Lyon

[Teflon]

GT has always stated he was not interested in coaching another club

Ofcourse he has and to buy that crap?
Honestly you have zero experience in business if you believe that rubbish
The guy was a disease every other club knew - the AFL is an incestuous cesspit and they all know whose decent and whose a spud

Honestly

[Teflon]

GT would never be picked for another club because he is seen as a Saints man. He only really stepped up to coach as a kind of caretaker experiment because we were in the pooh and then stayed because his management-style quasi-coaching seemed to be working. He always acknowledged Lyon as a better coach and, to my recollection, was always supportive of him.

Re the main argument about who was better though - there can never be agreement. Lyon was better in terms of results, GT was better in terms of sheer joy and excitement going to the game. Teflon's unarguably right that Lyon took us closer to our second flag than any other coach but it's also true for most of us that the games were horrible to watch. We all want a flag (so we'll all put up with Lyon) but most seasons - even if we become a successful club! - we won't be getting one (so we'd rather watch games coached by GT).

The only thing we may be able to agree on is that we don't want either of them back!

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 including the undefeated Cats in some argue was the best H/A game for skill of the modern era....

I guess if “sheer joy” is your measure you better get round to GTs for a bbq to heat more 80s management corporate cliches and “it was all Rod Butters” fault drivel

[Scollop]

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 ...

So..."when we were smacking sides" implies that you're bragging about a McLelland trophy...hmmmm

I would have thought if you've secured a top 2 position by round 15 that you need to manage your stars. Use the depth on the list and test the guys who might just be in cruise mode and make them understand their position is not guaranteed. You need to NOT fear dropping a game or 2 between rounds 16-20 and you need to find out if there are young players who can provide surprises to your opposition when you need a trump card or two in finals.

Lyon was still thrashing the furcken ferrari even though he was a lap in front. f***wit!!

Yep. There was a couple of games I'd like to forget in 2009...I drank myself to a stupour watching the prelim and watching us just scrape through against the team we smashed in home and away. The next week on 26th September 2009 was also a game I'd like to forget

Neutral supporters from other clubs are pissing themselves laughing that there are Saints fans who want to celebrate wins in home and away

[SaintPav]

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 ...

So..."when we smacking sides" implies that you're bragging about a McLelland trophy...hmmmm

Yep. There was a couple of games I'd like to forget in 2009...I drank myself to a stupour watching the prelim and watching us just scrape through against the team we smashed in home and away. The next week on 26th September 2009 was also a game I'd like to forget

Neutral supporters from other clubs are pissing themselves laughing that there are Saints fans who want to clebrate wins in home and away

Which fans are celebrating wins in home and away Scollop?

[Scollop]

plugger66

[SaintPav]

Sad git.

[freely]

So me and plugger66 have something in common. Who'd've thunk it!

[Teflon]

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 ...

So..."when we were smacking sides" implies that you're bragging about a McLelland trophy...hmmmm

I would have thought if you've secured a top 2 position by round 15 that you need to manage your stars. Use the depth on the list and test the guys who might just be in cruise mode and make them understand their position is not guaranteed. You need to NOT fear dropping a game or 2 between rounds 16-20 and you need to find out if there are young players who can provide surprises to your opposition when you need a trump card or two in finals.

Lyon was still thrashing the furcken ferrari even though he was a lap in front. f***wit!!

Yep. There was a couple of games I'd like to forget in 2009...I drank myself to a stupour watching the prelim and watching us just scrape through against the team we smashed in home and away. The next week on 26th September 2009 was also a game I'd like to forget

Neutral supporters from other clubs are pissing themselves laughing that there are Saints fans who want to celebrate wins in home and away

Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT released his “the streak” off the back of a pathetic 10 game run that ultimately couldn’t get us past a prelim?
Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT was spending 300k we didn’t have on field trips to South Africa while investment in “Training Services” went down the sh!tter and while we were smashed by soft tissue injuries and playing injured players in 05 prelim that ultimately robbed us of fit players when we needed them most?
Who was flogging the Ferrari then genius??
Take another drink.......
Bet you were there drinking and cheering Lyon on in 09/10 when he at LEAST got us within a shot of winning the thing.......while your mate GT was unemployed....
Take another drink...

