Lyon

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Lying doesn't deserve 200 posts...uh oh.

Confuscious says, "Not a bad coach but not a very smart man."

[sunsaint]

Jack Steven would've been one of those witches hats. Should have played a few more games during that period.

Two of those witches hats decided to find legs and move
Lynch & cripps

[Ghost Like]

Cripps' umbilical cord had nearly snapped, he had to get home.

[freely]

I'm not saying I want Ross Lyon back BUT... to those that keep posting this fictitious nonsense surrounding his departure...

He was not supported by the Westaway administration and in fact they inserted a three month get out clause in his contract after he'd just coached the team to back to back Grand Finals.

They refused to back him in beyond the following season and were not on the same page.
At the last minute Nettlefold threw up a three year offer to cover their backs for all the duplicitous nonsense they had been throwing Ross Lyon's way.

Ross Lyon did not want Pelchen appointed and this was done by the Westaway administration to subvert and diminish Ross Lyon's authority.

Pelchen was another disaster.

Ross Lyon and the playing group also did not want the Seaford move and were 100% against it.

How did the Seaford move go?

When Fremantle came knocking with a long term contract and total support when all he was getting from Nettlefold was subterfuge he enacted the get out clause the Westaway administration had inserted.

The Westaway Footy First administration who took the club to Seaford, appointed Pelchen and Bains to oversee the playing list and appointed Watters and Richardson as senior coaches were an absolutely catastrophic disaster that has sent the club into a decade of oblivion.

Absolute goofballs and anyone who voted for Footy First should acknowledge their stupidity in voting these clowns in.

Ross Lyon was within a whisker of being a dual premiership coach.
I could give a thousand examples but for starters...
Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.
If the incompetent Demetriou administration had their shyte together and had this drug banned before the 2009 Grand Final, St.kilda would have won the 2009 Grand Final and Ross Lyon would be a St.kilda legend and premiership coach.

How would you speak of him then?

Perspective please!

Here, here, bang on point.

That's hear, hear mate.

Apparently there is no firm agreement on whether its 'here' or 'hear'. Some say both are fine.

The only ones who say both are fine are the ones who can't spell!

[damienc]

No. Not ever. Does not deserve a second chance, Ratts is the man we need.

[sunsaint]

seeing how a few people are talking about facts and how they dont lie about Lyons record over GT
I crunched the numbers

in 2000 the saints were a busted broken team finishing the bottom of the ladder with 2 wins and 11%
GT inherited this team and the numbers crunched like this


Thomas
Year Team Games Wins Losses Draws Win %
2001 St Kilda Saints 7 1 6 0 14.3
2002 St Kilda Saints 22 5 16 1 22.7
2003 St Kilda Saints 22 11 11 0 50.0
2004 St Kilda Saints 25 17 8 0 68.0
2005 St Kilda Saints 24 15 9 0 62.5
2006 St Kilda Saints 23 14 9 0 60.9
GT's St Kilda Saints 123 63 59 1 51.2

Lyon games wins loss draw
2007 St Kilda Saints 22 11 10 1 50.0
2008 St Kilda Saints 25 14 11 0 56.0
2009 St Kilda Saints 25 22 3 0 88.0
2010 St Kilda Saints 26 17 7 2 65.4
2011 St Kilda Saints 23 12 10 1 52.2
Ross St Kilda Saints 121 76 41 4 62.8

2012 Fremantle Dockers 24 15 9 0 62.5
2013 Fremantle Dockers 25 18 6 1 72.0
2014 Fremantle Dockers 24 16 8 0 66.7
2015 Fremantle Dockers 24 18 6 0 75.0
2016 Fremantle Dockers 22 4 18 0 18.2
2017 Fremantle Dockers 22 8 14 0 36.4
2018 Fremantle Dockers 22 8 14 0 36.4
2019 Fremantle Dockers 18 8 10 0 44.4
Ross Fremantle Dockers 181 95 85 1 52.5



