Lyon

[Teflon]

I just read Caroline’s comments to me that’s all N Riewoldt pushing this and I doubt he’ll get the support
Roo loves Lyon, most the players did, no doubt he’d be his choice but I’m not sure that takes us forward

[sunsaint]

.
Ross Lyon was within a whisker of being a dual premiership coach.
I could give a thousand examples but for starters...
Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.
If the incompetent Demetriou administration had their shyte together and had this drug banned before the 2009 Grand Final, St.kilda would have won the 2009 Grand Final and Ross Lyon would be a St.kilda legend and premiership coach.

How would you speak of him then?

Perspective please!

Respect normally barks4eva but this time your prejudice colours your opinion
ASADA set the banned drug list not the AFL ceo
And as for home and away records and getting within a whisker of a GF it comes down to this
The AFL league setup is geared to one thing and one thing only winning ONE game of footy in a year
RL has had four shots at a GF and failed in all of them
His last two attempts failed spectacularly
RL is a great WEEK day coach his team preparation is very good but he is a poor game day coach.
No plan b, a dour game style, and his dogged adherence to the formula was his downfall because against the games best he was easy to coach against.

So a big no for me and that HighettMan is an adults POV

[BarryGrogan]

Caroline Wilson reckons some directors at the Saints are serious about getting Ross Lyon back.

Seemed to think it is actually a possibility.

Is this in an article?

Not that I'm aware of. She spoke about it on Footy Classified.


Interestingly, they talked about it on SEN today too. The comment was "the rumours just won't go away".

[BarryGrogan]

I just read Caroline’s comments to me that’s all N Riewoldt pushing this and I doubt he’ll get the support
Roo loves Lyon, most the players did, no doubt he’d be his choice but I’m not sure that takes us forward

From memory, she specifically said Directors, when asked who at the club was pushing for Lyon.

[skeptic]

.
Ross Lyon was within a whisker of being a dual premiership coach.
I could give a thousand examples but for starters...
Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.
If the incompetent Demetriou administration had their shyte together and had this drug banned before the 2009 Grand Final, St.kilda would have won the 2009 Grand Final and Ross Lyon would be a St.kilda legend and premiership coach.

How would you speak of him then?

Perspective please!

Respect normally barks4eva but this time your prejudice colours your opinion
ASADA set the banned drug list not the AFL ceo
And as for home and away records and getting within a whisker of a GF it comes down to this
The AFL league setup is geared to one thing and one thing only winning ONE game of footy in a year
RL has had four shots at a GF and failed in all of them
His last two attempts failed spectacularly
RL is a great WEEK day coach his team preparation is very good but he is a poor game day coach.
No plan b, a dour game style, and his dogged adherence to the formula was his downfall because against the games best he was easy to coach against.

So a big no for me and that HighettMan is an adults POV

Gotta add that it was also RL’s choice not to put the hard tag on Chapman who absolutely cut us to ribbons both on GF day and earlier in the season at the Dome.

We put all our efforts into curtailing Ablett and an underdone Johnson but blind Freddy could see that Chappy was the one we should have been afraid of.

Sad story... happiest part of my 09 GF experience was when Chappy went off the ground with his hammy and the radio said he was doe even for the day (2nd or 3rd quarter) - at that point I thought we were a sure thing.
Then he came back and won the norm smith

[skeptic]

There's a lot better coaches around than Lyon, he couldn't get a very capable and disciplined team to win a premiership, so not really much chop in the end. Ratten should be signed up right now.

It was arguably the best list in the club’s history. Assembled and developed by someone else, I might add.

Disagree totally on the list comment, GT had the best list assembled in my time watching the Saints by a country mile.

Somehow, posters on this site seems to think or perpetuate GT made it to 2 x Prelims with a bunch of 18 & 19 YO kids (not suggesting you are one of them), when this was not the case at all. GT had a far superior list than Lyon inherited.

By the time Lyon took over most media and many, many fans including lots on this site thought it was rebuild time not an opportunity to have a tilt at a flag.

We can agree to disagree on that Joffa.

the fact is the core of that team - Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal, BJ, Kosi, Milne, Blake and others - was in its prime under Lyin’

2004/5 is well know as the best list we ever had.
It was the best list in the game and Thommo blew it...

I think that's misleading.


2004 was a raw list. Not rwady. Which showed.

2005 was the one. The list was ready, the belief was there...but injuries were the difference.