[The_Dud]

I think Nathan is doing a fantastic job on day 5, you guys need to go easy on him!

[loris]

I think Nathan is doing a fantastic job on day 5, you guys need to go easy on him!

[Scollop]

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 ...

So..."when we were smacking sides" implies that you're bragging about a McLelland trophy...hmmmm

I would have thought if you've secured a top 2 position by round 15 that you need to manage your stars. Use the depth on the list and test the guys who might just be in cruise mode and make them understand their position is not guaranteed. You need to NOT fear dropping a game or 2 between rounds 16-20 and you need to find out if there are young players who can provide surprises to your opposition when you need a trump card or two in finals.

Lyon was still thrashing the furcken ferrari even though he was a lap in front. f***wit!!

Yep. There was a couple of games I'd like to forget in 2009...I drank myself to a stupour watching the prelim and watching us just scrape through against the team we smashed in home and away. The next week on 26th September 2009 was also a game I'd like to forget

Neutral supporters from other clubs are pissing themselves laughing that there are Saints fans who want to celebrate wins in home and away

Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT released his “the streak” off the back of a pathetic 10 game run that ultimately couldn’t get us past a prelim?
Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT was spending 300k we didn’t have on field trips to South Africa while investment in “Training Services” went down the sh!tter and while we were smashed by soft tissue injuries and playing injured players in 05 prelim that ultimately robbed us of fit players when we needed them most?
Who was flogging the Ferrari then genius??
Take another drink.......
Bet you were there drinking and cheering Lyon on in 09/10 when he at LEAST got us within a shot of winning the thing.......while your mate GT was unemployed....
Take another drink...

I only cheer a coach who has actually done something. Lyin walked in to a club that had a champion team that had just played off in 2 consecutive prelims. Pity he couldn't get the job done...no matter how many chances his players provided for him

Sounds to me like you're a bit like Richo. You're just looking at all the negatives with Grant and you refuse to acknowledge the legacy he left for Ross. That's ok. You can have your opinion. No one can take that away from you.

If Ratten can come up with a plan to counter Sandilands dominance and quell Brad Hill, Nate Fyfe, Michael Walters and Ed Langdon then I suppose all the Lyin lovers will say we have a better squad...LOL

[SaintPav]

Didn’t know Thomo was producing DVDs.

He had his fingers in lots of pies.

[takeaway]

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 ...

So..."when we were smacking sides" implies that you're bragging about a McLelland trophy...hmmmm

I would have thought if you've secured a top 2 position by round 15 that you need to manage your stars. Use the depth on the list and test the guys who might just be in cruise mode and make them understand their position is not guaranteed. You need to NOT fear dropping a game or 2 between rounds 16-20 and you need to find out if there are young players who can provide surprises to your opposition when you need a trump card or two in finals.

Lyon was still thrashing the furcken ferrari even though he was a lap in front. f***wit!!

Yep. There was a couple of games I'd like to forget in 2009...I drank myself to a stupour watching the prelim and watching us just scrape through against the team we smashed in home and away. The next week on 26th September 2009 was also a game I'd like to forget

Neutral supporters from other clubs are pissing themselves laughing that there are Saints fans who want to celebrate wins in home and away

Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT released his “the streak” off the back of a pathetic 10 game run that ultimately couldn’t get us past a prelim?
Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT was spending 300k we didn’t have on field trips to South Africa while investment in “Training Services” went down the sh!tter and while we were smashed by soft tissue injuries and playing injured players in 05 prelim that ultimately robbed us of fit players when we needed them most?
Who was flogging the Ferrari then genius??
Take another drink.......
Bet you were there drinking and cheering Lyon on in 09/10 when he at LEAST got us within a shot of winning the thing.......while your mate GT was unemployed....
Take another drink...

