Lyon

[B.M]

The fact a frdp 21yo Dave Armitage wasn’t getting games
Even though he was dominating VFL

Future Captain and RU b&f J.Geary also missed out.

And a future 4 time b&f winner 19yo Jack Steven wasn’t getting games

ridiculous

Armo collected 3 Brownlow Votes in about R19, 2009 the following week he amassed 13 tackles, two weeks later he was dropped!

Steven also debuted in the R19 game, 14 disposals and a goal, dropped. What’s worse, in 2010 20yo Steven played 8 games, kicked 10 goals avg 12 disposal, 4 tackles. Was he playing in the finals side? No!
Whilst Collingwood had 2 younger players in Blair and Sidebottom.

[bigcarl]

Lyin would probably point out the difficulty of breaking into a side that has won 19-straight.

But on the whole, yes, his record in developing young players was poor

[sunsaint]

Not a reason to question a guys coaching ability when the FACTS tell you otherwise.

yeah he had a great H/A record
yeah he brought the game plan from Sydney that was zone off, lock down, defensive you only have to win by a point mindset, did I mention boring as b@t s***
yeah the elder inner sanctum of players will hold him in high regard - less so the younger ones that deservedly wanted a crack

But the argument about who was a better coach is not fact it just comes down to personal opinion
I will maintain RL was a great midweek coach his preparation of the players was brilliant but his game day was less so
There was a formulae, in the formulae we trust, you stick to the formulae - period
So I couldnt care if RL had a record of 99%
The number 1 goal of the AFL is to win just one game - that is ALL that matters
The GF is not just another game of football it is the only game of football that really matters
I have seen 4 losing GFs and I tell you and everyone else here would agree it is worse than a home and away game loss

So you may well consider a H/A record to be the bees knees - but I would rather fall short of the final game thanks
It still gives you something to hope for
Do you want to talk about how the players lost hope in the subsequent years after those two attempts?

[B.M]

They did lose two of the last three leading into the finals, and great sides always look at how to get better, the is no better way to improve, than by bringing in young talented players.

Armo & Steven had showed in R19 that they were up to the level, particularly Armo (Steven was more a 2010 issue)

Luke Ball playing 60% of the game for 23 touches on a wet day, which suited him down to the ground, was ridiculous and imo cost us the game.

2009 line up should have been
B: Blake - Dawson - Baker
HB: Gilbert - Fisher - Clarke
C: Ray - Hayes - Gram
HF: Goddard - Reiwoldt- Montagna
F: Milne - Koschitzke- Schnieder
Foll: Gardiner - Dal Santo - Jones
Int: Ball - Armitage - King - McQualter
Emerg: Geary - Dempster - Eddy

[Joffa Burns]

They did lose two of the last three leading into the finals, and great sides always look at how to get better, the is no better way to improve, than by bringing in young talented players.

Armo & Steven had showed in R19 that they were up to the level, particularly Armo (Steven was more a 2010 issue)

Luke Ball playing 60% of the game for 23 touches on a wet day, which suited him down to the ground, was ridiculous and imo cost us the game.

2009 line up should have been
B: Blake - Dawson - Baker
HB: Gilbert - Fisher - Clarke
C: Ray - Hayes - Gram
HF: Goddard - Reiwoldt- Montagna
F: Milne - Koschitzke- Schnieder
Foll: Gardiner - Dal Santo - Jones
Int: Ball - Armitage - King - McQualter
Emerg: Geary - Dempster - Eddy

Look out B.M, you chose Dawson over Max at FB.
The fires from hell are coming down on you.

Don't worry that Max was cooked, he could have beaten that (#$#$#&&&&#$#$) Dawson blah blah blah

Agree Armo should have been played in 2009 & 2010 and Steven in 2010.
I recall Steven was very good in Tassie against Hawthorn and could have been given an extended run at the time.

[bigcarl]

Easy in retrospect Marto. Did you lobby for this side at the time?

Look i’m no fan of Lyon’s, but I think it’s fair that he backed the guys who had done the job for him that season. Particularly that season.

[Bowey Boy]

Funny how loyal he seems to Freo and could not get out of St Kilda quick enough.

[Rubyjo]

Board take over.. Roo, Warne, dal, Bana, monty .. Lyon as coach.. Ratts assistant coach bring in Harvey and lenny. Not that Bana would bring much.. Hollywood iq is a bit overrated.

[Rubyjo]

Funny how loyal he seems to Freo and could not get out of St Kilda quick enough.

Think he said the same things whilst at the saints..

