Ratts Press Conference

[saintbob]

Lonie

16 possessions and 2 goal assists

Reasonable output from a small forward

1 poor contest, where he positioned himself poorly at stoppage doesn’t define his game. That was a poor moment which will be highlighted on review, but he did some good stuff, especially early in the game.

He needs to kick goals.

His inability to hit the scoreboard is an enormous flaw for a guy who is paid to kick goals.

He won’t even take a set shot and when he does he struggles from 25m

[B.M]

As a forward, you play your role in the group, sometimes you get on the end of them, sometimes not... forwards need to create goals as a collective and take their chances. Don’t think Lonie had a shot yesterday? But he clearly had a few assists. And one pass to Membrey where he kicked a point from 25m

[scallopsroe]

Out coached?

Really?

To me it came down to resources and ability to perform the game plan

They went tall, even with their injuries to talk resources

Our tall resources are what they are confirmed by our 2 KPP forwards are Bruce and Membrey, Membrey being 188cm tall

In defence we had Carlisle, Brown and Battle - then Wilkie at 191cm

Our rucks were Marshall

At times both Carlisle and Marshall went forward

The reason for this was that our forward line consisted of Steven, Long, Lonie and Hind but the ball was not hitting the deck - plus there was no spread to use space and poor defence

So what you would expect from our (forced by unavailability) resources did not come to pass

I note some included Hine in the best - but his input was minimal so I am guessing that 2 goals has influenced plus that one was eye catching

We lost because we kicked only 10 goals and Membrey missed what he missed

So those 4 did not contribute - including because the ball was being marked by the opposition defenders

That is not out coached

In the third quarter three easy AFL goals were missed by Members, Sinclair and Newnes, all within 35 meters. Ratten stated in his Post match that this poor disposal has been going on all year. He appeared very dejected when he spoke. I feel if he nailed the last two games, the job was his. Now it's anyone with a good interview. Very disappointing Saints but I feel Carlton used their infield resources a little better than us.

[scallopsroe]

Out coached?

Really?

To me it came down to resources and ability to perform the game plan

They went tall, even with their injuries to talk resources

Our tall resources are what they are confirmed by our 2 KPP forwards are Bruce and Membrey, Membrey being 188cm tall

In defence we had Carlisle, Brown and Battle - then Wilkie at 191cm

Our rucks were Marshall

At times both Carlisle and Marshall went forward

The reason for this was that our forward line consisted of Steven, Long, Lonie and Hind but the ball was not hitting the deck - plus there was no spread to use space and poor defence

So what you would expect from our (forced by unavailability) resources did not come to pass

I note some included Hine in the best - but his input was minimal so I am guessing that 2 goals has influenced plus that one was eye catching

We lost because we kicked only 10 goals and Membrey missed what he missed

So those 4 did not contribute - including because the ball was being marked by the opposition defenders

That is not out coached

Yes out coached, he allowed Simpson, Newman and Thomas to do what they liked ALL day.

He took Carlisle out of the backline and should’ve put him straight back there after he kicked his goal, but decided to roll the dice leaving us vulnerable in defence and with no forward line pressure what so ever.

Brown played on McKay all day although he didn’t have the pace or height to go with him, Wilkie or Battle would’ve been a much better match up.

Lonie should’ve been dragged after that insipid contest and chase with Simpson, his f****** ears should still be ringing!!

That effort by Lonie was disgraceful. He gave up chasing. Is he injured before that "Chase"? Should have been dragged and told to hit the showers. Feel he was one of the passengers Ratten mentioned, along with Carlisle and Long. Bruce also had a howler.

[To the top]

So are we concentrating on the coaching of the side?

Or are we concentrating on player resource issues?

I defer to the player resource side of the commentary.

And the responses to my contribution to this thread would appear to confirm player resource issues contributed yesterday.

Carlton covered their unavailable players better than we did.

They were still able to go "tall" targeting our deficiencies in that demographic.

And that overhead dominance (including in the Ruck) eventually won the game for them.

Marshall, Carlisle, Bruce, Battle and Membrey (188cm) were just outnumbered - and Brown was a liability exposed for closing speed (hence they used their resources to drag Brown to where we did not want him to be - and he was cut up accordingly).