I only cheer a coach who has actually done something. Lyin walked in to a club that had a champion team that had just played off in 2 consecutive prelims. Pity he couldn't get the job done...no matter how many chances his players provided for him

Sounds to me like you're a bit like Richo. You're just looking at all the negatives with Grant and you refuse to acknowledge the legacy he left for Ross. That's ok. You can have your opinion. No one can take that away from you.

If Ratten can come up with a plan to counter Sandilands dominance and quell Brad Hill, Nate Fyfe, Michael Walters and Ed Langdon then I suppose all the Lyin lovers will say we have a better squad...LOL

So you cheered a bit more for Lyon compared to GT? I guess so, because Lyon was more successful. Both had very good teams, GT couldn't even get to one GF.

[Teflon]

I honestly don’t recall watching any horrible games in 09 when we were smacking sides 19-0 ...

So..."when we were smacking sides" implies that you're bragging about a McLelland trophy...hmmmm

I would have thought if you've secured a top 2 position by round 15 that you need to manage your stars. Use the depth on the list and test the guys who might just be in cruise mode and make them understand their position is not guaranteed. You need to NOT fear dropping a game or 2 between rounds 16-20 and you need to find out if there are young players who can provide surprises to your opposition when you need a trump card or two in finals.

Lyon was still thrashing the furcken ferrari even though he was a lap in front. f***wit!!

Yep. There was a couple of games I'd like to forget in 2009...I drank myself to a stupour watching the prelim and watching us just scrape through against the team we smashed in home and away. The next week on 26th September 2009 was also a game I'd like to forget

Neutral supporters from other clubs are pissing themselves laughing that there are Saints fans who want to celebrate wins in home and away

Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT released his “the streak” off the back of a pathetic 10 game run that ultimately couldn’t get us past a prelim?
Did you drink yourself to a stupor when GT was spending 300k we didn’t have on field trips to South Africa while investment in “Training Services” went down the sh!tter and while we were smashed by soft tissue injuries and playing injured players in 05 prelim that ultimately robbed us of fit players when we needed them most?
Who was flogging the Ferrari then genius??
Take another drink.......
Bet you were there drinking and cheering Lyon on in 09/10 when he at LEAST got us within a shot of winning the thing.......while your mate GT was unemployed....
Take another drink...

I only cheer a coach who has actually done something. Lyin walked in to a club that had a champion team that had just played off in 2 consecutive prelims. Pity he couldn't get the job done...no matter how many chances his players provided for him

Sounds to me like you're a bit like Richo. You're just looking at all the negatives with Grant and you refuse to acknowledge the legacy he left for Ross. That's ok. You can have your opinion. No one can take that away from you.

If Ratten can come up with a plan to counter Sandilands dominance and quell Brad Hill, Nate Fyfe, Michael Walters and Ed Langdon then I suppose all the Lyin lovers will say we have a better squad...LOL

So you cheered a bit more for Lyon compared to GT? I guess so, because Lyon was more successful. Both had very good teams, GT couldn't even get to one GF.

PRECISELY the point Take Away
I get the Lyon hate and have already said he’s past his use by date but for these GT apologists to suggest he could t coach or he miraculously just “picked up Grants legacy” is absolutely laughable.

Let’s be clear - in 09 Lyons game plan revolutionised the game to the point the Pies and Malthouse copied (and e executed better) to win a flag.
Thomas was a 1 trick pony with a star studded list including Gehrig, Hamil, Jones, Harvey, Powell, Hudgton, Peckett, Voss, Blake, Hayes, Riewoldt, Kosi, Goddard, Ball, Guerra, Swarze, Maguire .....it goes on
The guy COULD NOT even get that side into a GF FFS
Wake up he was coach on emotion, 1 game plan and when that failed we faulted.
As ex AFL assistant coach under Thomas mentioned to me word for word “Thomas f@rked your club” this guy was sacked by Lyon and still insisted Lyon was the best, most meticulous coach he’d ever seen.
Get in the real world ffs

[freely]

Lyon also had/has just one game plan - but it's a much harder one to beat.

