Lyon

[Joffa Burns]

I like Ross as a guy, he's fantastic at communicating with young sportsmen and genuinely takes an interest, and I loved him at the Saints, but if reports are correct and 2 x Hills are leaving after Lauchie Neale last season you'd be really starting to wonder if he is in the gun and likely to get the bullet.

I discount the Kersten issue because he'd probably have been delisted anyway, but if you lose 3 players of the calibre of Neale & 2 x Hills in two years you'd be asking the question of the coach.

Have also heard that Sam Sturt is looking to come home though contracted for next season.
Not what we are looking for as a player IMO, but there would be a couple of Melbourne clubs that are interested, Melbourne being one, no idea who else.

[Teflon]

Agree Joff
I don’t think he’s a developer and imo he still as a coach hasn’t taken a struggling side and developed it into something special. He’s not what we need right now.

But the guy can coach.

[sunsaint]

If GT could have been 20% more defensive, and stopped a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

If Lyon could have been a little more offensive, and kicked a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

Go figure.

Some truth there
I also think GT needed to invest in player health like Lyon did

ok some points here - the club was broke broke BROKE when GT & Butterrs took over - no money for off field support like the other clubs
But they did turn the financial ship around and again RL enjoyed those better times
I clearly remember the early days of GTs tenure, the team was fractured with coaching changes & getting thumped, the young future superstar kids coming in did not enjoy too many early wins and often played in a full team half ground flood.
That evolved as the team got better
But you really shouldnt fool yourself by thinking RL was a coaching genius - he took the defensive game plan learned up in sydney & brought it down south - his motto was very simple you only need to kick one more point than the opposition
You also need to remind yourself of the frustration being vented by the AFL at the time when Stkilda and Swans met & led to Demtrious' comment 'this (game style) cant continue"

[Josh Battle]

Agree Joff
I don’t think he’s a developer and imo he still as a coach hasn’t taken a struggling side and developed it into something special. He’s not what we need right now.

But the guy can coach.

Like the way St Kilda climbed the ladder from the bottom to playing in consecutive preliminary finals in 2004/2005?

I suppose if it was RL or Blight was still in charge we'd all be saying what great coaches they were for lifting a striggling side from wooden spooners to playing finals 3 years in a row

[spert]

GT set up the skeleton for Lyon to put some meat on. Both GT and Lyon planned well, but suffered from a couple of key players not bringing their A games on the important finals days (GT prelim, and Lyon both GF losses). In the end, they are history and we need to look forward.

Lyon threw out Thomas’s game plan and built us a new style from scratch and got EVERY player on the list to play that way. Like him or not that’s what great coaches do.
Thomas had no real style - it was shoot out footy and as long as Gehrig kicked a ton we were all good.....problem became when we played sides who could nullify or match that aka Swans or Cats . No plan B
We do need to move forward but let’s not rewrite history along the way

Lyon was glued to Plan A , he is highly over rated,

[saynta]

GT set up the skeleton for Lyon to put some meat on. Both GT and Lyon planned well, but suffered from a couple of key players not bringing their A games on the important finals days (GT prelim, and Lyon both GF losses). In the end, they are history and we need to look forward.

Lyon threw out Thomas’s game plan and built us a new style from scratch and got EVERY player on the list to play that way. Like him or not that’s what great coaches do.
Thomas had no real style - it was shoot out footy and as long as Gehrig kicked a ton we were all good.....problem became when we played sides who could nullify or match that aka Swans or Cats . No plan B
We do need to move forward but let’s not rewrite history along the way

Lyon was glued to Plan A , he is highly over rated,

Yep, and a pretty ordinary bloke I would guess after what he did to the saints

[Teflon]

Agree Joff
I don’t think he’s a developer and imo he still as a coach hasn’t taken a struggling side and developed it into something special. He’s not what we need right now.

But the guy can coach.

Like the way St Kilda climbed the ladder from the bottom to playing in consecutive preliminary finals in 2004/2005?