Did GT 'blow it'? Or did the losses of 5-6 startin 18 players from the Prelim prove a bridge too far?

I believe the latter.

2006 our injuries were worse.


So having the best list, is virtually irrelevant if a big chunk of that list doesn't play.


A poster just cut Lyon some slack cause he's missing 3 gun players - our 2005/06 teams missed more than 3 and made the top 4.


But anyway, who gives a s***.

One problem Barry......GT didn’t believe in investing anything into “Training services Department” under GTs 1980s corporate model we were to busy blowing 300k on SA trips to “round out young men” problem was.....when it mattered in 05 prelim we couldn’t get them on the park.

I don’t typically agree with your GT stance but this particular point has always been the most pertinent when it comes to criticising him over that era. I actually don’t mind the trips as I think we saw value from that but IMO his ultimate downfall came from not trusting enough people to do their jobs correctly... and that killed us in that era.

I think he could have been the greatest ever if he just recognised what he wasn’t good at, took a step back and got the best people for the jobs to compensate and a gradual back seat.

He certainly had reasonable skill sets in terms of building culture and creating the right atmosphere

[sunsaint]

I don’t typically agree with your GT stance but this particular point has always been the most pertinent when it comes to criticising him over that era. I actually don’t mind the trips as I think we saw value from that but IMO his ultimate downfall came from not trusting enough people to do their jobs correctly... and that killed us in that era.

I think he could have been the greatest ever if he just recognised what he wasn’t good at, took a step back and got the best people for the jobs to compensate and a gradual back seat.

He certainly had reasonable skill sets in terms of building culture and creating the right atmosphere

I know this won't change opinions as most people take from history the bits that sit well with them
But there was one very simple fact that governed many reasons for decisions in that era - the club was broke
We couldn't afford many of the extra support staff other than the required
But I distinctly remember at the time the club utilizing the monash uni sports medicine department to help with hamstring issues
And as a few seem to know the inner workings of the club at the time perhaps they can double check with roo for confirmation
The counter argument will be that if we did spend the non existent cash we wouldn't have had the problems at all
But regardless of club spend sometimes these issues happen at a club point in case ithe same issues under Lyon that led to "meat and potatoes" comment by Lyon and the sports trainer changed
Yep at the time we had one of the lowest spends on support staff, the club was forced into the financial situation but at least their thinking was ground breaking and outside t h e norm
Maybe the preseason "jaunts" helped the players more than a full time psychologist
It just depends on how you want to look at the financial situation the club was in at the time

[satchmo]

Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.

It wasn't twelve months...

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 3c05a625c0

[takeaway]

What should have happened .....

Blight coach 2001-2006, Lyon 2007-2011 (or longer). Result - 2, probably 3 flags with the lists available.

Anyway, I think RL will want an extension of his Freo contract before next year or he won't coach out his final year. I'd be happy with him back at Saints. Contract kerfuffle last time was a result of fault on both sides, which ensures it won't happen again.
Brad Scott, I believe he is a good coach, did well with only a standard list at NM, so no problems if he is appointed.
Ratten, the man in the box seat, and if the Saints play the next 5 games to the standard of last week, it would be hard for the Club not to appoint him.

Preference amongst experienced coaches -

1. Ratten
2. Lyon
3. Scott

Assistants? No idea. Would love Harvey or Hayes back, but can they coach as head honcho?

[bigred]

I reckon Blighty would have found it pretty hard to win a flag from the Golf course.

[takeaway]

I reckon Blighty would have found it pretty hard to win a flag from the Golf course.

Could have won one from Queensland, coaching by videolink.

[Teflon]

I don’t typically agree with your GT stance but this particular point has always been the most pertinent when it comes to criticising him over that era. I actually don’t mind the trips as I think we saw value from that but IMO his ultimate downfall came from not trusting enough people to do their jobs correctly... and that killed us in that era.

I think he could have been the greatest ever if he just recognised what he wasn’t good at, took a step back and got the best people for the jobs to compensate and a gradual back seat.