We all see footy differetly, maybe because of background also, but that is my take.

All yesterday did for me is to confirm our deficiencies in personnel and where we must improve into 2020.

And those areas are most obvious.

What we do know is that we have Gresham and Coffield, plus King and Bytel untested.

We also know we have Austin and Claravino developing.

And we know we have (currently at least so fingers and everything else crossed) Roberton and McCartin on our List.

Plus the likes of Carlisle, Hannebery and Steven will have full pre-seasons.

Then we go to Free Agents and the Draft.

The summary of all this is that the side we should aspire to having on the Park for Round 1 in 2020 will be a far better (and better balanced) side than represented yesterday.

[SaintPav]

A bitter loss to Carlton and not disgraced but I think a win would have papered over some cracks. Better to take our medicine now.

[Ape_Man]

So are we concentrating on the coaching of the side?

Or are we concentrating on player resource issues?

I defer to the player resource side of the commentary.

And the responses to my contribution to this thread would appear to confirm player resource issues contributed yesterday.

Carlton covered their unavailable players better than we did.

They were still able to go "tall" targeting our deficiencies in that demographic.

And that overhead dominance (including in the Ruck) eventually won the game for them.

Marshall, Carlisle, Bruce, Battle and Membrey (188cm) were just outnumbered - and Brown was a liability exposed for closing speed (hence they used their resources to drag Brown to where we did not want him to be - and he was cut up accordingly).

We all see footy differetly, maybe because of background also, but that is my take.

All yesterday did for me is to confirm our deficiencies in personnel and where we must improve into 2020.

And those areas are most obvious.

What we do know is that we have Gresham and Coffield, plus King and Bytel untested.

We also know we have Austin and Claravino developing.

And we know we have (currently at least so fingers and everything else crossed) Roberton and McCartin on our List.

Plus the likes of Carlisle, Hannebery and Steven will have full pre-seasons.

Then we go to Free Agents and the Draft.

The summary of all this is that the side we should aspire to having on the Park for Round 1 in 2020 will be a far better (and better balanced) side than represented yesterday.

From my perspective, this is pretty spot on Toppa.

To add to that, having under done smalls exasperated the problem. We had very little spread in the forward line.

When we were just forward of centre it seemed we had to go sideways or, our old favourite, the top of the goal square.

Acres thrice turned it over streaming forward. But there was no one in the half forward zone.

He made bad decisions, as another thread points out, but our lack of forward movement gave him few options.

[older saint]

positive: no spin. Got sick of last 2 years about the terms "disappointing loss, boys disappointed, some really good performances from.... , "
Called it as we saw it , butchered the ball and lost structure behind the ball and got killed on rebound. Brown not to blame there, it is players such as Long, Lonie, Acres, Sinclair etc, who let the ball waltz from half back on turnover.
really Carlton dont have too many of best 22 not there, we do .Carlton on the up with 1st round draft picks developing and a top 10 player in the comp, which we contained, we don't have a top 30 player in the league. Lists very different.

[Ghost Like]

As a forward, you play your role in the group, sometimes you get on the end of them, sometimes not... forwards need to create goals as a collective and take their chances. Don’t think Lonie had a shot yesterday? But he clearly had a few assists. And one pass to Membrey where he kicked a point from 25m

I've watched enough of Lonie to know he'd have a shot at goal before giving his grandmother a kiss "hello". I've watched him wave his arms and berate team mates, like a NAB Richo, when the ball not passed to him. Then give the ol punch in the hand disgust gesture after he ignores a team mate to have a shot.

I believed he'd improved but looking at him, not really. He's slow for a small forward, one sided, lacks any tackling presence and fails more often than not to be front & square. Opting to duck his head, prop or shrug his shoulders because he's not the pace or tricks to get out of tight spaces.

[fugazi]

positive: no spin. Got sick of last 2 years about the terms "disappointing loss, boys disappointed, some really good performances from.... , "
Called it as we saw it , butchered the ball and lost structure behind the ball and got killed on rebound. Brown not to blame there, it is players such as Long, Lonie, Acres, Sinclair etc, who let the ball waltz from half back on turnover.
really Carlton dont have too many of best 22 not there, we do .Carlton on the up with 1st round draft picks developing and a top 10 player in the comp, which we contained, we don't have a top 30 player in the league. Lists very different.