So basically RLs time at the saints was the most beneficial for his career - since then it is just so so and clearly not much better than GT's
But two other conclusions can be drawn - Gt was definitely on an upward trend
But RL inherits a side on the rise with a good list, & once he hits the peak of a GF the team crashes

[Yorkeys]

RL has lost his enthusiasm. There is no joy in the man. He is a mercenary and the Freo fans are yelling out the obvious - he has no clothes. That must be wearing him down. Plus he despises the journos and they return the compliment so losing pressers must be excruciating for him. Any one can coach champions - actually they coach themselves/make coaches look good. What would you tell Pav, Fyfe, Sandi, Roo, Lenny, Chips, Goddard that they don't know instinctively. You have to make up a complicated game plan to sell the myth you add value. Shame that fails in big finals.

[Teflon]

seeing how a few people are talking about facts and how they dont lie about Lyons record over GT
I crunched the numbers

in 2000 the saints were a busted broken team finishing the bottom of the ladder with 2 wins and 11%
GT inherited this team and the numbers crunched like this


Thomas
Year Team Games Wins Losses Draws Win %
2001 St Kilda Saints 7 1 6 0 14.3
2002 St Kilda Saints 22 5 16 1 22.7
2003 St Kilda Saints 22 11 11 0 50.0
2004 St Kilda Saints 25 17 8 0 68.0
2005 St Kilda Saints 24 15 9 0 62.5
2006 St Kilda Saints 23 14 9 0 60.9
GT's St Kilda Saints 123 63 59 1 51.2

Lyon games wins loss draw
2007 St Kilda Saints 22 11 10 1 50.0
2008 St Kilda Saints 25 14 11 0 56.0
2009 St Kilda Saints 25 22 3 0 88.0
2010 St Kilda Saints 26 17 7 2 65.4
2011 St Kilda Saints 23 12 10 1 52.2
Ross St Kilda Saints 121 76 41 4 62.8

2012 Fremantle Dockers 24 15 9 0 62.5
2013 Fremantle Dockers 25 18 6 1 72.0
2014 Fremantle Dockers 24 16 8 0 66.7
2015 Fremantle Dockers 24 18 6 0 75.0
2016 Fremantle Dockers 22 4 18 0 18.2
2017 Fremantle Dockers 22 8 14 0 36.4
2018 Fremantle Dockers 22 8 14 0 36.4
2019 Fremantle Dockers 18 8 10 0 44.4
Ross Fremantle Dockers 181 95 85 1 52.5



So basically RLs time at the saints was the most beneficial for his career - since then it is just so so and clearly not much better than GT's
But two other conclusions can be drawn - Gt was definitely on an upward trend
But RL inherits a side on the rise with a good list, & once he hits the peak of a GF the team crashes

What a joke can’t believe this tripe still going
You left of GTs AFL coaching record AFTER he left Saints (cause he was on an upward trajectory right???? everyone could see what you’re seeing...).....except.......NO OTHER AFL CLUB wanted the bloke......now why is that FACT ignored so often by GT apologists?
Lyon walked away with $5m.....on the other hand.....
Let’s be clear - I don’t want him back and think he’s cooked but the amount of history revisionist BS in this place is laughable
The guy WAS at the top of his game 09/10 and the best we’ve had modern era

[freely]

GT would never be picked for another club because he is seen as a Saints man. He only really stepped up to coach as a kind of caretaker experiment because we were in the pooh and then stayed because his management-style quasi-coaching seemed to be working. He always acknowledged Lyon as a better coach and, to my recollection, was always supportive of him.

Re the main argument about who was better though - there can never be agreement. Lyon was better in terms of results, GT was better in terms of sheer joy and excitement going to the game. Teflon's unarguably right that Lyon took us closer to our second flag than any other coach but it's also true for most of us that the games were horrible to watch. We all want a flag (so we'll all put up with Lyon) but most seasons - even if we become a successful club! - we won't be getting one (so we'd rather watch games coached by GT).

The only thing we may be able to agree on is that we don't want either of them back!