He certainly had reasonable skill sets in terms of building culture and creating the right atmosphere

I know this won't change opinions as most people take from history the bits that sit well with them
But there was one very simple fact that governed many reasons for decisions in that era - the club was broke
We couldn't afford many of the extra support staff other than the required
But I distinctly remember at the time the club utilizing the monash uni sports medicine department to help with hamstring issues
And as a few seem to know the inner workings of the club at the time perhaps they can double check with roo for confirmation
The counter argument will be that if we did spend the non existent cash we wouldn't have had the problems at all
But regardless of club spend sometimes these issues happen at a club point in case ithe same issues under Lyon that led to "meat and potatoes" comment by Lyon and the sports trainer changed
Yep at the time we had one of the lowest spends on support staff, the club was forced into the financial situation but at least their thinking was ground breaking and outside t h e norm
Maybe the preseason "jaunts" helped the players more than a full time psychologist
It just depends on how you want to look at the financial situation the club was in at the time

I think your response perhaps missed the most important point skeptic made - how do you change someone who ultimately feels they have to control everything at the club??? Again, universally acknowledged by all except those suggesting Thomas was a great coach, is the notion that he ran the place - full stop.

I’ve spoken to people at the club heavily involved in the footy dept at the time they’ve confirmed BUT STILL some argue that can’t be true.....just amazing, anyhow...
BTW to argue Lyon is a poor match day coach is farcical
19-0 2009
20-2 3rd highest winnin season all time
64% win rate
4 GF appearances....

Someone please post GTs record at Saints ANDafter he left ....oh wait.....NOT 1 AFL club knocked on his door.....why???

Many need to see the truth
Do I want Lyon back? I lean towards no but am just gobsnacked people can’t puttgeir dislike aside and acknowledge he was revolutionary in the game in 09 - GT was focussed on running revolutions against Demetriou which only served to hurt us long term. Narcissistic fool and I’ve seen many of them in the corporate world...

[freely]

Lyon introduced a playing style so ugly the AFL is still fiddling around with rule changes to try and stop it ever happening again.

[barks4eva]

Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.

It wasn't twelve months...

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 3c05a625c0

Three months.

How freaking messed up is that?

"THE controversial blood injection therapy that helped Paul Chapman win this year's Norm Smith Medal has been banned by the World Anti-Doping Body.
Chapman's troublesome hamstring was helped by a technique that saw blood drained from his body, "spun" to increase its oxygen content, then re-injected into the injured muscle.

The technique was not illegal this year and was seen as critical in allowing Chapman to play in September, when he kicked three goals as best afield in Geelong's Grand Final victory against St Kilda.

But changes to the WADA code, which will apply from January 1, mean doctors can no longer inject blood back directly into a player's muscles. AFL operations manager Adrian Anderson said yesterday the AFL was aware of WADA's change and would apply the new rules.

Blood is spun in a centrifuge to give it an increased concentration of platelets that are rich in healing properties."

Chapman wins a Norm Smith Medal and he required injections to play the game.

Three months after the Grand Final the practice that enabled him to play is banned.

As if St.kilda was not screwed over enough already by umpires in that game... or one in particular being Geelong supporter Sean Ryan.

[Scollop]

I do not hold Ross in high regard.

I reckon he was just outcoached in the 2009 GF. And made some f****** stupid calls regarding selection going in. His usage of one Luke Ball springs to mind.

Added to that he most definitely left our club, OUR club in a complete list shambles when he walked for the dollar.

Gut feel is that we shouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole. However, he would have much, much better resources at his disposal. Moorabbin for example.

But really, f*** that guy.

Hear hear. Yes he was good, but his time is up. Have a look at the squads he's had. Right now he has one of the best lists in the AFL and they can't even make the 8.

Why do you think Freo supporters are trying to get rid of him? His team has played worse than us in some games this year. We nearly beat them over there for f*** sake

I think Ratten played a huge role in the way the Hawks have totally dominated and humiliated Ross Lyon's current team over the last five years.

The answer is right under our noses. Ratten is the best choice. Don't lose him and don't f*** it up St Kilda

[Scollop]

One other thing

It's one thing where Freo supporters want Ross gone, but the fact that Freo have lost a guy the quality of Lachie Neale last year and other good players in the last couple of years should raise alarm bells and be a warning sign for our club.

Freo aren't run by the same idiots that let Luke Ball go for no compensation, and they took advantage when Lachie Weller wanted out and also with the picks they got for Neale. Brad Hill also wants out.

You can have a good coach that sets standards and also retain your values and respect individuals who are quality people that will benefit your football club because they are part of the fabric of the team. Lyon wanted to bring a guy into the team with questionable character like Lovett, while neglecting the guys right under his nose like Lynch, Armo and Jack Steven, AND treating some of our core group like dirt and pushing them out of the club

I will never forgive or forget the way Lyon treated guys like Max Hudgton, Luke Ball and Goose and Xman (interesting how many chances he's given a guy like Bennell and even with the retention of Sandilands on his list when he was so quick to discard guys like Xavier Clarke and Matthew 'Maguire).