[B.M]

I’ll think you’ll find BC that I was very outspoken in 2009/2010 on SS and picked that side leading into the GF from memory (maybe Dal at HF and Goddard as a mid)
I definitely had Armo in, and I certainly wouldn’t have had Luke Ball sitting on the bench for over 20 minutes in the last Q

I was very much the outcast on SS for my thoughts on a great many things at the time, getting absolutely abused by 90% of posters for giving my strong opinions
Including;
Questioning recruiting as it happened - Brad Howard, and others
Being disgusted in us leaving Tas (I’ll admit I am from there)
Against the recruitment of a pisshead with worse character traits
The non-recruitment of B Cousins
The lack of development of the Ross Lyon regime - Armo, Jack, Rhys, Lynch
The whole 2009 trade period - out: Ball, Maguire, Clarke in: Lovett, W Johnson, J Smith
The recruitment of cast off hacks - Polo, C Gardiner, A Pattison, R Gamble

Funnily enough, the move to Seaford didn’t bother me.
The NZ game didn’t either

[Josh Battle]

Funny how loyal he seems to Freo and could not get out of St Kilda quick enough.

Think he said the same things whilst at the saints..

He is definitely leading the way...which btw is solid evidence that he is a leader...but I'm not sure the Fremantle football club would be happy with how a growing number of players over the last few years want out of the club and are following Rossco's lead in the loyalty department

[saintbob]

Surely the rumours are just that, if that idiot comes back I’m done

[B.M]

Story is that Lyon was in need of financial security in 2012 after a few dodgy investments. He went to the StK board in March, asking for a new 4 year deal, StK delayed talks a number of times to see how the season panned out. When Lyon found out Freo were interested, he couldn’t sign quick enough, partly because he was pissed at StK for not getting the deal done, but mostly because he needed the cash. The 1M per season was also way more that StK were going to pay anyway.

[desertsaint]

crapping in the wind over yet another made up story by a footy journo with nothing to say that week. invent something, ask someone somehow related what if, next thing others jump on board. legs grow on a puff of wind. it's all bulldust.

[bigcarl]

I’ll think you’ll find BC that I was very outspoken in 2009/2010 on SS and picked that side leading into the GF from memory (maybe Dal at HF and Goddard as a mid)
I definitely had Armo in, and I certainly wouldn’t have had Luke Ball sitting on the bench for over 20 minutes in the last Q

I was very much the outcast on SS for my thoughts on a great many things at the time, getting absolutely abused by 90% of posters for giving my strong opinions
Including;
Questioning recruiting as it happened - Brad Howard, and others
Being disgusted in us leaving Tas (I’ll admit I am from there)
Against the recruitment of a pisshead with worse character traits
The non-recruitment of B Cousins
The lack of development of the Ross Lyon regime - Armo, Jack, Rhys, Lynch
The whole 2009 trade period - out: Ball, Maguire, Clarke in: Lovett, W Johnson, J Smith
The recruitment of cast off hacks - Polo, C Gardiner, A Pattison, R Gamble

Funnily enough, the move to Seaford didn’t bother me.
The NZ game didn’t either

I shall start going through your posts in that period.

Do you recall your user name at the time as you have had many?

Nah, just kidding, I’ll take your word for it. You are, indeed, a true football visionary.

[mbogo]

This is just an annoying thread - there is no reason at all that people should re-open these wounds, except for masochistic re-livings!
There is such a strong argument that Lyon was easily our best coach in the past 50 years, that we should just leave him be! There is equally zero reason to bring him back, he wont do it again!
As for the GT argument - OMG - Narcissistic personality disorder personified - there is no evidence he actually did much other than let them "go" and develop their skills. When pressure was applied - we seemed to cave and it was always cut and run and whoever got to the line first. Might be exciting, but no strategy or plan B! He also showed bias towards some and baited the AFL!
What we need is a modern coach to develop a modern game plan - not delve back into the deep of yesteryear. It could be an assistant - or Ratts - that's my preference!

[saynta]

Well, that's a f****** relief. We just escaped a bullet. More likely a cannon ball.

Lyon is not interested in leaving Freo and wants to see out his contract. Says he is commented to Freo and committed to Nathan.

[Teflon]

Not a reason to question a guys coaching ability when the FACTS tell you otherwise.

yeah he had a great H/A record
yeah he brought the game plan from Sydney that was zone off, lock down, defensive you only have to win by a point mindset, did I mention boring as b@t s***
yeah the elder inner sanctum of players will hold him in high regard - less so the younger ones that deservedly wanted a crack

But the argument about who was a better coach is not fact it just comes down to personal opinion
I will maintain RL was a great midweek coach his preparation of the players was brilliant but his game day was less so
There was a formulae, in the formulae we trust, you stick to the formulae - period
So I couldnt care if RL had a record of 99%
The number 1 goal of the AFL is to win just one game - that is ALL that matters
The GF is not just another game of football it is the only game of football that really matters
I have seen 4 losing GFs and I tell you and everyone else here would agree it is worse than a home and away game loss

So you may well consider a H/A record to be the bees knees - but I would rather fall short of the final game thanks
It still gives you something to hope for
Do you want to talk about how the players lost hope in the subsequent years after those two attempts?