[Joffa Burns]

GT would never be picked for another club because he is seen as a Saints man. He only really stepped up to coach as a kind of caretaker experiment because we were in the pooh and then stayed because his management-style quasi-coaching seemed to be working. He always acknowledged Lyon as a better coach and, to my recollection, was always supportive of him.

Re the main argument about who was better though - there can never be agreement. Lyon was better in terms of results, GT was better in terms of sheer joy and excitement going to the game. Teflon's unarguably right that Lyon took us closer to our second flag than any other coach but it's also true for most of us that the games were horrible to watch. We all want a flag (so we'll all put up with Lyon) but most seasons - even if we become a successful club! - we won't be getting one (so we'd rather watch games coached by GT).

The only thing we may be able to agree on is that we don't want either of them back!

Good post and agree with most of it, except the highlighted area.

If GT was respected in football circles he’d have received offers to coach.

He was chairman of selectors at North for a season before being sacked.

IMO GT would have taken a gig if any club was interested, but none came looking. Why is that?

Saints man thing is BS IMO, Hodge @ Lions, Mitchell @ WCE, they are club legends and left the family club.

[SaintPav]

Thomo is another coach who hasn’t gone on to get another senior AFL coaching gig.

From memory the choice was between Chris Connolly and Thomo.

[B.M]

GT has always stated he was not interested in coaching another club

[Crossy66]

I reckon lyon is done at freo,. They will be happy for him to go, as will he if he has another job to go to. Tipping longmuir to head back west and lyon to coach a vic club

[desertsaint]

would toughen up carlton. but im not sure they're mature enough for him to do anything past finals, then they would be chewed up and flat again. i certainly wouldnt want him his our group at their stage of deveopment, and certainly not with past history. North he'd make competitive but they dont have the personnel. Swans would be a better fit I reckon he may find there's no one that will see him as a good fit.

[Spinner]

Jack Steven would've been one of those witches hats. Should have played a few more games during that period.

Two of those witches hats decided to find legs and move
Lynch & cripps

What an uninformed post.

Cripps went home in spite of his opportunities, not because he didn’t get any.

Lynch left but 1 player over a 13 year coaching career is barely anything to write about.

[whiskers3614]

Jack Steven would've been one of those witches hats. Should have played a few more games during that period.

Two of those witches hats decided to find legs and move
Lynch & cripps

What an uninformed post.

Cripps went home in spite of his opportunities, not because he didn’t get any.

Lynch left but 1 player over a 13 year coaching career is barely anything to write about.

Guess you must have "forgotten" Luke Ball just as Lyon did in second half of '09 GF!

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Dockers utility to quit club after fractured relationship - http://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-31/doc ... lationship

Lyon is losing players. There is a reason their best player left last year.

[sunsaint]

Dockers utility to quit club after fractured relationship - http://m.afl.com.au/news/2019-07-31/doc ... lationship

Lyon is losing players. There is a reason their best player left last year.

yep similar things happened at the saints there was a revolving odd with assistants and staff
Freo are had more limitations on his scope when arrived over there but over time things relaxed they are now finding the have to curtail his influence again

[sunsaint]

What a joke can’t believe this tripe still going
You left of GTs AFL coaching record AFTER he left Saints (cause he was on an upward trajectory right???? everyone could see what you’re seeing...).....except.......NO OTHER AFL CLUB wanted the bloke......now why is that FACT ignored so often by GT apologists?
Lyon walked away with $5m.....on the other hand.....
Let’s be clear - I don’t want him back and think he’s cooked but the amount of history revisionist BS in this place is laughable
The guy WAS at the top of his game 09/10 and the best we’ve had modern era

why - if just because I can see the good and absolute dire need stkilda was in for some one like GT to take the reigns at the time does that make me an apologist
I also enjoyed the ride in 09 under RL - the sheer arrogance as a supporter of actually EXPECTING a win was a shock to a saint supporters system
But BOTH had their failings
and Rls big failing is that once he has hit that peak with a club it goes pear shape very quicky
Did notice you didnt comment on the stats

and big news flash for you - every single coach in the history of sport gets the sacked never to be picked up again

[Scollop]

Our most successful coach was obviously Jeans, and after that it doesn't matter..they're all also-rans.