I suppose if it was RL or Blight was still in charge we'd all be saying what great coaches they were for lifting a striggling side from wooden spooners to playing finals 3 years in a row

And then failed to take the next step with a star studded list everyone in the game was salivating over coaching??
I’m not interested if as a coach you can’t get your side into the big dance to give them a shot at winning the thing..
By the way, again after that meteoric rise of GTs......why didn’t another club poach him again??? I mean......what a rise right??? Do tell....

[Teflon]

If GT could have been 20% more defensive, and stopped a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

If Lyon could have been a little more offensive, and kicked a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

Go figure.

Some truth there
I also think GT needed to invest in player health like Lyon did

ok some points here - the club was broke broke BROKE when GT & Butterrs took over - no money for off field support like the other clubs
But they did turn the financial ship around and again RL enjoyed those better times
I clearly remember the early days of GTs tenure, the team was fractured with coaching changes & getting thumped, the young future superstar kids coming in did not enjoy too many early wins and often played in a full team half ground flood.
That evolved as the team got better
But you really shouldnt fool yourself by thinking RL was a coaching genius - he took the defensive game plan learned up in sydney & brought it down south - his motto was very simple you only need to kick one more point than the opposition
You also need to remind yourself of the frustration being vented by the AFL at the time when Stkilda and Swans met & led to Demtrious' comment 'this (game style) cant continue"

Horse shyte.
The club paid 300k so Grant could “round out young men” (no doubt in his image) in Sth Africa........meanwhile training services went down the toilet and soft injuries spiralled out of control
Lyon changed that immediately with personnel he brought in.....
But do keep rewriting history to suit fantasy ......

[Teflon]

GT set up the skeleton for Lyon to put some meat on. Both GT and Lyon planned well, but suffered from a couple of key players not bringing their A games on the important finals days (GT prelim, and Lyon both GF losses). In the end, they are history and we need to look forward.

Lyon threw out Thomas’s game plan and built us a new style from scratch and got EVERY player on the list to play that way. Like him or not that’s what great coaches do.
Thomas had no real style - it was shoot out footy and as long as Gehrig kicked a ton we were all good.....problem became when we played sides who could nullify or match that aka Swans or Cats . No plan B
We do need to move forward but let’s not rewrite history along the way

Lyon was glued to Plan A , he is highly over rated,

Possibly
But his plan A got us to multiple Grand Finals
How many did Grants plan A get us to???
Overrated???.....

[Teflon]

GT set up the skeleton for Lyon to put some meat on. Both GT and Lyon planned well, but suffered from a couple of key players not bringing their A games on the important finals days (GT prelim, and Lyon both GF losses). In the end, they are history and we need to look forward.

Lyon threw out Thomas’s game plan and built us a new style from scratch and got EVERY player on the list to play that way. Like him or not that’s what great coaches do.
Thomas had no real style - it was shoot out footy and as long as Gehrig kicked a ton we were all good.....problem became when we played sides who could nullify or match that aka Swans or Cats . No plan B
We do need to move forward but let’s not rewrite history along the way

Lyon was glued to Plan A , he is highly over rated,

Yep, and a pretty ordinary bloke I would guess after what he did to the saints

Not according to the players but you’d know more as a metropolitan lawyer right? If the guy needs conveyancing give him a buzz

[Scollop]

Uhhhhhmmmmmm Teflon;

Y'know what?

Who f***** gives a s*** about RL

[Teflon]

Uhhhhhmmmmmm Teflon;

Y'know what?

Who f***** gives a s*** about RL

Well.....you’re back after claiming in this thread you were done so obviously you do

[satchmo]

[The Recruit]

Credit where credits due, Ross said very nice things about Jack S and the saints late in his press conference. Even how positive Dan H leadership was at 3 quarter time...still not for our club ever again

[Scollop]

Uhhhhhmmmmmm Teflon;

Y'know what?

Who f***** gives a s*** about RL

Well.....you’re back after claiming in this thread you were done so obviously you do

Why BUMP a week later or 4-5 days later and WHY after what we saw today? Shouldn't the focus be what's ahead and not what's in the rear view mirror?