Pretty accurate.

Although I think we are one good trade period away from being right up there.
We could very easily have beaten Carlton. Membrey and Sinclair get those gimme goals and we would have won.instead 12 point turn around.

For the first time in a long time I'm feeling a bit excited about future.
We have found a few really good ones this year Marshall,Wilke, Clark and a step up from Dustan, Lonie, Gresham.

If we get Hill and Tomlinson and possibly even Ben King....We are in business. I reckon we sell the farm this year and go for it with future picks.

[B.M]

Ghost Like

Look at his numbers instead of only seeing the bad things, notice the good

Lonie is averaging over a goal a game, over an assist per game, 14 disposals per game, 3 tackles per game.

His numbers (actual output vs perceived output) are good for a small forward

[To the top]

In 2020 we will not be seeing all of Lonie, Long, Hind and Steven featuring in our attacking 6

Plus Gresham was absent yesterday

Put Gresham ahead of Acres kicks and he does what he did v WB - protects the drop space over the back and runs into an open goal

In 2020 you would expect to see our attack 6 including Bruce, King and Membrey then one of Gresham or Steven

That leaves 2 spots for Lonie, Long, Hind and whoever else may come on

They will all be in competition for a couple of spots - which will make us a better side

Now for competition for our Rucks, our last line key defensive post and goal kicking mids with pace and smarts to complement our big bodied mids

[Rubyjo]

Nothing to play for been a long year.. Carlton had emotion on their side and thats all it takes sometimes for an edge.. Get over it bring on 2020 don't care about next week.

[evertonfc]

Didn't think Ratten coached well, but I liked his comments.

I feel like we're getting a massive amount of Clarkson IP by employing, however. He has the box seat.

Reckon a win in Sydney would seal the deal.

[evertonfc]

Didn't think Ratten coached well, but I liked his comments.

I feel like we're getting a massive amount of Clarkson IP by employing, however. He has the box seat.

Reckon a win in Sydney would seal the deal.

[silverhalo]

I thought we were over these Lonie bashing posts......he's a good little player, we missed him terribly while he was injured, just get off his case. If he was playing injured yesterday, that's probably the reason he didn't chase, cut him some slack. Gee there are some fickle supporters on this forum.....

[To the top]

So who are the lead “small forwards” at the Clubs which will be playing Final’s football this season - by way of comparison

There is Cameron at Brisbane

And Cripps at WCE

Essendon have a couple including Fantasia

And in terms of those benchmarks how does Lonie stack up - noting we had all of Steven, Long, Hind and Lonie in the side yesterday and Gresham absent?

My view is that our premier small forward options heading into 2020 are a fully fit Steven plus Gresham

Sitting under Bruce, King and Membrey

By extension with Steven and Gresham is that we attract a quality, quick mid to complement our big bodies in that demographic - the 3 of them rotating thru the F50, kicking goals and bringing the required defensive pressure

[BarryGrogan]

So who are the lead “small forwards” at the Clubs which will be playing Final’s football this season - by way of comparison

We're 13th for Inside 50s, and the Eagles are 15th.

And we play a similar method in terms of we've entered F50 this year.


So Liam Ryan is probably the best comparison.

[saintbob]

I thought we were over these Lonie bashing posts......he's a good little player, we missed him terribly while he was injured, just get off his case. If he was playing injured yesterday, that's probably the reason he didn't chase, cut him some slack. Gee there are some fickle supporters on this forum.....

How long do we need to cut him some slack, we’ve been doing exactly that for the last 5yrs.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses and realise that he is nothing more than a GOP who would probably only get a game at one other club.

You might call that being fickle, I like to call it being realistic.

[SaintPav]

I thought we were over these Lonie bashing posts......he's a good little player, we missed him terribly while he was injured, just get off his case. If he was playing injured yesterday, that's probably the reason he didn't chase, cut him some slack. Gee there are some fickle supporters on this forum.....