[Teflon]

Lyon introduced a playing style so ugly the AFL is still fiddling around with rule changes to try and stop it ever happening again.

True.
A playing style copied and taken further by Collingwood to generate a flag.
Roos/Eade we’re accused of similar at swans too
I don’t really care....I just want a flag

[Teflon]

One other thing

It's one thing where Freo supporters want Ross gone, but the fact that Freo have lost a guy the quality of Lachie Neale last year and other good players in the last couple of years should raise alarm bells and be a warning sign for our club.

Freo aren't run by the same idiots that let Luke Ball go for no compensation, and they took advantage when Lachie Weller wanted out and also with the picks they got for Neale. Brad Hill also wants out.

You can have a good coach that sets standards and also retain your values and respect individuals who are quality people that will benefit your football club because they are part of the fabric of the team. Lyon wanted to bring a guy into the team with questionable character like Lovett, while neglecting the guys right under his nose like Lynch, Armo and Jack Steven, AND treating some of our core group like dirt and pushing them out of the club

I will never forgive or forget the way Lyon treated guys like Max Hudgton, Luke Ball and Goose and Xman (interesting how many chances he's given a guy like Bennell and even with the retention of Sandilands on his list when he was so quick to discard guys like Xavier Clarke and Matthew 'Maguire).

Lyon wanted Lovett in the team (which many at the time said was the right move) for electric game breaking pace that he knew we did not have on the list. Yeah it blew up and we are all hindsight warriors but again the intention was to take our on field playing ability to another level by fixing a clear gap.

Nick Riewoldt, Brendan Goddard, Nick Dal Santo, Joe Montagna ALL rate him as the best coach they’ve had so he must’ve treated some people ok ? In any footy club done will be unhappy - fact of life. Under Richo apparently some of the younger guys weren’t happy...
Not a reason to question a guys coaching ability when the FACTS tell you otherwise.

[Josh Battle]

Stop living in the past Teflon. You have admitted yourself on this page of this thread that you have your doubts

Roo and BJ and Nicky Dal and Joey aren't the best qualified to be making decisions about who should coach our current team and further more...they aren't the best qualified to be assessing where the list is at.

[saynta]

Stop living in the past Teflon. You have admitted yourself on this page of this thread that you have your doubts

Roo and BJ and Nicky Dal and Joey aren't the best qualified to be making decisions about who should coach our current team and further more...they aren't the best qualified to be assessing where the list is at.

I agree with you there. They would be biased.

Bit like hostages falling in love with their captor.

[Teflon]

Stop living in the past Teflon. You have admitted yourself on this page of this thread that you have your doubts

Roo and BJ and Nicky Dal and Joey aren't the best qualified to be making decisions about who should coach our current team and further more...they aren't the best qualified to be assessing where the list is at.

Ofcourse I have doubts that why I said it - how doe that equate to living in the past?
And to suggest recently retired ex champions have no idea on our list and who ought to coach us is just utter garbage
Let me guess....you’d know better right?
Just bizarre...

[Josh Battle]

I didn't say they had 'no idea'. They're your words

[B.M]

How’s Lyon being going recently?

He had a ridiculous amount of talent at his disposal whilst at StK
The number of players that had been AA or were AA or future AA was staggering.
Compare that to this team over the last two seasons
1 - Dan Hannebury
And he’s played two games

[B.M]

Off the top of my head
Riewoldt, Ball, Goddard, Montagna, Hayes, DavSanto, Milne, Dempster, Gardiner.

Not sure if Fisher and King were AA’s?

Add that to Ray, Gram, Kosi, Schneider, Baker, Gilbert, Blake

Now that’s a good team

Point is, he had a lot of natural talent at his disposal

[saynta]

Off the top of my head
Riewoldt, Ball, Goddard, Montagna, Hayes, DavSanto, Milne, Dempster, Gardiner.

Not sure if Fisher and King were AA’s?

Add that to Ray, Gram, Kosi, Schneider, Baker, Gilbert, Blake

Now that’s a good team

Point is, he had a lot of natural talent at his disposal

Bottom 4 to 6 was always a problem though. Filled those spots with rejects from other clubs instead of drafting and playing kids.