Watters

[saynta]

Never mentioned the WA guy he hired as an assistant without club approval or the full forward draft reject he also recruited from WA. Flog.

Ashley Prescott and Tom Lee ?

Bingo. Yep. You get the chocolates. Better memory than me.

[Saintmatt]

It was a typical tail St Kilda wagging the dog scenario that has hounded the club in its history and has resulted in years of no premierships.

I hear that a bit, but am not sure of the other examples that make it 'typical'?

Ummmm - I'll give you two. Lockett and Winmar being able to do pretty much anything and everything on their terms in the late 80's / early 90's ...

Didn't all star players do whatever they wanted at all clubs during the 80s and 90s though?

No. I can assure you that Hawthorn's teams of the mid/late 80's had some rope but a very short leash under Jeans and John Hook. By contrast, Lockett cracked the sh!ts with the Sheldon/Hudson duo because Hudson wanted them to be more professional and train more often. Bye bye Huddo.

[Saintmatt]

Never mentioned the WA guy he hired as an assistant without club approval or the full forward draft reject he also recruited from WA. Flog.

Ashley Prescott and Tom Lee ?

Bingo. Yep. You get the chocolates. Better memory than me.

Watters also conveniently forgets that he was expressly forbidden from speaking with the media and yet, he called SEN himself to get on the front foot to control his narrative. The Board sacked him basically because he went rogue.

The sad thing is that he lot of the things mentioned in that article I know to be true and I also have no doubt that Watters made a lot of right calls to try and change things - it's just clear that he went the wrong way about it. Quite frankly - I blame our sh!tshow of an administration and Board for it all. If ever a business school wants to create an MBA subject entitled "Mismanagement"- they should hire Nettlefold, Fraser, Westaway, Pelchen, Drain, Hutchison and Elshaugh as guest lecturers.

Clarkson wouldn't have been able to do much with what Lyon left behind. In hindsight - the debacle of the early 2010's has taken 7 or 8 years to be turn positively (if you have some hope that we're now moving in the right direction) - and that's during compromised drafts for GSW/GCS. In comparison - Carlton has taken 20 years to assemble a group of personnel on and off field that has given their supporters hope.

[To the top]

Way off the mark, StMatt.

I have put on here that the rebuild of the St Kilda List commenced from the Draft where we obtained the services of Billings, Dunstan and Acres - and that that rebuild, due to a number of events, some of which Watters refers to, commenced from nothing (noting the ages of Fisher, Roo and Montagna as our only 3 class players who remained from the GF years - the remainder being Lyon "Role" players at best hence our spiral down the drain to bottom).

The improvement in our List since that time has actually been satisfactory - noting the bad luck with McCartin (our only Number 1 Pick so fingers and everything else crossed - whilst there is life there is hope) and Goddard plus the absence so far of King.

[barks4eva]

Quite frankly - I blame our sh!tshow of an administration and Board for it all. If ever a business school wants to create an MBA subject entitled "Mismanagement"- they should hire Nettlefold, Fraser, Westaway, Pelchen, Drain, Hutchison and Elshaugh as guest lecturers.

THIS

The move to Seaford was a disaster from the get go.

I posted on here a decade ago this would set the club back by a decade and was roundly abused for it.
The reason I stopped posting on here because there were too many muppets blindly supporting whatever nonsense this club dishes up.
I was very pissed off when Footy First got elected by clueless members as I knew their idiotic Frankston agenda would be enacted.

In 2008 I spoke with a couple of board members one on one and warned them they were making a huge mistake. I was assured that it will be a great thing for the football club and to trust our vision yada yada....
I told them in person straight up it would all turn to shyte and to stop this nonsense while they still had a chance.

Who was right?

[Saintmatt]

Way off the mark, StMatt.

I have put on here that the rebuild of the St Kilda List commenced from the Draft where we obtained the services of Billings, Dunstan and Acres - and that that rebuild, due to a number of events, some of which Watters refers to, commenced from nothing (noting the ages of Fisher, Roo and Montagna as our only 3 class players who remained from the GF years - the remainder being Lyon "Role" players at best hence our spiral down the drain to bottom).

The improvement in our List since that time has actually been satisfactory - noting the bad luck with McCartin (our only Number 1 Pick so fingers and everything else crossed - whilst there is life there is hope) and Goddard plus the absence so far of King.

Which part am I "way off the mark" on? I stated the rebuild has taken 7 or 8 years. (i.e. 2011/12). My take on that was that was the period Lyon moved on and they tried to re-profile the list. I would agree that in a linear sense - the list improvement has been ok since then. Not stellar but ok. I, like many others, will still rue Cho's penchant for endlessly playing favourites when others could've been tried and tested (and discarded earlier if needs be) instead.

But - I'll take you to task re: your "Fisher, Roo and Montagna as our only 3 class players who remained from the GF years" comment. That's factually incorrect. Scott Watters was appointed in 2012; Cho in 2014.

Milne left in 2013
Koschitzke left in 2013
Blake left in 2013
Dal Santo left in 2013
Hayes left in 2014
Dempster left in 2017
Gilbert left in 2018

So - during their combined tenures, both coaches had access to some or all of the above GF era players (in addition to Roo, Joey and Chips). Yet - instead of trying to build the next gen team around them - they fluxxed and flumoxxed instead (and/or did their level best to put them off-side and/or retire them).

