Lyon

[saynta]

There's a lot better coaches around than Lyon, he couldn't get a very capable and disciplined team to win a premiership, so not really much chop in the end. Ratten should be signed up right now.

It was arguably the best list in the club’s history. Assembled and developed by someone else, I might add.

Disagree totally on the list comment, GT had the best list assembled in my time watching the Saints by a country mile.

Somehow, posters on this site seems to think or perpetuate GT made it to 2 x Prelims with a bunch of 18 & 19 YO kids (not suggesting you are one of them), when this was not the case at all. GT had a far superior list than Lyon inherited.

By the time Lyon took over most media and many, many fans including lots on this site thought it was rebuild time not an opportunity to have a tilt at a flag.

Injuries and a disinterested thug by the name of Guerra cost us the prelim against the swans. Guerra cost us the other one too, by missing a simple kick of the ground for an easy goal. Crowd invasion was also a factor.

Agree the invasion certainly cost us momentum at a critical time and may well have been the difference.
We were all over them and another couple of unanswered goals and anything could have happened.

I can't agree that isolated incidents like Guerra, cost us the match.

He was a factor in both loses imho. After the swans loss and the pathetic performance put up by Guerra , particularly after half time , I remember saying to anyone who would listen that the bastard should never wear a saints jumper again. He didn't.
If he had kicked the goal against Port instead of a point, we win. Simple.

[bigred]

I do not hold Ross in high regard.

I reckon he was just outcoached in the 2009 GF. And made some f****** stupid calls regarding selection going in. His usage of one Luke Ball springs to mind.

Added to that he most definitely left our club, OUR club in a complete list shambles when he walked for the dollar.

Gut feel is that we shouldn't go near him with a ten foot pole. However, he would have much, much better resources at his disposal. Moorabbin for example.

But really, f*** that guy.

[skeptic]

The 2009-10 were in my opinion a much more seasoned and depth full list.

The quality of the 05 list falls away quite dramatically

[skeptic]

On the topic of how Lyon left the club... few ppl argue that the deal he got was too good to refuse and he didn’t do anything illegal...
But he chose to back deal and mislead.

He stopped contract talks mid season, agreed to terms with us days before he announced he was leaving and took every opportunity to pot the Saints on his way out... he didn’t need to do any of that.


But the bigger issue here is about how he left the club.

The reality is/was Steven and Armitage couldn’t get a game for us ahead of guys like McQualter. And he left us devoid of developing talent and that’s a pattern that they went through again at Freo albeit not as bad.

IMO it’s his approach... he’s not a long term thinker. For mine that approach is fatally flawed

[bigred]

Yep.

His behaviour was poor on exit.

I kinda blame him for Watters. Just into a black hole for a few years.

[Impatient Sainter]

He is cooked and not what we need.

[Teflon]

In a heart beat. The development phase is almost done and now we need a next level coach.

Roo is beind this.

Rooey would say that. Played his best football under Lyin’ and had his most success under Lyin’.

I’ve the utmost respect for Rooey, but he isn’t running the club anymore. Is he?

Yeah and what we he know anyway?
How come whenever asked he never nominated GT....I wonder...

[HighettMan]

I don’t know... it’s taken us what 8 years to climb out of the mess he left us with last time.
Not to mention the very shady circumstances in which he left... hasn’t exactly done wonders with Freo either

Def a pass from me

IMO GT had the right idea (not saying he should come back) but you should always aim to continue developing for the future even whilst pushing finals/aiming for the big one.
Lyon has too much of a sacrifice tomorrow for today mentality

If RL hadn't lost 3 of his key players in as matter of weeks his team would be top 4 and in the flag discussion for 2019. He will take the list to a flag for sure. He is coaching very very well and has add the opportunity to develop a team from the ground up and has also developed the offensive side to his game plan.

Take the jilted lover emotion out of it and you see it differently.

[Crossy66]

It's fair enough to have a view on whether RTB is the best next coach option,.
But if the negative view is based on the circumstances around his departure, then that's wrong
RTB was not supportive of the blind faith the club had placed in pelchan- so who was right?
Nettlefold offered a sub par contract and wanted to reign Ross in. Just plain dumb if they believed he was the man going forward.
He didnt want to leave, was treated poorly, so why does anyone think he owed an incompetent board anything?
Following the pelchan model among other decisions by this group is what sent us into oblivion for 5 years.

