AFL must explain Eleni

[saynta]

An even bigger issue than Eleni (if that is possible according to some on here):

Ray Chamberlain admitted to getting a decision wrong, because, he was expecting Jack Zybell to go harder, and as he didn't he did not award the free kick.
In his own words he said the free was there and was a mistake - but his bias (against soft players and/or staging) led him not to pay it.

I wonder how many other decisions/umpires have been affected by this bias!!!

In admitting to the bias surely he is now compromised (we all know they are biased - I choose to believe unconsciously so) but the admission means that every non-call will now be scrutinized and I do not think he can continue umpiring.

"The_Dud" what is your opinion on an Umpire admitting to a bias - no matter how much we all share that bias?
Should Ray be allowed to continue umpiring?

The little weasel shouldn't have been umpiring in the first place, imho.

[perfectionist]

...

I wonder how many other decisions/umpires have been affected by this bias!!!

...

At a rough guess, I would say 100%. It's hardly new. For as long as I can remember (147 years - just call me Digger) well known players have had a certain way of playing that attracts the attention of umpires. Players who 'play for a free' are one such group, one which has included players like Kevin Bartlett all the way through to Joel Selwood, including a few from the Saints as well. Supporters (of other clubs) demand that such players not be given frees even though they are "technically" there. Umpires should have the position that until the AFL changes the rules (I.e. if a player ducks) then they should pay all frees. But how does an umpire know whether a player has deliberately ducked are just bent over this once? Player form - i.e. umpire bias.

We all know that had Adam Schneider never played for a free in his life, he would have been awarded one in the last quarter of the 2009 GF. But, like eliminating bias in the the rest of human activities, eliminating bias in umpiring is never going to happen completely either, but it's a lot less than it used to be. If you have ever get a chance to talk to Cowboy Neale, ask him his opinion of umpire Ian Robinson (who holds the record for the number of GFs umpired).

[saynta]

...

I wonder how many other decisions/umpires have been affected by this bias!!!

...

At a rough guess, I would say 100%. It's hardly new. For as long as I can remember (147 years - just call me Digger) well known players have had a certain way of playing that attracts the attention of umpires. Players who 'play for a free' are one such group, one which has included players like Kevin Bartlett all the way through to Joel Selwood, including a few from the Saints as well. Supporters (of other clubs) demand that such players not be given frees even though they are "technically" there. Umpires should have the position that until the AFL changes the rules (I.e. if a player ducks) then they should pay all frees. But how does an umpire know whether a player has deliberately ducked are just bent over this once? Player form - i.e. umpire bias.

We all know that had Adam Schneider never played for a free in his life, he would have been awarded one in the last quarter of the 2009 GF. But, like eliminating bias in the the rest of human activities, eliminating bias in umpiring is never going to happen completely either, but it's a lot less than it used to be. If you have ever get a chance to talk to Cowboy Neale, ask him his opinion of umpire Ian Robinson (who holds the record for the number of GFs umpired).

My ex and i got invited to lunch with Cowboy many years ago.

The ex was a real pain in the you know what., with no sense of humor.

The talk turned to Tasmania and players like Bonney, Stewart and the Doc.

Cowboy was holding the floor and sprouting wisdom as was his habit.

He said only three good things ever came out of Tasmania, Footballers, Apples and Whores.

The ex turned bright red and was evidently livid, indignant even.

"I will have you know that I am a Tasmanian." she huffed.

Quick as a flash, Cowboy retorted, " Really. What team did you play for."

l laughed, but was in the s*** for days for not speaking up and defending her.



True story, cross my heart.

[The_Dud]

An even bigger issue than Eleni (if that is possible according to some on here):

Ray Chamberlain admitted to getting a decision wrong, because, he was expecting Jack Ziebell to go harder, and as he didn't he did not award the free kick.
In his own words he said the free was there and was a mistake - but his bias (against soft players and/or staging) led him not to pay it.