The first rule of an AFL coach is to get your team into a position to win a GF.
You can only do that if you actually make it to one. Lyon has made 4 and if it weren’t for some ordinary kicking for goal and poor execution in 09 he’d be a Premiership in a season he was undoubtedly the best coach.
Are you suggesting Lyons coaching GF day didn’t get us to a position where we could win it in either 09 or 10??...utter rubbish.
FACTS are Thomas failed to do that every time with a superior all round list to Lyon IMO

The inner sanctum of players - champions - like him because they know he was a top coach. FACTS are they don’t talk of Thomas in the same vein.

I don’t need a lecture on GF losses to HA losses.....that’s pretty obvious and of course after being up so long players are going to be left flat after 2010, facts are we were cooked.

[Teflon]

This is just an annoying thread - there is no reason at all that people should re-open these wounds, except for masochistic re-livings!
There is such a strong argument that Lyon was easily our best coach in the past 50 years, that we should just leave him be! There is equally zero reason to bring him back, he wont do it again!
As for the GT argument - OMG - Narcissistic personality disorder personified - there is no evidence he actually did much other than let them "go" and develop their skills. When pressure was applied - we seemed to cave and it was always cut and run and whoever got to the line first. Might be exciting, but no strategy or plan B! He also showed bias towards some and baited the AFL!
What we need is a modern coach to develop a modern game plan - not delve back into the deep of yesteryear. It could be an assistant - or Ratts - that's my preference!

A super post couldn’t agree more

[Teflon]

How’s Lyon being going recently?

He had a ridiculous amount of talent at his disposal whilst at StK
The number of players that had been AA or were AA or future AA was staggering.
Compare that to this team over the last two seasons
1 - Dan Hannebury
And he’s played two games

Who is actually comparing Lyons coaching record in 09/10 (our most successful coach last 50 years) with today’s shell of a team?
Just bizarre.
I’d argue Thomas also had ridiculous talent at his disposal and as 1 previous assistant coach of his mentioned to me.....mismanaged that talent ?? But what would this guy as an ex AFl champion know right?

[BarryGrogan]

The first rule of an AFL coach is to get your team into a position to win a GF.

I don't actually agree with that.


The first rule of an AFL coach, is to get the most out of the players at your disposal.

Beyond that, no coach ever has the stated goal of making the GF.

Their goal is to win the flag.

Failing at the last hurdle, or the second last hurdle is still failure. It's unfortunate, but in AFL footy we don't celebrate coming 2nd - we call it failing to win.

Coming 2nd or coming 4th is the same thing.





Playing a style that can't win GFs is no different to playing a style that can't win Prelims.

Both are failed styles.

[BarryGrogan]

Dude says this....

This is just an annoying thread - there is no reason at all that people should re-open these wounds, except for masochistic re-livings!

....then goes on to this....

There is such a strong argument that Lyon was easily our best coach in the past 50 years, that we should just leave him be! There is equally zero reason to bring him back, he wont do it again!
As for the GT argument - OMG - Narcissistic personality disorder personified - there is no evidence he actually did much other than let them "go" and develop their skills. When pressure was applied - we seemed to cave and it was always cut and run and whoever got to the line first. Might be exciting, but no strategy or plan B! He also showed bias towards some and baited the AFL!
What we need is a modern coach to develop a modern game plan - not delve back into the deep of yesteryear. It could be an assistant - or Ratts - that's my preference!

[spert]

Our most successful coach was obviously Jeans, and after that it doesn't matter..they're all also-rans.

[SaintPav]

Story is that Lyon was in need of financial security in 2012 after a few dodgy investments. He went to the StK board in March, asking for a new 4 year deal, StK delayed talks a number of times to see how the season panned out. When Lyon found out Freo were interested, he couldn’t sign quick enough, partly because he was pissed at StK for not getting the deal done, but mostly because he needed the cash. The 1M per season was also way more that StK were going to pay anyway.

This is not exactly correct. Lyon left immediately after the 2011 Elimination Final. From my understanding, both parties agreed to hold off talks. I heard it from a Board member during the 2011 season which I wrote about on here at the time.

In my opinion, the club stuffed up but I think his time was done. Watters was obviously a big mistake.

[saynta]

From today's herald sun.com

"ROBBO: SORRY ROSSY, WE'VE HEARD THIS BEFORE
Michael Randall

-MARK ROBINSON

“Quite simply, I am contracted … and I'm fully committed to fulfilling that contract.”

That was Ross Lyon speaking.

No, not on Wednesday.

That was Ross Lyon speaking in mid-2011, four months before he left St Kilda for Fremantle in a move that rankled everyone involved with the Saints.

In September, 2011, Lyon said: “I am as committed now as I have ever been to my role (at St Kilda).”

He walked away from the Saints a week later.

Clearly, being fully committed and fulfilling a contract are separate entities."


As I have stated many times, a liar and a pretty ordinary human being.