[saynta]

I don’t know... it’s taken us what 8 years to climb out of the mess he left us with last time.
Not to mention the very shady circumstances in which he left... hasn’t exactly done wonders with Freo either

Def a pass from me

IMO GT had the right idea (not saying he should come back) but you should always aim to continue developing for the future even whilst pushing finals/aiming for the big one.
Lyon has too much of a sacrifice tomorrow for today mentality

If RL hadn't lost 3 of his key players in as matter of weeks his team would be top 4 and in the flag discussion for 2019. He will take the list to a flag for sure. He is coaching very very well and has add the opportunity to develop a team from the ground up and has also developed the offensive side to his game plan.

Take the jilted lover emotion out of it and you see it differently.

Just a "fair" coach and a very ordinary bloke, imho.

[Vazelos]

There's a lot better coaches around than Lyon, he couldn't get a very capable and disciplined team to win a premiership, so not really much chop in the end. Ratten should be signed up right now.

It was arguably the best list in the club’s history. Assembled and developed by someone else, I might add.

Disagree totally on the list comment, GT had the best list assembled in my time watching the Saints by a country mile.

Somehow, posters on this site seems to think or perpetuate GT made it to 2 x Prelims with a bunch of 18 & 19 YO kids (not suggesting you are one of them), when this was not the case at all. GT had a far superior list than Lyon inherited.

By the time Lyon took over most media and many, many fans including lots on this site thought it was rebuild time not an opportunity to have a tilt at a flag.

We can agree to disagree on that Joffa.

the fact is the core of that team - Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal, BJ, Kosi, Milne, Blake and others - was in its prime under Lyin’

2004/5 is well know as the best list we ever had.
It was the best list in the game and Thommo blew it...

[The_President]

In a heart beat. The development phase is almost done and now we need a next level coach.

Roo is beind this.

Correct

[The_President]

The guy lost all his money and all his superannuation in 2010 from a failed business deal. At the time, the Saints would not offer him a long term contract and Fremantle would. Nettlefold told him that his position was not guaranteed beyond 2012. He needed to rebuild his life financially and had young kids. What would you do in the same circumstances? Would you pick your employer or your family's financial security?

Yes but he still went about it the wrong way. He didn’t even let his manager know. It was a disgraceful exit.

I still think he’s a great coach but not for us. He’d be a good fit at Carlton. They need someone to whip them into shape.

He couldn't let his manager know because he would have a conflict of interest. Actually was pretty respectful if you look at it like that.

[SydneySainter]

Lyon wants to be a premiership coach and would therefore have zero interest in overseeing our mini-rebuild.

What coach doesn't? Are we undertaking a mini rebuild? First I've heard it and not sure what it is anyway.

Yes, because the first rebuild hasn’t worked and this lineup still does not have the calibre to play finals.

Lyon would want a team ready-made for finals.

[barks4eva]

I'm not saying I want Ross Lyon back BUT... to those that keep posting this fictitious nonsense surrounding his departure...

He was not supported by the Westaway administration and in fact they inserted a three month get out clause in his contract after he'd just coached the team to back to back Grand Finals.

They refused to back him in beyond the following season and were not on the same page.
At the last minute Nettlefold threw up a three year offer to cover their backs for all the duplicitous nonsense they had been throwing Ross Lyon's way.

Ross Lyon did not want Pelchen appointed and this was done by the Westaway administration to subvert and diminish Ross Lyon's authority.

Pelchen was another disaster.

Ross Lyon and the playing group also did not want the Seaford move and were 100% against it.

How did the Seaford move go?

When Fremantle came knocking with a long term contract and total support when all he was getting from Nettlefold was subterfuge he enacted the get out clause the Westaway administration had inserted.

The Westaway Footy First administration who took the club to Seaford, appointed Pelchen and Bains to oversee the playing list and appointed Watters and Richardson as senior coaches were an absolutely catastrophic disaster that has sent the club into a decade of oblivion.

Absolute goofballs and anyone who voted for Footy First should acknowledge their stupidity in voting these clowns in.

Ross Lyon was within a whisker of being a dual premiership coach.
I could give a thousand examples but for starters...
Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.
If the incompetent Demetriou administration had their shyte together and had this drug banned before the 2009 Grand Final, St.kilda would have won the 2009 Grand Final and Ross Lyon would be a St.kilda legend and premiership coach.

How would you speak of him then?

Perspective please!

