Caro on Ben King

[CQ SAINT]

He’s uncontracted at the end of next year - but not a free agent. The way I understand it is that GC would be well within their rights to keep him on their list and make him stand out of footy if a new contract isn’t signed or a favourable deal isn’t done. So in other words, we still need to give up something to get him .

I know we need mids, but I say give up our first rounder now. We know we get a player that will be pushing for selection in our best 22 almost from day 1, and will develop into the key of our defence once Brown and Carlisle have retired.

Gold Coast wouldn't dare send him to the draft or make him sit out, the AFL wouldn't allow it after all the concessions and handouts they have been given. Offer them next years first and Newnes now. They'd be mad not to take them.

Might need to sweeten that deal by not sending Newnes across....sorry Jack

We could pay half his first years base wage to twist their arms

[silverhalo]

He’s uncontracted at the end of next year - but not a free agent. The way I understand it is that GC would be well within their rights to keep him on their list and make him stand out of footy if a new contract isn’t signed or a favourable deal isn’t done. So in other words, we still need to give up something to get him .

I know we need mids, but I say give up our first rounder now. We know we get a player that will be pushing for selection in our best 22 almost from day 1, and will develop into the key of our defence once Brown and Carlisle have retired.

You're right....my mistake, I was thinking free agent. That puts a different slant on things then.....if we're having to trade for him anyway next year, let's just try and get Benny boy now.

[saintsRrising]

Membrey trade for king

Why? Do we have another medium forward let alone one as good as Membrey?

I personally want to strengthen the areas we are weak in rather than to create new weaknesses.

Membrey is a perfect complement for the talls and smalls in our forward line and he makes our team better.

Membrey is an accurate shot on goals. How many of his team mates are?

Membrey CHOSE to come to the Saints. You develop good teams through players like Membrey.

[saintsRrising]

He’s uncontracted at the end of next year - but not a free agent. The way I understand it is that GC would be well within their rights to keep him on their list and make him stand out of footy if a new contract isn’t signed or a favourable deal isn’t done. So in other words, we still need to give up something to get him .

I know we need mids, but I say give up our first rounder now. We know we get a player that will be pushing for selection in our best 22 almost from day 1, and will develop into the key of our defence once Brown and Carlisle have retired.

You're right....my mistake, I was thinking free agent. That puts a different slant on things then.....if we're having to trade for him anyway next year, let's just try and get Benny boy now.

No I believe you are both wrong. At the end of 2020 the Suns cannot keep BKing on their list unless he is contracted.

Players can only be kept on Club Lists if they are Registered, and players can only be Registered if they are Contracted.

All Contracts of Service lodged with the AFL under these Rules shall terminate
or expire (other than by reason of default or breach which entitles any party to
terminate) on or prior to the 31st day of October in the final year in which the
Player's services are to be provided under such contract.

Furthermore:
If a contract between a Club and a Player expires on 31 October in any year,
the Player shall remain registered as a Player of and be bound to the Club until
the conclusion of the National Draft Selection Meeting in the relevant year.
This Rule does not apply if the Club deletes the Player’s name from its List
during the period 31 October until the time and day when the de-listed Player is
able to nominate for the National Draft Selection Meeting under Rule 6.2(c).

and lastly:

7.3 Players to Nominate (for the Pre-Season Draft)
(a) A listed and uncontracted Player who desires to be included in the Pre-Season
Draft shall lodge with the AFL by 2.00 p.m. on a date determined by the AFL
for the Pre-Season Draft a duly completed nomination in the form prescribed in
Schedule 1 as Form 11.

So if uncontracted, but still listed the player can then nominate for the Pre-Season Draft as he is only bound till the conclusion of the National Draft.

So if Ben does not sign a new contract he will still be uncontracted and uncontracted players are easier to gain than contracted players as the club the player is at can lose the player for nothing.

If the Suns offer him a contract he will not be eligible be a Delisted Free Agent, but h can still walk.

An uncontracted player can only move club via trade or the drafts, So if Ben refuses to sign a new contract when his current one finishes he can walk to a new club, BUT HE CANNOT CHOOSE WHICH CLUB.
As per above if not delisted he cannot nominate for National Draft but can nominate for the PSD.