"I don’t like paying free kicks when players put a little bit on it. It’s a free kick every day, there’s no question, it’s a missed free kick."
“If I reflect on that, it was my mentality there that was my error and that’s why I didn’t pay the free kick. I’m disappointed in myself about that.”

I wonder how many other decisions/umpires have been affected by this bias!!!

In admitting to the bias surely he is now compromised (we all know they are biased - I choose to believe unconsciously so) but the admission means that every non-call will now be scrutinized and I do not think he can continue umpiring.

"The_Dud" what is your opinion on an Umpire admitting to a bias - no matter how much we all share that bias?
Should Ray be allowed to continue umpiring?

Every single person on earth has biases, whether conscious or unconscious, so of course umpires do too. The not paying frees to players who are known stages is a good example. I think biases are shown towards certain players and certain positions, but I don’t think they’re huge or across whole teams.

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases. Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum. Obviously everybody here has a bias towards St Kilda, which is fine, but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are effecting their judgement.

[freely]

There's research on the red/blue thing - they digitally altered the colors for I think a judo competition or could have been boxing shorts. Anyway when competitors were actually equal, red was more often judged the winner. I've always thought that made red the trigger color for winners - but maybe it's the trigger color for aggressors!

[saynta]

Baker, Milney and Schneids couldn't earn a free kick for love nor money

Money might have something to do with the filth's good run though.

[st.byron]

Every single person on earth has biases, whether conscious or unconscious, so of course umpires do too. The not paying frees to players who are known stages is a good example. I think biases are shown towards certain players and certain positions, but I don’t think they’re huge or across whole teams.

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases. Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum. Obviously everybody here has a bias towards St Kilda, which is fine, but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are effecting their judgement.

Well said. Just to say, “oh yeah, maybe I’m a bit one eyed”.

[saynta]

An even bigger issue than Eleni (if that is possible according to some on here):

Ray Chamberlain admitted to getting a decision wrong, because, he was expecting Jack Ziebell to go harder, and as he didn't he did not award the free kick.
In his own words he said the free was there and was a mistake - but his bias (against soft players and/or staging) led him not to pay it.

"I don’t like paying free kicks when players put a little bit on it. It’s a free kick every day, there’s no question, it’s a missed free kick."
“If I reflect on that, it was my mentality there that was my error and that’s why I didn’t pay the free kick. I’m disappointed in myself about that.”

I wonder how many other decisions/umpires have been affected by this bias!!!

In admitting to the bias surely he is now compromised (we all know they are biased - I choose to believe unconsciously so) but the admission means that every non-call will now be scrutinized and I do not think he can continue umpiring.

"The_Dud" what is your opinion on an Umpire admitting to a bias - no matter how much we all share that bias?
Should Ray be allowed to continue umpiring?

Every single person on earth has biases, whether conscious or unconscious, so of course umpires do too. The not paying frees to players who are known stages is a good example. I think biases are shown towards certain players and certain positions, but I don’t think they’re huge or across whole teams.

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases. Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum. Obviously everybody here has a bias towards St Kilda, which is fine, but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are effecting their judgement.

That's just your biased opinion ffs.

[Sainter_Dad]

Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum.

Not a problem as far as I am concerned

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases.

This is the problem - trying to minimise the bias - most of us just accept that we are all pro St Kilda.

... but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are affecting their judgement.

I am so one eyed that I get 50% discount at Specsavers.

[The_Dud]

Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum.

Not a problem as far as I am concerned

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases.

This is the problem - trying to minimise the bias - most of us just accept that we are all pro St Kilda.

... but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are affecting their judgement.

I am so one eyed that I get 50% discount at Specsavers.

Of course we are all pro St Kilda, which is great, I don’t care how one-eyed anyone is.

But when it gets to the point where posters constantly spam and ruin threads with conspiracy theories because they can’t admit that maybe their judgement is compromised, that’s when it becomes a problem.

[saynta]

Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum.