[Sainternist]

I sincerely hope this is just one of Caroline Wilson’s ways to stir the pot. This is a horrible idea. That man is an imposter and should never be trusted again. He’ll only screw us again. I would much prefer Brett Ratten to be appointed coach.

[saynta]

It's fair enough to have a view on whether RTB is the best next coach option,.
But if the negative view is based on the circumstances around his departure, then that's wrong
RTB was not supportive of the blind faith the club had placed in pelchan- so who was right?
Nettlefold offered a sub par contract and wanted to reign Ross in. Just plain dumb if they believed he was the man going forward.
He didnt want to leave, was treated poorly, so why does anyone think he owed an incompetent board anything?
Following the pelchan model among other decisions by this group is what sent us into oblivion for 5 years.

He also cost us two flags. Here are just some of the reasons.

Giving the arse to Banger prematurely

Not playing Ball in the 4th quarter in 2009

Playing a guy who had been on a drip all night in preference to Maxie.

Poor team selection

Not giving the kids a go.

Pissing off both Ball and Maxie which ultimately led to us losing the 2010 grand final

The guy's a complete untrustworthy turd imho.

[Crossy66]

It's fair enough to have a view on whether RTB is the best next coach option,.
But if the negative view is based on the circumstances around his departure, then that's wrong
RTB was not supportive of the blind faith the club had placed in pelchan- so who was right?
Nettlefold offered a sub par contract and wanted to reign Ross in. Just plain dumb if they believed he was the man going forward.
He didnt want to leave, was treated poorly, so why does anyone think he owed an incompetent board anything?
Following the pelchan model among other decisions by this group is what sent us into oblivion for 5 years.

He also cost us two flags. Here are just some of the reasons.

Giving the arse to Banger prematurely

Not playing Ball in the 4th quarter in 2009

Playing a guy who had been on a drip all night in preference to Maxie.

Poor team selection

Not giving the kids a go.

Pissing off both Ball and Maxie which ultimately led to us losing the 2010 grand final

The guy's a complete untrustworthy turd imho.

When you are in charge of anything, you have to make tough calls, some you get right, some u dont. But I have no doubt the motivation was to win a gf at all costs.
Even so none of the decisions make him untrustworthy.
Btw, the Ball decisions he definately got wrong imo Either way, if that's the reasoning for u not wanting him then thats fine. My only issue is with people that dont want him based on misinformation around his departure

[saynta]

It's fair enough to have a view on whether RTB is the best next coach option,.
But if the negative view is based on the circumstances around his departure, then that's wrong
RTB was not supportive of the blind faith the club had placed in pelchan- so who was right?
Nettlefold offered a sub par contract and wanted to reign Ross in. Just plain dumb if they believed he was the man going forward.
He didnt want to leave, was treated poorly, so why does anyone think he owed an incompetent board anything?
Following the pelchan model among other decisions by this group is what sent us into oblivion for 5 years.

He also cost us two flags. Here are just some of the reasons.

Giving the arse to Banger prematurely

Not playing Ball in the 4th quarter in 2009

Playing a guy who had been on a drip all night in preference to Maxie.

Poor team selection

Not giving the kids a go.

Pissing off both Ball and Maxie which ultimately led to us losing the 2010 grand final

The guy's a complete untrustworthy turd imho.

When you are in charge of anything, you have to make tough calls, some you get right, some u dont. But I have no doubt the motivation was to win a gf at all costs.
Even so none of the decisions make him untrustworthy.
Btw, the Ball decisions he definately got wrong imo Either way, if that's the reasoning for u not wanting him then thats fine. My only issue is with people that dont want him based on misinformation around his departure

Appreciate your post mate, but my recollection about the circumstances surrounding the tosser leaving the club is somewhat different from others. B for E might be right in some respects, but the prick stripped our list, retired certain players when they had no idea he was going to do that, and all while he was in secret negotiations with Freo, unbeknownst to the saints and his manager even.

As I said the guy's a completely untrustworthy turd and a wanker to boot.

My motto when it comes to footy is never forger and never forgive.

[spert]

I'm not saying I want Ross Lyon back BUT... to those that keep posting this fictitious nonsense surrounding his departure...

He was not supported by the Westaway administration and in fact they inserted a three month get out clause in his contract after he'd just coached the team to back to back Grand Finals.

They refused to back him in beyond the following season and were not on the same page.
At the last minute Nettlefold threw up a three year offer to cover their backs for all the duplicitous nonsense they had been throwing Ross Lyon's way.

