AFL must explain Eleni

[st.byron]

I don't think there's been a game where everyone goes home happy with the umpiring. There are s*** calls/non-calls every week and yesterday was no exception. I wonder whether there would still be the same amount of vitriol directed towards Eleni if she happened to be a bloke instead? Doubt it...

15,000 to 18,000 people were all wrong then. in your eyes.

Happens every week mate

Exactly. Try going to a game in Perth. 40,000 plus are regularly all wrong.

[Josh Battle]

I'm no chauvanist but I like that idea

The shorts could be those ripped frayed denim numbers

...like those of the girl in the Dukes of Hazzard?

But the pressing question remains ....... can she cook?

Winning

Post of the week for mine

[barneyboyz]

She made a few shockers but will hopefully learn from them - that's my take because we won. I might have been a little harder if we lost.

We won, no thanks to the maggots who tried their hardest to make sure we didn't.

Seems to be a habit with them when we play the shockers.

Not sure if you’re just baiting, repeating stuff like this by rote or you actually think about it and genuinely believe it. Don’t think there’s much thinking going on there. I think it’s just a bit of sport for you. Abusing the umps is some kind of tradition.

Whichever it is, the notion that the umps tried their hardest to make sure we didn’t win is just silly. Why is it that people feel the need to continually point the finger at the umpires and posit that they are deliberately favouring the other side?

Don’t people realise that on every fan forum for every team there are posters doing exactly the same thing. There will be people on the Dockers site claiming exactly the same thing. And the Bummers, and the Filth etc etc etc. And everyone is equally convinced that they are right and all the others are wrong.

It’s a bit like religious people claiming their God is the only one and the correct one without taking into account that other religions are doing exactly the same thing.

Another offensive post from you st b, having a go at me. You seem to make a habit of it. Been doing it for years actually.

Of course I believe they cheat, play favorites and advantage their more favoured teams. They like you make a habit of offensive practices.

Don't believe me, then have a look a the statistics for this year and the previous 10.

You seem to be even denying the whispers in the sky farce.

f***, I don't know why I bother.

Bringing god into your argument is the last straw afaic.

Yep, I read alot of people here trying to put it all down to (our) poor choices and skill etc. But, if you look at this over say 10 years, and include those statistics then yeah, there's more than just coincidence going against us and for much of the time

You bother because you can see what's happening and choose not to just wear it. Hope it turns for us and soon

[Dis Believer]

re the stats... I posted something a few weeks back that shows how umpiring is just swings and roundabouts...when I have time I’ll find it and re-post it.

Actually the main stats that I have seen on umpiring have shown that WCE have generally been top two on the positive side of free kick differential for over a decade whilst the Saints have been consistently bottom four on free kick differential for over a decade.

That means no matter what players were in our jumper, who was coaching them, what our game style was, or whether we were mostly winning games, mostly losing games or a bit of both, we have rarely received as many free kicks as our opponents. In fact we have been fairly consistently the one of the worst teams in that regards, irrelevant of all other circumstances. That sort of consistency statistically doesn't happen by chance, there is an underlying cause, or causes.....

[saynta]

re the stats... I posted something a few weeks back that shows how umpiring is just swings and roundabouts...when I have time I’ll find it and re-post it.

Actually the main stats that I have seen on umpiring have shown that WCE have generally been top two on the positive side of free kick differential for over a decade whilst the Saints have been consistently bottom four on free kick differential for over a decade.

That means no matter what players were in our jumper, who was coaching them, what our game style was, or whether we were mostly winning games, mostly losing games or a bit of both, we have rarely received as many free kicks as our opponents. In fact we have been fairly consistently the one of the worst teams in that regards, irrelevant of all other circumstances. That sort of consistency statistically doesn't happen by chance, there is an underlying cause, or causes.....

At last, someone with a clue.

Thank you True Believer.

Bottom two most of those years.

[st.byron]

Stats from 2004 - 2018 :

We are sixth worst. West Coast easily the best. Surprise surprise. If anyone should be getting upset about corruption and inequity it’s the whole competition re the bias towards West Coast. Not one year with less frees for than against. Staggering inequity in those figures.
And look at Hawks and Sydney, the supposed love child of head office. Sydney by miles the worst ratio.

[saynta]

Stats from 2004 - 2018 :

We are sixth worst. West Coast easily the best. Surprise surprise.