[Premium89]

Haven't finished the whole podcast yet, but I'm glad we got rid of him - as others have noted, it was always everyone else's fault. Also, The interviewers did not press him at all on things that he may have got sacked for!
Doubtless the club and administration had a lot of issues as well, especially the move to Seaford!

I guess one thing going for him is that we haven't heard much from him since the sacking, compared to GT etc

Couple of funny things:
- as a player, he really wanted to leave West Coast to come to the saints.
- he was part of the "plugger the pig" fiasco.

[To the top]

There were a raft of issues with Moorrabbin back in the day, including particularly with the local Council (and before that the Social Club/Football Club impasse which bankrupted the Football Club and would have seen its disappearance but for Lindsay Fox)

So what happened happened

Hopefully there are wiser heads this time around - on all sides.

You can correctly say that what happened should never have happened but what was the option at that time?

[To the top]

Your reference to Kenny and Peter - and Tony.

[Premium89]

PS everybody...

“What poor culture?”: Dal Santo responds to claims made by former Saints coach
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/07/31/ ... nts-coach/

“There are always two sides to every story,” Dal Santo told SEN Afternoons.

“I’d like to think that Scott honestly sees it the way that he spoke about it in the podcast, and that he didn’t feel like he had to change the events and the conversations that were had behind closed doors.”

“I was there for those two years and I saw a lot of things completely differently to what I heard on that podcast,” he said.

“Since I got there in 2001 we had played finals, when he got there, seven of eight years. I thought the culture was ok.

“We had, in my opinion, some of the greatest leaders of men on-field in (Nick) Riewoldt and (Lenny) Hayes in particular. We had a leadership group that was very strong, experienced, firm, and understanding at times.

“I didn’t see this poor culture; I wasn’t a part of a poor culture when Scott got there in 2012 off the back of Ross Lyon.

“What poor culture?”

[barneyboyz]

There were a raft of issues with Moorrabbin back in the day, including particularly with the local Council (and before that the Social Club/Football Club impasse which bankrupted the Football Club and would have seen its disappearance but for Lindsay Fox)

So what happened happened

Hopefully there are wiser heads this time around - on all sides.

You can correctly say that what happened should never have happened but what was the option at that time?

You just have to hope and prey that from both a business perspective and football, the current board have some real nous...or we are stuffed

I find myself shaking my head

[Premium89]

So - during their combined tenures, both coaches had access to some or all of the above GF era players (in addition to Roo, Joey and Chips). Yet - instead of trying to build the next gen team around them - they fluxxed and flumoxxed instead (and/or did their level best to put them off-side and/or retire them).

I demand a full report on said Fluxxing!

[saynta]

Much prefer Dal's version of events rather than those of that shitty little dwarf, Watters,

[Saintmatt]

So - during their combined tenures, both coaches had access to some or all of the above GF era players (in addition to Roo, Joey and Chips). Yet - instead of trying to build the next gen team around them - they fluxxed and flumoxxed instead (and/or did their level best to put them off-side and/or retire them).

I demand a full report on said Fluxxing!

Great question; well asked!

State of Flux - a state of uncertainty about what should be done (usually following some important event) preceding the establishment of a new direction of action.

[Special]

The surrender monkey HUN journos are piss weak in their interviewing.

Pathetic questions to the pathetic dwarf.

Anyway, bring on Richo. I bet he’ll say nothing like he did for 6 years.

[derby Street]

Never mentioned the WA guy he hired as an assistant without club approval or the full forward draft reject he also recruited from WA. Flog.

Nor that he went to an assistant coaches house on Christmas morning and dragged him away from his wife and kids. No wonder he lost the support of the coaching group.

[Wayne42]

He walked into a wreck and I wouldn't have taken on the job if I was him. I have spoken to dads of a couple of young players in the past who played under him, and the young guys liked him, but apparently some of the older players egos were so huge and were not prepared to be told how to do anything after failing in the finals campaigns under Lyon, and continually sooked to the directors and whoever would listen, so that was pretty much the end of Watters. It was a typical tail St Kilda wagging the dog scenario that has hounded the club in its history and has resulted in years of no premierships.

I believe Scott Watters was very poorly treated. I never heard him undermining his players, but to have him denigrated and humiliated is a stain on our history. There are opportunities for players to voice an opinion, but it needs to be given with respect. The Board failed Watters by not upholding the basic standards a coach should expect. This is not a comment on his abilities as a coach, although he clearly has support outside our club.

Well said, this podcast has changed my opinion on Scott Watters, he tried to change the Saints so they sacked him, mediocrity is inherent in the club's culture and won't be changed for anyone.