Not a problem as far as I am concerned

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases.

This is the problem - trying to minimise the bias - most of us just accept that we are all pro St Kilda.

... but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are affecting their judgement.

I am so one eyed that I get 50% discount at Specsavers.

Of course we are all pro St Kilda, which is great, I don’t care how one-eyed anyone is.

But when it gets to the point where posters constantly spam and ruin threads with conspiracy theories because they can’t admit that maybe their judgement is compromised, that’s when it becomes a problem.

You are the problem. Your ago makes you think that you have the only valid opinion. That is pure crap.

The statistics over the years shoot down your pure white view of the world. Something stinks and others are allowed to say so without constant put downs from you and your maggot loving mates.

Every week you SPAM any post even remotely critical of the umpires and you have been doing it for
years. Pisses me off no end. You ruin thread after thread with your pathetic defence of the indefenceable. Sick making actally.

If you don't like curly and others pointing out maggot mistakes, don't read the threads.

[The_Dud]

Funny enough this is the biggest problem on this forum.

Not a problem as far as I am concerned

The solution is being able to recognise and minimise these biases.

This is the problem - trying to minimise the bias - most of us just accept that we are all pro St Kilda.

... but when judging certain events they refuse to recognise these biases are affecting their judgement.

I am so one eyed that I get 50% discount at Specsavers.

Of course we are all pro St Kilda, which is great, I don’t care how one-eyed anyone is.

But when it gets to the point where posters constantly spam and ruin threads with conspiracy theories because they can’t admit that maybe their judgement is compromised, that’s when it becomes a problem.

You are the problem. Your ago makes you think that you have the only valid opinion. That is pure crap.

The statistics over the years shoot down your pure white view of the world. Something stinks and others are allowed to say so without constant put downs from you and your maggot loving mates.

Every week you SPAM any post even remotely critical of the umpires and you have been doing it for
years. Pisses me off no end. You ruin thread after thread with your pathetic defence of the indefenceable. Sick making actally.

If you don't like curly and others pointing out maggot mistakes, don't read the threads.

Do you think you are biased towards St Kilda, Saynta?

I have never created a thread about umpiring. When posters start spamming the match thread with ridiculous umpiring conspiracies, that’s annoying. Make your own game thread specifically about umpiring and I’d be happy to avoid it!

[saynta]

Go away. You are annoying.

[Yorkeys]

The legends of Eleni in Troy (now known as Marvel Stadium) are contradictory: Homer depicts her as a wistful, even sorrowful figure, who came to regret her choices and wished to change her decision(s). Other accounts have a treacherous Eleni who simulated Bacchic rites and rejoiced in the carnage she caused. (Wikipedia - with selective editing). So really it seems a description much like most male umps. Particularly Razor, who regrets nothing and certainly rejoices in the carnage he causes with left field decisions. Now umpire Foot......see Cyclopes....

[st.byron]

My ex and i got invited to lunch with Cowboy many years ago.

The ex was a real pain in the you know what., with no sense of humor.

The talk turned to Tasmania and players like Bonney, Stewart and the Doc.

Cowboy was holding the floor and sprouting wisdom as was his habit.

He said only three good things ever came out of Tasmania, Footballers, Apples and Whores.

The ex turned bright red and was evidently livid, indignant even.

"I will have you know that I am a Tasmanian." she huffed.

Quick as a flash, Cowboy retorted, " Really. What team did you play for."

l laughed, but was in the s*** for days for not speaking up and defending her.



True story, cross my heart.

She had every right to be livid. That’s just plain misogyny.

[saynta]

My ex and i got invited to lunch with Cowboy many years ago.

The ex was a real pain in the you know what., with no sense of humor.

The talk turned to Tasmania and players like Bonney, Stewart and the Doc.

Cowboy was holding the floor and sprouting wisdom as was his habit.

He said only three good things ever came out of Tasmania, Footballers, Apples and Whores.

The ex turned bright red and was evidently livid, indignant even.