The drawback here is that PSD order is decided by ladder finish and if clubs have kept a list spot open. So Ben could be drafted by any club who he is a live pick for, and this may not be the Saints.


This is why the Suns position is weakened next year as they cannot stop him going. But they can with Ben's agreement trade him to a Club that Ben chooses.

If no trade then Ben would nominate for the draft. Delisted Primary List Players must stipulate
if they are either entering the National draft or if the Nomination is to be held over for the Pre-Season Draft (thus by – passing the National Draft).

If uncontracted but not delisted then at the conclusion of the National Draft Ben becomes eligible for the PSD.

[BackFromUSA]

In that scenario another Melbourne club below us in next years ladder e.g. Melbourne or Carlton or North (as examples) would grab him first.

Trade for him this year.

Our first pick plus a player from our multitude of half back flankers / forward pockets will do! Even 2 players if we need to sweeten the deal.

They lose one year of development but receive back same level of national draft pick they used plus one or two ready to play players.

[SaintPav]

Membrey trade for king

Brilliant

[longtimesaint]

Membrey trade for king

Brilliant

Let’s give them Gresham and Billings as well!

[fugazi]

DMac and a first rounder

[Joffa Burns]

I doubt a free agent like Newnes & our first pick will get it done, if the GC rate him highly.

The only player that could be considered a top 12 player at the club when fit and potentially surplus to our needs is Webster.

If Newnes was happy to go to GC and they wanted him.

Newnes FA to GC and we don’t match offer and get a 3rd round compensation pick in return.

Our first pick + Webster for B.King

Saints get King & 3rd round pick
Lose 1st round pick + Webster + Newnes

GC get 1st round pick, Webster & Newnes
Lose B.King

[B.M]

There is a perception that Carlisle is a gun, there is also a reality.

We don’t need an intercept marking loose man down back, we need a good Key Defender, who can compete with gun forwards, which he is not.

[Saintmatt]

I would trade Carlisle for King in a heartbeat.

I'd not actually thought about that possibility. That's a pretty good call - precisely the type of thing that say, Clarko would do to keep re-generating their list.

[The_President]

There is a perception that Carlisle is a gun, there is also a reality.

We don’t need an intercept marking loose man down back, we need a good Key Defender, who can compete with gun forwards, which he is not.

Gets out bodied by much smaller opponents... then cracks the sads... then gives away free kicks.

Only happy when he gets to play against nobody.

[Saintmatt]

We would be crazy to take a second rounder for Stuv.
Geelong can be told where to stick it!

29yo with mental health issues, I’m not sure we’ll get anymore than a second rounder.
We can’t be seen getting in his way, otherwise we’ll look like the bad ones.
If they offer up Constable then it’ll be a clean swap

Correct. Anyone who thinks we're getting a 1st rounder for Stuv is dreaming. Dead set dreaming. Looking from the other side of the fence, would we as a collective be happy paying that amount of currency for a 29 yo who's got issues? No. Not a chance.

Have a look at the bile spewed on here about us paying pick 39 (and a 2019 pick swap) for a 28 yo, 3 time AA, Premiership player in Hanners.

I love Stuv but FFS - some ppl on here need to get realistic.

If we got Constable straight swap; I'd certainly not be unhappy.

[Saintmatt]

I doubt a free agent like Newnes & our first pick will get it done, if the GC rate him highly.

The only player that could be considered a top 12 player at the club when fit and potentially surplus to our needs is Webster.

If Newnes was happy to go to GC and they wanted him.

Newnes FA to GC and we don’t match offer and get a 3rd round compensation pick in return.

Our first pick + Webster for B.King

Saints get King & 3rd round pick
Lose 1st round pick + Webster + Newnes

GC get 1st round pick, Webster & Newnes
Lose B.King

I don't mind that at all however .... spending our 1st pick on Ben King means that we have no first rounder (let alone 2 x 1st rounders) to satisfy Freo for Brad Hill.

[CQ SAINT]

There is a perception that Carlisle is a gun, there is also a reality.