[sunsaint]

these discussions are always interesting because people line up and fight their preconceptions of who is good who was bad
eg over in the RL vs Gt debate thread
What I find interesting, no one is disputing Watters portrayal of the events at the time - more that they just dont like him
Watters made two mistakes during his time at the club - he made the comment asking "...exactly what have the players actually achieved?" and the saints are in a rebuild comment quickly withdrawn after being rebuked by the club
So media mouth NDS, you talk about culture and how it was perfectly fine at the saints because of what they had achieved in 09-10 - the point is you and the inner circle mates came last in a two horse race. And there was a culture in that inner circle bubble you can take d!ck pics of your mate in the seclusion of your motel room - really who does that with your mate ? Girlfriend I can can get but male mate??? And that wasnt even the worst of it

But back to the point, in the history of the club we have only rectified the GF tally once - that is the point Watters made and that is the point the players didnt like.
From that moment on Watters was doomed in the eyes of the playing list

AS far as his appointment is concerned you can see the clubs point of view getting someone from a club that had actually won the thing and also his past record in WA but that too soured quickly

[cwrcyn]

Twatters

[Cordz2]

He walked into a wreck and I wouldn't have taken on the job if I was him. I have spoken to dads of a couple of young players in the past who played under him, and the young guys liked him, but apparently some of the older players egos were so huge and were not prepared to be told how to do anything after failing in the finals campaigns under Lyon, and continually sooked to the directors and whoever would listen, so that was pretty much the end of Watters. It was a typical tail St Kilda wagging the dog scenario that has hounded the club in its history and has resulted in years of no premierships.

The problem has always been our board. Full of St Kilda people who fall in love with our best players and put them above what’s best for a powerful club. Like us, all they want to see us one more flag and that type of desperation shows when they fail to think of next year when we get close. All our chips were in one basket for 09 and 10. I don’t blame Lyon. I blame the St Kilda board which has been inept and weak for a long time. Full of either egomaniacs like Thomas and Butterss or bureaucrats with no guts or passion like Westaway and Summers. These people had been at the top in their own business for so long they knew it in their sleep. They took the same approach to running st Kilda- they were asleep at the wheel. The board appointed Archie ‘seaford’ Fraser as CEO. The board appointed Ross ‘there is no tomorrow’ Lyon. We need to seriously find a more effective way to appoint these people. Maybe it’s the club’s constitution that needs to change.

[evertonfc]

Fair dinkum, did anyone listen?

Or did you just hit the outrage button as quick as you could?!

I’m listening to it now, picking up a lot of truisms about some of the selfish behaviours of some...which, to be honest, many of us were unhappy about at the time.

Not limited to, but including:
The excessive partying, the lack of focus after 2010, the over-payment of players who had mentally checked-out, the half-arsed training and the amazing disrespect shown to supporters by a glut of indulgent players, staff and executives.

Christ, Watters might be disappointed about how it ended, and I don’t like some of his decisions (greenvesting Kosi, etc) but we could sure pick up a few insights in the cool light of day.

This was a time when the club had set its course to become a basketcase. He might not have been the best coach - or even the right coach - but he wasn’t a total muppet.

[Sainternist]

Looks like Papa Smurf played the victim and gone whining to someone and divulged a bunch of things about the club over a podcast. The nerve of the little prick. He is some piece of work, isn’t he?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/sacked ... 493f3b3feb

[Cordz2]

Fair dinkum, did anyone listen?

Or did you just hit the outrage button as quick as you could?!

I’m listening to it now, picking up a lot of truisms about some of the selfish behaviours of some...which, to be honest, many of us were unhappy about at the time.

Not limited to, but including:
The excessive partying, the lack of focus after 2010, the over-payment of players who had mentally checked-out, the half-arsed training and the amazing disrespect shown to supporters by a glut of indulgent players, staff and executives.

Christ, Watters might be disappointed about how it ended, and I don’t like some of his decisions (greenvesting Kosi, etc) but we could sure pick up a few insights in the cool light of day.

This was a time when the club had set its course to become a basketcase. He might not have been the best coach - or even the right coach - but he wasn’t a total muppet.

I think if you actually read the previous posts you'll find plenty who agree with you.

[satchmo]

Fair dinkum, did anyone listen?

Or did you just hit the outrage button as quick as you could?!

I’m listening to it now, picking up a lot of truisms about some of the selfish behaviours of some...which, to be honest, many of us were unhappy about at the time.

Not limited to, but including:
The excessive partying, the lack of focus after 2010, the over-payment of players who had mentally checked-out, the half-arsed training and the amazing disrespect shown to supporters by a glut of indulgent players, staff and executives.

Christ, Watters might be disappointed about how it ended, and I don’t like some of his decisions (greenvesting Kosi, etc) but we could sure pick up a few insights in the cool light of day.

This was a time when the club had set its course to become a basketcase. He might not have been the best coach - or even the right coach - but he wasn’t a total muppet.

Yeah, nah, he was a total muppet. Doesn't mean that everything he said was untrue. But he was certainly incapable of making a difference. Good on him for trying to paint himself in the best light. Did he mention the fact that we didn't win the 2010 flag? And he had to deal with all those players that didn't win the 2010 flag, which must have come as a surprise to him, but at least he let them know that they didn't win the 2010 flag.
Of course it's the club's fault for hiring him, but don't forget that you support a team that didn't win the 2010 flag.

[oldie60]

I'll take his so called bad culture given we had a crack at a few flags.