"I will have you know that I am a Tasmanian." she huffed.

Quick as a flash, Cowboy retorted, " Really. What team did you play for."

l laughed, but was in the s*** for days for not speaking up and defending her.



True story, cross my heart.

She had every right to be livid. That’s just plain misogyny.

Yeah, but it was extremely funny at the time,

Take it up with cowboy if you really are getting your knickers in a knot. I'm sure he will be sympathetic to your views.

[outside66]

My ex and i got invited to lunch with Cowboy many years ago.

The ex was a real pain in the you know what., with no sense of humor.

The talk turned to Tasmania and players like Bonney, Stewart and the Doc.

Cowboy was holding the floor and sprouting wisdom as was his habit.

He said only three good things ever came out of Tasmania, Footballers, Apples and Whores.

The ex turned bright red and was evidently livid, indignant even.

"I will have you know that I am a Tasmanian." she huffed.

Quick as a flash, Cowboy retorted, " Really. What team did you play for."

l laughed, but was in the s*** for days for not speaking up and defending her.



True story, cross my heart.

She had every right to be livid. That’s just plain misogyny.

I reckon, she didn't even address the 'whore' part. Very sexist of her...

[saynta]

My ex and i got invited to lunch with Cowboy many years ago.

The ex was a real pain in the you know what., with no sense of humor.

The talk turned to Tasmania and players like Bonney, Stewart and the Doc.

Cowboy was holding the floor and sprouting wisdom as was his habit.

He said only three good things ever came out of Tasmania, Footballers, Apples and Whores.

The ex turned bright red and was evidently livid, indignant even.

"I will have you know that I am a Tasmanian." she huffed.

Quick as a flash, Cowboy retorted, " Really. What team did you play for."

l laughed, but was in the s*** for days for not speaking up and defending her.



True story, cross my heart.

She had every right to be livid. That’s just plain misogyny.

I reckon, she didn't even address the 'whore' part. Very sexist of her...

. I don't have fond memories of the woman, or, in fact, even Tasmania .

It was over 40 years ago. He might have said "loose women" but in any event Cowboy wasn't being polite to Taswegians.

Reckoned that John Bonney took the top off a beer bottle on the edge of a team mates very expensive teak dinning table.

[Sainternist]

Umpire Glouftsis simply isn’t up to AFL standard. The League has shoehorned her in at the elite level for the sake of their token egalitarian agenda. She was dropped for about 10 weeks after she made a meal of the WCE game. Not sure why they brought her back. Of course, she’ll never be officiating any of the bigger games.

[chook23]

appointed Fri night game

Melb v Swans

[Saintmatt]

appointed Fri night game

Melb v Swans

Holy f$ck. That's staggering.

This might make this complete and utter sh!tshow of a fixture worth watching now.

[saintspremiers]

appointed Fri night game

Melb v Swans

So our buddy has been given a Friday night gig - albeit the dunce game of the round.

With no pressure and both teams not playing for anything it should be fairly bruise-free and easy to umpire.

The AFL will expout how wonderful she is and deserved of the gig.

[Sainter_Dad]

appointed Fri night game

Melb v Swans

Maybe CURLY et al. and The_Dud et al. should watch and take notes and see if they both agree as to positives / negatives of her umpiring - seeing that all biases will be taken away - and you guys may find some common ground.

[The_Dud]

appointed Fri night game

Melb v Swans

Maybe CURLY et al. and The_Dud et al. should watch and take notes and see if they both agree as to positives / negatives of her umpiring - seeing that all biases will be taken away - and you guys may find some common ground.

Curly (and others on here) hate her regardless of what she does, so I’m pretty sure I know the outcome! Clearly the AFL were happy with her performance, which was a perfectly fine one.

Anyway, I’ll be watching the Steve Smith show tonight!

[kosifantutti]

Lots were confident she’d be dropped, now a Friday night game is confirmation that she was terrible last week?