Must remind GT of that while he’s watching his “10 game streak” video
Anyhow, stats tell us who in our modern era is our best coach
Haters don’t like to hear it but thems the facts

Lyon inherited a great team and was at our club for a very short time. He failed to get the chocolates with champion team that he inherited.

It's way too simple to define success of a coach based solely on h&a win/loss or even based on winning finals ratios (Tosser is heading down in both areas btw)

The only way that your boy Lyon was able to coach a team of winners was in large part due to the legacy left for him by GT. Bag GT all you want, but most neutral observers are aware of the blueprint and the foundations that were set before Rossco arrived

I loved the fact that we were building a great team and I loved the fact that GT helped mould young men into leaders. I hated the fact that Ross Lyon didn't give opportunity to our youth because I knew there's be a price to pay

Lyon might have fooled a few people and gained some disciples, but I hated the legacy that he left behind

Most neutral observers who watch the game and take off the “GT gave me meaning again” glasses realise we had been found out - which is why the guy couldn’t capitalise on a star studded list that had some very mature, top line players with a gun crop of youngsters coming through , thanks to the pathetic Watson years and failed Blight experiment.

You deal in your opinion as fact - it’s nonsense. FACTS are 1 coach at least got us to an opportunity to win a flag, multiple times....your boy failed to even get us there cause his 1 trick pony game plan/coaching style wasn’t up to it.
Tough to swallow as Lyons record is for many here FACTS are it shytes all over “GT”...

At least Lyon had all of his star studded line up to choose from when it was finals time. Lyon had a dream run with injuries and GT wasn't as lucky. Stan Alves wasn't as lucky.

The fact that Ross has failed at the big dance on several occasions is just a tiny little fact that can't be ignored. Your opinions don't stack up when it comes to silverware + state of the lists when each coach's time was up.

I was comparing the legacy that GT left and the foundations that were built under his watch as coach. Talk about a dream coaching job for anyone that stepped in as head coach in 2007.

Take a few seconds break from sticking your tongue up your heroes arsehole and check some other facts. Rodney Eade's teams were smashed in h&a by Lyon but Rocket got super close against Ross Lyon in finals...we arsed our way into some of our finals wins against Geelong and Footscray and over his whole career, Tosser has an ordinary record in finals.

GT legacy, foundations blah blah blah
GT couldn’t get it done - could not even get us into a flag winning chance when he RAN the entire club as Mike Sheehan reported....
You have to at least get there to win the bloody thing
More illogical baseless opinions .....

Nick Riewoldt is regularly on SEN with Gerard Whately on a Thursday

Podcast of todays show should be availble later in the day.

They spoke about his experience with coaches and naturally the discussion came up about Ross Lyon versus Grant Thomas. He talked about the strengths of GT and the strengths of Lyon with both coaches having a huge influence on his career. Nick concluded by saying that; "Just because you get to the Grand Final with one coach and you don't with another, doesn't necassarily make one coach better than the other"

So there it is, straight from the horses mouth. Sorry Teflon. You won't be able to claim that Roo supports your opinion.

[saynta]

Our most successful coach was obviously Jeans, and after that it doesn't matter..they're all also-rans.

Must remind GT of that while he’s watching his “10 game streak” video
Anyhow, stats tell us who in our modern era is our best coach
Haters don’t like to hear it but thems the facts

Lyon inherited a great team and was at our club for a very short time. He failed to get the chocolates with champion team that he inherited.