[bigred]

If GT could have been 20% more defensive, and stopped a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

If Lyon could have been a little more offensive, and kicked a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

Go figure.

[Teflon]

If GT could have been 20% more defensive, and stopped a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

If Lyon could have been a little more offensive, and kicked a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

Go figure.

Some truth there
I also think GT needed to invest in player health like Lyon did

[Scollop]

If GT could have been 20% more defensive, and stopped a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

If Lyon could have been a little more offensive, and kicked a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

Go figure.

This.

Half a dozen of the guys that Teflon mentioned in GT's so called star studded list were just teens when GT became coach. GT was the guy that coached a young team in transition and before the core group of young leaders had time to mature he was SACKED.

Lyin was the guy who inherited the team who were about to enter their very best years as mature footballers. We all now know he had at his disposal some of St Kilda's best ever players in its history. Lyin picked up a team that had played in 3 consecutive finals series including prelims in 2004/2005. GT picked up a team that had just finished last on the ladder!!

GT stuck his finger up at headquaerters. GT was outspoken. GT couldn't give a rats if he was employed by another football club or not because he was only ever interested in assisting the Saints to be a successful club.

Lyin had his mates Paul Roos and Robert Walls who not only assited him to gain the plum job at St Kilda, but through their senior media roles they helped perpetuate the myth of the 'legendary great coach'. Lyin looked after himself and was always respectful of the AFL and his bosses and thinking ahead to ensure he could keep working. As soon as Lyin saw an opportunity to dump the club that had given him his senior coaching opportunity he grabbed it.

Sorry about another lengthy post. Last time I respond on this topic.

Wouldn't it be easy if you could just bottle up a formula for winning finals and grand finals? Why is it that sometimes you win all the important statistics and yet you can lose on the scoreboard? Why is it that Lyin had the most revolutionary gameplan and we dominated teams in home and away in 2009 and yet he couldn't get the job done on that last day in September?

The passion and the loyalty that the 2009/2010 group felt towards each other and the inner belief that built up over many years was one of the intangibles that drove the team imo. In the end, the guy who led us in 2009/2010 lacked the passion and the loyalty that his predecessor had.

Like all coaches RL has learnt on the job and if by some chance we were to land him, I wouldn't be that dissappointed. FWIW, I think Lyin is a much better coach now than he was when he first started or in 2009/2010. I have also posted many times that I believe that GT would have also learnt and improved on the job if he had not been sacked.

I was really pissed off with the way RL shifted blame onto everyone else after our finals losses. I thought he was a role player that basically let down the team. I was more angry with Rod Butters and the board that sacked GT because I had always felt and always believed that the young group who turned into men and leaders under GT would have got the job done for their coach

[spert]

GT set up the skeleton for Lyon to put some meat on. Both GT and Lyon planned well, but suffered from a couple of key players not bringing their A games on the important finals days (GT prelim, and Lyon both GF losses). In the end, they are history and we need to look forward.

[Teflon]

If GT could have been 20% more defensive, and stopped a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

If Lyon could have been a little more offensive, and kicked a few more goals each week, then we probably would have won a couple of flags.

Go figure.

This.

Half a dozen of the guys that Teflon mentioned in GT's so called star studded list were just teens when GT became coach. GT was the guy that coached a young team in transition and before the core group of young leaders had time to mature he was SACKED.

Lyin was the guy who inherited the team who were about to enter their very best years as mature footballers. We all now know he had at his disposal some of St Kilda's best ever players in its history. Lyin picked up a team that had played in 3 consecutive finals series including prelims in 2004/2005. GT picked up a team that had just finished last on the ladder!!

GT stuck his finger up at headquaerters. GT was outspoken. GT couldn't give a rats if he was employed by another football club or not because he was only ever interested in assisting the Saints to be a successful club.

Lyin had his mates Paul Roos and Robert Walls who not only assited him to gain the plum job at St Kilda, but through their senior media roles they helped perpetuate the myth of the 'legendary great coach'. Lyin looked after himself and was always respectful of the AFL and his bosses and thinking ahead to ensure he could keep working. As soon as Lyin saw an opportunity to dump the club that had given him his senior coaching opportunity he grabbed it.