Backs up my argument , not yours. The first 5 years were soom of our better ones. All down hill after that.

We were in negative ground on 10 out of those 15 years, with the worst years being the last 10.

In 7 of the past 10 years we have been royally screwed.

You explain to me how there can be an 1106 differential between West Coast and the Saints.

And don't try to put it all down to the noise of affirmation as the Roos differential between the two of us was 659.

Admit it, we are being screwed.

[st.byron]

re the stats... I posted something a few weeks back that shows how umpiring is just swings and roundabouts...when I have time I’ll find it and re-post it.

Actually the main stats that I have seen on umpiring have shown that WCE have generally been top two on the positive side of free kick differential for over a decade whilst the Saints have been consistently bottom four on free kick differential for over a decade.

That means no matter what players were in our jumper, who was coaching them, what our game style was, or whether we were mostly winning games, mostly losing games or a bit of both, we have rarely received as many free kicks as our opponents. In fact we have been fairly consistently the one of the worst teams in that regards, irrelevant of all other circumstances. That sort of consistency statistically doesn't happen by chance, there is an underlying cause, or causes.....

Which stats were those?

[st.byron]

Stats from 2004 - 2018 :

We are sixth worst. West Coast easily the best. Surprise surprise.

Backe up my argument , not yours.

We were in negative ground on 10 out of those 15 years, with the worst years being the last 10.

Selective reading there on your behalf. There are 5 teams worse off than us and the two above us in the same ballpark.

[diddley]

[/quote]

We were in negative ground on 10 out of those 15 years, with the worst years being the last 10.
[/quote]

You mean, we the worst 10 years while we were terrible, making plenty of errors, both in skill and others.
I don’t mind differentials like this one, but sometimes (not always) it is us making mistakes.

[Dis Believer]

The stats I had seen were for the past decade (ten years only) and were basic free kick differential as shown in your table. I think if the same is reduced to ten years Saints go bottom four, and hawthorn jump up a few spots......I think we have only had 2, maybe 3 positive years in the past decade.

[saynta]

Stats from 2004 - 2018 :

We are sixth worst. West Coast easily the best. Surprise surprise.

Backe up my argument , not yours.

We were in negative ground on 10 out of those 15 years, with the worst years being the last 10.

Selective reading there on your behalf. There are 5 teams worse off than us and the two above us in the same ballpark.

Not if you compare the last 10 years ffs. Look at the individual years before pressing your keyboard.

[skeptic]

Boy the AFL really hates Hawthorn and Sydney

That's what I've always believed.

Just curiously, does being last automatically mean the umps are out to get you? Someone needs to be last

[st.byron]

Stats from 2004 - 2018 :

We are sixth worst. West Coast easily the best. Surprise surprise.

Backe up my argument , not yours.

We were in negative ground on 10 out of those 15 years, with the worst years being the last 10.

In 7 of the past 10 years we have been royally screwed.

You explain to me how there can be an 1106 differential between west coast and the Saints

It’s a good question; explain to me how there can be such a differential between the Saints and WCE? But not from the perspective of us being screwed but from the perspective of how the f*** can WCE be SO far in front of the rest of the comp?
If the above figures prove your point about us being screwed, then it logically follows that the five teams below us on the free kick differential are being more deliberately screwed than us.
So there’s a deliberate conspiracy theory against at least 6 teams in the competition, of which we are one?

[st.byron]

The stats I had seen were for the past decade (ten years only) and were basic free kick differential as shown in your table. I think if the same is reduced to ten years Saints go bottom four, and hawthorn jump up a few spots......I think we have only had 2, maybe 3 positive years in the past decade.

Yes true. 3 years in the positive. Same as Freo. Same as Brisbane. Freo, GWS and Sydney worse off than us.

If we are genuinely the targets of deliberate screwing, so must they be.

[saynta]

Stats from 2004 - 2018 :

We are sixth worst. West Coast easily the best. Surprise surprise.

Backe up my argument , not yours.

We were in negative ground on 10 out of those 15 years, with the worst years being the last 10.

In 7 of the past 10 years we have been royally screwed.

You explain to me how there can be an 1106 differential between west coast and the Saints

It’s a good question; explain to me how there can be such a differential between the Saints and WCE? But not from the perspective of us being screwed but from the perspective of how the f*** can WCE be SO far in front of the rest of the comp?
If the above figures prove your point about us being screwed, then it logically follows that the five teams below us on the free kick differential are being more deliberately screwed than us.
So there’s a deliberate conspiracy theory against at least 6 teams in the competition, of which we are one?