How long do we need to cut him some slack, we’ve been doing exactly that for the last 5yrs.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses and realise that he is nothing more than a GOP who would probably only get a game at one other club.

You might call that being fickle, I like to call it being realistic.

Collingwood offered him a three-year contract.

No rose coloured glasses but you definitely have a bias against him. He plays in a difficult position.

[spert]

I thought we were over these Lonie bashing posts......he's a good little player, we missed him terribly while he was injured, just get off his case. If he was playing injured yesterday, that's probably the reason he didn't chase, cut him some slack. Gee there are some fickle supporters on this forum.....

What injury did he have- seemed to go flat out into a couple of contests and looked ok to me, just played from behind all day.

[Ghost Like]

Ghost Like

Look at his numbers instead of only seeing the bad things, notice the good

Lonie is averaging over a goal a game, over an assist per game, 14 disposals per game, 3 tackles per game.

His numbers (actual output vs perceived output) are good for a small forward

Interesting advice B.M.. Perhaps you should have heeded that when you said Coffield s***s himself with the ball. When he actually has the highest disposal efficiency at the club.

I'm not blinded or swayed by stats, I will acknowledge a body of work and a pattern of behaviour though. 14 disposals in today's game where he gets to cover the entire ground, remember he's not locked into a pocket. 3 tackles, I must understand what constitutes a tackle for it to be a stat.

I'll let Blake Acres know that you notice the good instead of seeing the bad.

[barneyboyz]

Out coached?

Really?

To me it came down to resources and ability to perform the game plan

They went tall, even with their injuries to talk resources

Our tall resources are what they are confirmed by our 2 KPP forwards are Bruce and Membrey, Membrey being 188cm tall

In defence we had Carlisle, Brown and Battle - then Wilkie at 191cm

Our rucks were Marshall

At times both Carlisle and Marshall went forward

The reason for this was that our forward line consisted of Steven, Long, Lonie and Hind but the ball was not hitting the deck - plus there was no spread to use space and poor defence

So what you would expect from our (forced by unavailability) resources did not come to pass

I note some included Hine in the best - but his input was minimal so I am guessing that 2 goals has influenced plus that one was eye catching

We lost because we kicked only 10 goals and Membrey missed what he missed

So those 4 did not contribute - including because the ball was being marked by the opposition defenders

That is not out coached

And...Jack Steven was cooked by half way into the first, and Dan Hannebery was also cooked not much later .

The lack of height has been a significant issue for 3 years now, or longer and the ones we have aren't agile.

Brett Ratten should get this job, and he should also have a lot of say in recruiting over the next 3 years. Oh, and please start with getting B. King to the Saints, would be a great start

[barneyboyz]

I thought we were over these Lonie bashing posts......he's a good little player, we missed him terribly while he was injured, just get off his case. If he was playing injured yesterday, that's probably the reason he didn't chase, cut him some slack. Gee there are some fickle supporters on this forum.....

How long do we need to cut him some slack, we’ve been doing exactly that for the last 5yrs.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses and realise that he is nothing more than a GOP who would probably only get a game at one other club.

You might call that being fickle, I like to call it being realistic.

Hey SB, Lonie aint the reason we lost the footy. In fact, him not being there has probably accounted for more losses than him being there He ususlly does what is asked of him

[saintbob]

I thought we were over these Lonie bashing posts......he's a good little player, we missed him terribly while he was injured, just get off his case. If he was playing injured yesterday, that's probably the reason he didn't chase, cut him some slack. Gee there are some fickle supporters on this forum.....

How long do we need to cut him some slack, we’ve been doing exactly that for the last 5yrs.

Time to take off the rose coloured glasses and realise that he is nothing more than a GOP who would probably only get a game at one other club.

You might call that being fickle, I like to call it being realistic.

Hey SB, Lonie aint the reason we lost the footy. In fact, him not being there has probably accounted for more losses than him being there He ususlly does what is asked of him

I acknowledge that he wasn’t the reason we lost, but there’s certain things that stick in my memory.
One of which was that pathetic contest and chase but worse than that is his constant staging every week.

I’ll be happy to be proven wrong, but I don’t believe I will be.