I don't understand why the f*** you'd waste your time responding to other posters with 4 posts in a row with the same old stuff. You've said nothing new tonight. Nothing that is unique or hasn't been said by you before..at least satchmo gave us a good laugh anyhow

[sunsaint]

But do keep rewriting history to suit fantasy ......

ok teflon - normally I would respect what you have written but now - youre just going off on a wild rant
accuse me of re-writing history - are you going to sit there and argue the club wasnt broke?
Combining off field job roles was a cost cutting measure & seriously do you want to argue that the innovative ideas that were introduced to the club at the time werent hailed by the rest of the clubs and media as ground breaking
So yes it did mold the minds of the young men the very foundation of gave us a score of leaders and respected heroes at the saints that we admire

AS for your constant cry of RLs finals appearances vs GTs - yep RL got more
But when it comes to the GF it is simply a two horse race and if you dont win it you come last
And after seeing 4 loses in my lifetime I have come to the conclusion that I would rather not make the GF

[Teflon]

But do keep rewriting history to suit fantasy ......

ok teflon - normally I would respect what you have written but now - youre just going off on a wild rant
accuse me of re-writing history - are you going to sit there and argue the club wasnt broke?
Combining off field job roles was a cost cutting measure & seriously do you want to argue that the innovative ideas that were introduced to the club at the time werent hailed by the rest of the clubs and media as ground breaking
So yes it did mold the minds of the young men the very foundation of gave us a score of leaders and respected heroes at the saints that we admire

AS for your constant cry of RLs finals appearances vs GTs - yep RL got more
But when it comes to the GF it is simply a two horse race and if you dont win it you come last
And after seeing 4 loses in my lifetime I have come to the conclusion that I would rather not make the GF

So you would rather not make a GF and give yourself a chance of at least winning the bloody thing?

Just bizarre ....but your call

Let’s be clear under Grant Thomas we NEVER had a chance of being day Premiers - not once..

[Teflon]

Uhhhhhmmmmmm Teflon;

Y'know what?

Who f***** gives a s*** about RL

Well.....you’re back after claiming in this thread you were done so obviously you do

Why BUMP a week later or 4-5 days later and WHY after what we saw today? Shouldn't the focus be what's ahead and not what's in the rear view mirror?

I don't understand why the f*** you'd waste your time responding to other posters with 4 posts in a row with the same old stuff. You've said nothing new tonight. Nothing that is unique or hasn't been said by you before..at least satchmo gave us a good laugh anyhow

Why the f@rk are you telling us all you are done in the thread and insisting on responding ??
What has “what we saw today” got to do with this discussion - who here is arguing Lyon circa 2019 ought to be back at our club?????
I see you’ve given up trying to pretend GT was half the coach Lyon in 09/10 was....wise move cause facts just don’t back you at all
You just spew up bile as fact ....and then point the finger at everyone else....
I agree I also got a laugh at Satch’s post.....I see Ross was laughing too....all the way to the bank ...

[sunsaint]

Let’s be clear under Grant Thomas we NEVER had a chance of being day Premiers - not once..

and four is the exact number that RL has broken hearts

so yes call me weird but you dont get a prize for finishing on top at the end of the H&A
you only get a medallion and a cup for winning the GF

[Josh Battle]

Coach A is competing against a team in a prelim (where we are favoured to win because we had comprehensively smashed them in h&a that year AND) we had the advantage of playing here in Melbourne. Coach A has a team who were top of the ladder and who were the dominant team of that year. Coach A only just falls over the line and wins a prelim in the dying minutes

Coach B is playing against a team in a prelim (where that particular team are favourites after beating us convincingly in h&a that year AND) we have to play them in enemy territory on their home ground. Coach B is up against a team were on top of the ladder and the strongest team throughout that year. Coach B only just falls short by 6 points with the opposition scoring a scrappy goal in the dying minutes

Hmmmmmmm

Can't stand Ross for the fact that he passes blame on to others and thinks his players are always to blame for losses. I understand that he honestly believes in himself (and some of his supporters believe that he is a master tactician) but most of the hard work had already been done for him at both St Kilda and at Freo

You can only fool people for so long. It's how he treated our blokes and it's how self interest is always ahead of what's best for a football club. Don't be surprised if there are more young prospects and star players deserting the Dockers.