It's way too simple to define success of a coach based solely on h&a win/loss or even based on winning finals ratios (Tosser is heading down in both areas btw)

The only way that your boy Lyon was able to coach a team of winners was in large part due to the legacy left for him by GT. Bag GT all you want, but most neutral observers are aware of the blueprint and the foundations that were set before Rossco arrived

I loved the fact that we were building a great team and I loved the fact that GT helped mould young men into leaders. I hated the fact that Ross Lyon didn't give opportunity to our youth because I knew there's be a price to pay

Lyon might have fooled a few people and gained some disciples, but I hated the legacy that he left behind

Most neutral observers who watch the game and take off the “GT gave me meaning again” glasses realise we had been found out - which is why the guy couldn’t capitalise on a star studded list that had some very mature, top line players with a gun crop of youngsters coming through , thanks to the pathetic Watson years and failed Blight experiment.

You deal in your opinion as fact - it’s nonsense. FACTS are 1 coach at least got us to an opportunity to win a flag, multiple times....your boy failed to even get us there cause his 1 trick pony game plan/coaching style wasn’t up to it.
Tough to swallow as Lyons record is for many here FACTS are it shytes all over “GT”...

At least Lyon had all of his star studded line up to choose from when it was finals time. Lyon had a dream run with injuries and GT wasn't as lucky. Stan Alves wasn't as lucky.

The fact that Ross has failed at the big dance on several occasions is just a tiny little fact that can't be ignored. Your opinions don't stack up when it comes to silverware + state of the lists when each coach's time was up.

I was comparing the legacy that GT left and the foundations that were built under his watch as coach. Talk about a dream coaching job for anyone that stepped in as head coach in 2007.

Take a few seconds break from sticking your tongue up your heroes arsehole and check some other facts. Rodney Eade's teams were smashed in h&a by Lyon but Rocket got super close against Ross Lyon in finals...we arsed our way into some of our finals wins against Geelong and Footscray and over his whole career, Tosser has an ordinary record in finals.

GT legacy, foundations blah blah blah
GT couldn’t get it done - could not even get us into a flag winning chance when he RAN the entire club as Mike Sheehan reported....
You have to at least get there to win the bloody thing
More illogical baseless opinions .....

Nick Riewoldt is regularly on SEN with Gerard Whately on a Thursday

Podcast of todays show should be availble later in the day.

They spoke about his experience with coaches and naturally the discussion came up about Ross Lyon versus Grant Thomas. He talked about the strengths of GT and the strengths of Lyon with both coaches having a huge influence on his career. Nick concluded by saying that; "Just because you get to the Grand Final with one coach and you don't with another, doesn't necassarily make one coach better than the other"

So there it is, straight from the horses mouth. Sorry Teflon. You won't be able to claim that Roo supports your opinion.

Roo was on last night. Regular on a Wednesday along with Bob Murphy. Not on a Thursday. Thursdays are reserved for the two hawk guys.


OOPS. Sorry guys my bad. That's 360 not sen which I never listen to.

[bigred]

SEN mate.

He was on today with Whately.

He also, lightly disputed the horse s*** that Watters blurted. And gave a whack to the journo's doing the fkn thing.

[saynta]

SEN mate.

He was on today with Whately.

He also, lightly disputed the horse s*** that Watters blurted. And gave a whack to the journo's doing the fkn thing.

Good to hear. The little dwarf is a pretty ordinary bloke imho.

[Scollop]

If Freo decide to sack him after they fail to make finals, I think it would be karma for us to do to him what he did to us.

Promise him the role in September without signing contracts and informing him we need to just confirm with the board. Dripfeed news to journos. The media and player managers confirm that it's a done deal. We sign Brad Hill and Ed Langdon in the trade period. We renege on the deal to sign Lyin and officially appoint Ratten on a 3 year deal.

Lyon starts coaching suburban leagues...in junior soccer

[saynta]

If Freo decide to sack him after they fail to make finals, I think it would be karma for us to do to him what he did to us.

Promise him the role in September without signing contracts and informing him we need to just confirm with the board. Dripfeed news to journos. The media and player managers confirm that it's a done deal. We sign Brad Hill and Ed Langdon in the trade period. We renege on the deal to sign Lyin and officially appoint Ratten on a 3 year deal.

Lyon starts coaching suburban leagues...in junior soccer

Sounds good to me.

Would serve the lying prick right.