Sorry about another lengthy post. Last time I respond on this topic.

Wouldn't it be easy if you could just bottle up a formula for winning finals and grand finals? Why is it that sometimes you win all the important statistics and yet you can lose on the scoreboard? Why is it that Lyin had the most revolutionary gameplan and we dominated teams in home and away in 2009 and yet he couldn't get the job done on that last day in September?

The passion and the loyalty that the 2009/2010 group felt towards each other and the inner belief that built up over many years was one of the intangibles that drove the team imo. In the end, the guy who led us in 2009/2010 lacked the passion and the loyalty that his predecessor had.

Like all coaches RL has learnt on the job and if by some chance we were to land him, I wouldn't be that dissappointed. FWIW, I think Lyin is a much better coach now than he was when he first started or in 2009/2010. I have also posted many times that I believe that GT would have also learnt and improved on the job if he had not been sacked.

I was really pissed off with the way RL shifted blame onto everyone else after our finals losses. I thought he was a role player that basically let down the team. I was more angry with Rod Butters and the board that sacked GT because I had always felt and always believed that the young group who turned into men and leaders under GT would have got the job done for their coach

What a load of tripe
Again, you ask why couldn’t Lyon win a flag - why don’t you answer why GT couldn’t get us to the last Sat in September at all?.
GT stuck his finger up at HQ......whoopdy Doo!!! That did us loads of good....(but somehow made you feel tough for 5 minutes). Arrogant and dumb is what most people in the industry call it.
The list - GTs bottom end list shat on what Lyon had - he had hardened very good footballers at his disposal and the competitions most talented youth coming on at the same time, the perfect blend and still could not get the job done. Why were the Cats so upset about whose list was better???? EVERYONE in the AFL knew he had the best list st his disposal going round. The fact he mismanaged soft tissue injuries is where you might want to ask a question???
GT ....never wanted to coach anyone else.....LMFAO this is perhaps the biggest load of Shyte I’ve ever read - NO ONE has come knocking?????? Answer me why??? FFS Alan Richardson’s already been approached for roles......not Grant your messiah why???
You speak from opinion (which is fine) but it’s just your view with no substance. I’ve spoken to people who were at the club under Thomas and sacked by Lyon and they don’t share your “romantic” GT love I can assure you.....and they know a lot more than you or I....
Lastly, Lyon is not a better coach now at all - the game has moved and he hasn’t and his results are showing us that ...more nonsense. In 09 imo he was certainly one of the best getting around. GT was never mentioned by anyone as a great coach.
Lastly, the players loved Lyon. They to this day want him back (I don’t) NOT ONE player has come out and said “we need Grant back...”
Now why is that?
Best not answer I fear your blinkers are on to tight.

[B.M]

Teflon

When A number of AA’s say someone could coach and had a huge influence on their career

I’ll take their word for it

[Teflon]

GT set up the skeleton for Lyon to put some meat on. Both GT and Lyon planned well, but suffered from a couple of key players not bringing their A games on the important finals days (GT prelim, and Lyon both GF losses). In the end, they are history and we need to look forward.

Lyon threw out Thomas’s game plan and built us a new style from scratch and got EVERY player on the list to play that way. Like him or not that’s what great coaches do.
Thomas had no real style - it was shoot out footy and as long as Gehrig kicked a ton we were all good.....problem became when we played sides who could nullify or match that aka Swans or Cats . No plan B
We do need to move forward but let’s not rewrite history along the way

[Teflon]

Teflon

When A number of AA’s say someone could coach and had a huge influence on their career

I’ll take their word for it

I agree and they’ve all come out and said Lyon was and is the man they’d like to see back
IMO he ain’t now but that’s just my view

[B.M]

I was talking about Thomas

[Teflon]

I was talking about Thomas

Oh right I’ve not seen these AA come out publicly recently stating the club should get Thomas back - can you share the link?
I’ll dig up 5 for Lyon though??