Proves to me that some teams get the rough end of the pineapple....consistently...year after year.

Do the maggots cheat, lay bets, grow up following certain teams, let the crowd influence their decisions, play favourites, dislike certain teams an individuals?

Probably a combination of all those factors. who knows.

What I can say without fear of contradiction, is that it is not a level playing field where maggot are concerned.

Hence my extreme dislike for them.

[saynta]

The stats I had seen were for the past decade (ten years only) and were basic free kick differential as shown in your table. I think if the same is reduced to ten years Saints go bottom four, and hawthorn jump up a few spots......I think we have only had 2, maybe 3 positive years in the past decade.

Yes true. 3 years in the positive. Same as Freo. Same as Brisbane. Freo, GWS and Sydney worse off than us.

If we are genuinely the targets of deliberate screwing, so must they be.

In all probability...yes.

[The_Dud]

So looking at those stats, over the 15 year period the umpires pay 1 more free kicks to our opposition than us every second game...

Damn you umpires!!!! *shakes fist*

[saynta]

So looking at those stats, over the 15 year period the umpires pay 1 more free kicks to our opposition than us every second game...

Damn you umpires!!!! *shakes fist*

No. Not good at maths mate?

10 out of 15 is two out of three ffs.

[kosifantutti]

So looking at those stats, over the 15 year period the umpires pay 1 more free kicks to our opposition than us every second game...

Damn you umpires!!!! *shakes fist*

No. Not good at maths mate?

10 out of 15 is two out of three ffs.

I’m no good at maths but that looks like 16 years to me.
16 x 22 = 352
Add about 15 finals.
187/367 is about 0.51.

Or in other words. About 1 free every 2 weeks.

Not that I think free kick count is any indicator of how good/ bad the umpiring is.

[saynta]

So looking at those stats, over the 15 year period the umpires pay 1 more free kicks to our opposition than us every second game...

Damn you umpires!!!! *shakes fist*

No. Not good at maths mate?

10 out of 15 is two out of three ffs.

I’m no good at maths but that looks like 16 years to me.
16 x 22 = 352
Add about 15 finals.
187/367 is about 0.51.

Or in other words. About 1 free every 2 weeks.

Not that I think free kick count is any indicator of how good/ bad the umpiring is.

Sorry i was relying on duds word that it was 15 years. Forgot it was 16.

[BackFromUSA]

The table would look different if you could split it to deliberate professional free kicks vs accidental free kicks.

Good coaches teach players to give away frees to slow slingshot ball use from the opposition. Make them go back while the cavalry come to clutter space and support the defenders.

Best at it Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Essendon ... and Sheedy brought it to GWS ... hang on ...

[saynta]

The table would look different if you could split it to deliberate professional free kicks vs accidental free kicks.

Good coaches teach players to give away frees to slow slingshot ball use from the opposition. Make them go back while the cavalry come to clutter space and support the defenders.

Best at it Sydney, Hawthorn, Fremantle, Essendon ... and Sheedy brought it to GWS ... hang on ...

Excellent point. Been overlooked in this thread.

[Ghost Like]

It does show the perfect storm the Western Bulldogs conjured in 2016...

First year of the Bye pre finals...players requiring that week to return.

PLUS

The most incredible run with umpiring, especially through the finals series.

Can make a difference once the umpires get caught up in the euphoria of the game & the story.

Would have loved a similar run / trend in 2010. That's a difference of 172 free kicks...now that can make a difference in a drawn game.

[The_Dud]

So looking at those stats, over the 15 year period the umpires pay 1 more free kicks to our opposition than us every second game...

Damn you umpires!!!! *shakes fist*

No. Not good at maths mate?

10 out of 15 is two out of three ffs.

I’m no good at maths but that looks like 16 years to me.
16 x 22 = 352
Add about 15 finals.
187/367 is about 0.51.

Or in other words. About 1 free every 2 weeks.

Not that I think free kick count is any indicator of how good/ bad the umpiring is.

Sorry i was relying on duds word that it was 15 years. Forgot it was 16.

Not good at maths mate?

Free kick difference divided by games played. Not sure what 10 out of 15/16 has to do with it.

Not good at apologies either mate?