We don’t need an intercept marking loose man down back, we need a good Key Defender, who can compete with gun forwards, which he is not.

Gets out bodied by much smaller opponents... then cracks the sads... then gives away free kicks.

Only happy when he gets to play against nobody.

So if we trade Carlisle for King, who plays the good key defender role next year. Dont say Brown. Against Geelong, WC, Richmond, GWS and Collingwood, you are kidding yourself. Controlling the tempo and keeping the ball locked forward is the only way to beat those teams. That's when a loose, intercepting, play reading tall like Carlisle comes into play.

[saintsRrising]

In that scenario another Melbourne club below us in next years ladder e.g. Melbourne or Carlton or North (as examples) would grab him first.

My main point was that is why his trade cost would be less next year than this year.

I would not like to see us trade for Ben this year if it is a pick only swap as I believe that will do more harm than good to our list.

[Rubyjo]

Membrey trade for king

Why? Do we have another medium forward let alone one as good as Membrey?

I personally want to strengthen the areas we are weak in rather than to create new weaknesses.

Membrey is a perfect complement for the talls and smalls in our forward line and he makes our team better.

Membrey is an accurate shot on goals. How many of his team mates are?

Membrey CHOSE to come to the Saints. You develop good teams through players like Membrey.

Why... Because we need to trade.. King plays forward as well as back.. King should be a better goal kicker than membrey.. We desperately want king.. Gc won't want newnes or DMAC...

Got to give something to get something.. If its to be next year.. I love membrey but seems to be the one with value.

[BackFromUSA]

I actually think Ben King will cost more at the end of next year!

[sunsaint]

I actually think Ben King will cost more at the end of next year!

If he continues with current form then I agree
That's the risk - MIGHT ALSO DO HIS KNEE

Do a deal with Carlisle that would appeal to them
Get some picks swap as steak knives sweetener

[The_President]

I actually think Ben King will cost more at the end of next year!

Totally agree.

Aside from being Max’s brother and a former top 10 pick.

Ben has already shown elite potential in a handful of games. People arguing that we shouldn’t trade for him now, or that a first and a player is too much to trade just don’t have vision.

[saintsRrising]

.. King should be a better goal kicker than membrey..

I doubt that a forward line with both Max and Ben King in it would work well. I would rather have a forward line with Max and Members with a Bruce or Battle in it, than two Kings and a Bruce/Battle.

If the Saints do chase him it would surely to be to have a King at either end of the ground.

[saintsRrising]

I actually think Ben King will cost more at the end of next year!

Totally agree.

Aside from being Max’s brother and a former top 10 pick.

Ben has already shown elite potential in a handful of games. People arguing that we shouldn’t trade for him now, or that a first and a player is too much to trade just don’t have vision.

If you mean our first and Membrey then no I don't have that type of vision.

If you mean our first and our discards then I doubt that the Suns will be that generous.

I would very much like Hill and I cannot see Freo being willing to trade him in a deal that does not see us consuming our first in some one. Even if we swap our first for GWS first that may satisfy Freo, but the Suns will not take GWS's second first rounder for King.

[saintsRrising]

Don't forget too that any players you want to trade have to want to go to the Suns. This is not the USA where you can just tell players where they are going.

One of our fringe may help to get say a Martin, but for BKing they will want a quality player.

[The_President]

I actually think Ben King will cost more at the end of next year!

Totally agree.

Aside from being Max’s brother and a former top 10 pick.

Ben has already shown elite potential in a handful of games. People arguing that we shouldn’t trade for him now, or that a first and a player is too much to trade just don’t have vision.

If you mean our first and Membrey then no I don't have that type of vision.

If you mean our first and our discards then I doubt that the Suns will be that generous.

I would very much like Hill and I cannot see Freo being willing to trade him in a deal that does not see us consuming our first in some one. Even if we swap our first for GWS first that may satisfy Freo, but the Suns will not take GWS's second first rounder for King.

No, I'm very much pro Membrey. Check out the Membrey Accuracy thread. He's my boy.

[Rubyjo]

Maybe two Kings and a Bruce will do the job