack Steven to Geelong for Constable.
2. Jake Carlisle and pick 5 to Gold Coast for Ben King and their third round pick. (38ish).
3. Our own forth round pick (we have 2 of them), plus pick 38ish from Gold Coast to anyone for an early second round pick.
4. Take this early second round pick to the draft and grab the best possible midfielder.
5. Let Newnes walk as a FA and take the compensation draft pick to the draft.

[saintsRrising]

Our list is poor and we enter the draft with no second or third rounders.

Our list is poor and we enter the draft with little in way of players that we can trade to improve our position.

You could say tray and gut it by trading Bruce and Carlisle out to gain more picks and youth.....BUT the history of teams with mainly young players is not good.

I think we need to try and get two really good mids as the best way forward. I am hoping that Hill is one, but one can also see that when either or both Carlton and the Hawks miss out on Cogs that they will then turn their attention on gaining Hill.

We have the trade capital to get Hill. But to get the second mid is going to be difficult.

As I mentioned above we have to also hope like hell that Bytel is elite, because if he isn't things are going to remain grim....and that is with myself having factored in Hunter really stepping up next year too.

[vacuous space]

I still think we should be selling, not buying. If we add Hill, we're probably still on the wrong side of mediocre. I feel like, five years down the road, we're probably going to wish we'd kept the top-10 pick.

I don't see what guys like Constable, Jones and Tomlinson add to the list either. Constable slipped in the draft due to poor endurance and the way the Cats used him doesn't say to me they think he's capable of running hard two ways for four quarters. Does he really displace anybody already in our midfield group anyway? Jones couldn't get consistent mid time ahead of Sydney's older guys or their younger brigade. I think he's the exact kind of mediocre that we already have lots of.

I'd move whatever over-25s we can for whatever we can get and start to build around a young core including the likes of Battle, Clark, Coffield, Gresham and King. This list is going to need to be rebuilt eventually and I think our current list management strategy is to put that off for as long as possible. I think this road is setting up the new coach for failure, whether it's Ratten or anyone else. In a few years, we're probably right back where we are now, well outside the 8, wondering what the heck went wrong. Especially since we keep moving picks to get questionably better.

[Wayne42]

I still think we should be selling, not buying. If we add Hill, we're probably still on the wrong side of mediocre. I feel like, five years down the road, we're probably going to wish we'd kept the top-10 pick.

I don't see what guys like Constable, Jones and Tomlinson add to the list either. Constable slipped in the draft due to poor endurance and the way the Cats used him doesn't say to me they think he's capable of running hard two ways for four quarters. Does he really displace anybody already in our midfield group anyway? Jones couldn't get consistent mid time ahead of Sydney's older guys or their younger brigade. I think he's the exact kind of mediocre that we already have lots of.

I'd move whatever over-25s we can for whatever we can get and start to build around a young core including the likes of Battle, Clark, Coffield, Gresham and King. This list is going to need to be rebuilt eventually and I think our current list management strategy is to put that off for as long as possible. I think this road is setting up the new coach for failure, whether it's Ratten or anyone else. In a few years, we're probably right back where we are now, well outside the 8, wondering what the heck went wrong. Especially since we keep moving picks to get questionably better.

In the words of BT,

Oh Boy.

[ss1986]

If we take Zak Jones the club has learnt nothing.

Absolute butcher and the complete opposite of what we need.

[Wayne42]

If we take Zak Jones the club has learnt nothing.

Absolute butcher and the complete opposite of what we need.

They'll probably get him and pay him 800K a year.

[B.M]

I like Zac Jones as a player