[Teflon]

Let’s be clear under Grant Thomas we NEVER had a chance of being day Premiers - not once..

and four is the exact number that RL has broken hearts

so yes call me weird but you dont get a prize for finishing on top at the end of the H&A
you only get a medallion and a cup for winning the GF

You gotta get there to even have a shot at it and your failed phony couldn’t muster that with a star studded list
Better to be a “has been” in Lyons case than a “never was” in Thomas’s
But I get it you’re blinded by hatred so I understand your illogical argument...sort of

[Teflon]

Coach A is competing against a team in a prelim (where we are favoured to win because we had comprehensively smashed them in h&a that year AND) we had the advantage of playing here in Melbourne. Coach A has a team who were top of the ladder and who were the dominant team of that year. Coach A only just falls over the line and wins a prelim in the dying minutes

Coach B is playing against a team in a prelim (where that particular team are favourites after beating us convincingly in h&a that year AND) we have to play them in enemy territory on their home ground. Coach B is up against a team were on top of the ladder and the strongest team throughout that year. Coach B only just falls short by 6 points with the opposition scoring a scrappy goal in the dying minutes

Hmmmmmmm

Can't stand Ross for the fact that he passes blame on to others and thinks his players are always to blame for losses. I understand that he honestly believes in himself (and some of his supporters believe that he is a master tactician) but most of the hard work had already been done for him at both St Kilda and at Freo

You can only fool people for so long. It's how he treated our blokes and it's how self interest is always ahead of what's best for a football club. Don't be surprised if there are more young prospects and star players deserting the Dockers.

Coach A gets his team to 3 GF appearances...
Coach B gets his team to none
Compare the pair....

Anyhoo, players and ex champions LOVE coach A to the point they publicly state he’s what the club needs (I don’t agree)
Coach B is rent a headline that NO OTHER AFL club has touched since......and still no answers why?????????

Let’s get real for a moment - Lyon took a complete style of football and transformed the league style of play (much to the chagrin of many) but he did it. He got a playing list to absolutely buy into it.
Thomas had nothing but “good ole fashioned shoot out” and when that failed all he had was “hearts n mind” spin doctoring and 80s corporate mumbo jumbo
Does anyone think Lyons the answer here now??? Nup
But the guy could coach and in 09/10 he was top 3 in AFL
He’s finished now imho but let’s not have drivel that Gt was even comparable he was a fraud

[satchmo]

When this gets to fifteen pages I will do a score check.

[sunsaint]

Let’s get real for a moment - Lyon took a complete style of football and transformed the league style of play (much to the chagrin of many) but he did it. He got a playing list to absolutely buy into it.
Thomas had nothing but “good ole fashioned shoot out”

Love fest?
Couldn't give a toss about ross
And I would give grant scant notice in a street as someone that looks familiar
I'm not that into coaches sorry
But seriously when you keep repeating the same lies it gets frustration

Let’s get real for a moment - Lyon took a complete style of football and transformed the league style of play (much to the chagrin of many) but he did it. He got a playing list to absolutely buy into it.
Thomas had nothing but “good ole fashioned shoot out”

Lyon brought a game plan from his time at Sydney which was why a game between the two sides was a snooze fest
And I have already written that in the early days of gts tenure with the kids getting pumped we often resorted to a full team defensive flood - so at least he had two game plans unlike RL"S one

[SaintPav]

Not sure why people are hung up comparing Thomo and old greedy guts.

Two very different coaches for the times. They both had their strengths and weaknesses. I liked that Thomo was a Saints man and that he was up for the fight. Ross Lyon was the better coach but it’s all history now. Thomo actually tried to get Rossy Lyon to St Kilda as an assistant a few years before. I think it would have been useless as Thomo was a control freak and probably incapable of delegating and would have still done his own thing.

Anyway, the choice at the end of 2002 was Chris Connolly or Thomo. Wasn’t sold on Connolly, particularly the way he whined on after sirengate.

Thomo was a symptom of the club’s issues as an organisation including cronyism and a piss weak board and senior management who either didn’t have the balls or interest to stand up to him. Thomo just took advantage of the environment that allowed him to prosper.