Ross Lyon did not want Pelchen appointed and this was done by the Westaway administration to subvert and diminish Ross Lyon's authority.

Pelchen was another disaster.

Ross Lyon and the playing group also did not want the Seaford move and were 100% against it.

How did the Seaford move go?

When Fremantle came knocking with a long term contract and total support when all he was getting from Nettlefold was subterfuge he enacted the get out clause the Westaway administration had inserted.

The Westaway Footy First administration who took the club to Seaford, appointed Pelchen and Bains to oversee the playing list and appointed Watters and Richardson as senior coaches were an absolutely catastrophic disaster that has sent the club into a decade of oblivion.

Absolute goofballs and anyone who voted for Footy First should acknowledge their stupidity in voting these clowns in.

Ross Lyon was within a whisker of being a dual premiership coach.
I could give a thousand examples but for starters...
Paul Chapman, the 2009 Norm Smith Medallist and match winner only played the game after receiving an injection... twelve months later the substance he was injected with was classified as a performance enhancing drug and was banned.
If the incompetent Demetriou administration had their shyte together and had this drug banned before the 2009 Grand Final, St.kilda would have won the 2009 Grand Final and Ross Lyon would be a St.kilda legend and premiership coach.

How would you speak of him then?

Perspective please!

If the opposition didn't kick a higher score in our losses, then we would have won every game including the grand finals. Old Ross really got the boys fired up in the GF replay didn't he? Sure are a lot of excuses for yet another coach who couldn't deliver us another premiership- he's not quite good enough OK!

[bigcarl]

I don’t know... it’s taken us what 8 years to climb out of the mess he left us with last time.
Not to mention the very shady circumstances in which he left... hasn’t exactly done wonders with Freo either

Def a pass from me

IMO GT had the right idea (not saying he should come back) but you should always aim to continue developing for the future even whilst pushing finals/aiming for the big one.
Lyon has too much of a sacrifice tomorrow for today mentality

If RL hadn't lost 3 of his key players in as matter of weeks his team would be top 4 and in the flag discussion for 2019. He will take the list to a flag for sure. He is coaching very very well and has add the opportunity to develop a team from the ground up and has also developed the offensive side to his game plan.

Take the jilted lover emotion out of it and you see it differently.

We know his game. He runs his key men into the ground and doesn’t develop new ones. He is a defensive minded coach and has been worked out. A leopard can’t change its spots.

He had his chances with us, but we’ve moved on. Please don’t bring him back

[Crossy66]

It's fair enough to have a view on whether RTB is the best next coach option,.
But if the negative view is based on the circumstances around his departure, then that's wrong
RTB was not supportive of the blind faith the club had placed in pelchan- so who was right?
Nettlefold offered a sub par contract and wanted to reign Ross in. Just plain dumb if they believed he was the man going forward.
He didnt want to leave, was treated poorly, so why does anyone think he owed an incompetent board anything?
Following the pelchan model among other decisions by this group is what sent us into oblivion for 5 years.

He also cost us two flags. Here are just some of the reasons.

Giving the arse to Banger prematurely

Not playing Ball in the 4th quarter in 2009

Playing a guy who had been on a drip all night in preference to Maxie.

Poor team selection

Not giving the kids a go.

Pissing off both Ball and Maxie which ultimately led to us losing the 2010 grand final

The guy's a complete untrustworthy turd imho.

When you are in charge of anything, you have to make tough calls, some you get right, some u dont. But I have no doubt the motivation was to win a gf at all costs.
Even so none of the decisions make him untrustworthy.
Btw, the Ball decisions he definately got wrong imo Either way, if that's the reasoning for u not wanting him then thats fine. My only issue is with people that dont want him based on misinformation around his departure

Appreciate your post mate, but my recollection about the circumstances surrounding the tosser leaving the club is somewhat different from others. B for E might be right in some respects, but the prick stripped our list, retired certain players when they had no idea he was going to do that, and all while he was in secret negotiations with Freo, unbeknownst to the saints and his manager even.

As I said the guy's a completely untrustworthy turd and a wanker to boot.

My motto when it comes to footy is never forger and never forgive.

Lyon felt somewhat betrayed over the deal offered and the pelchan thing so I understand his mind set. Retiring the 3 players was a little bizarre and disrespectful to Baker but facts are that no one picked up eddy, Baker or mcqualter.
But if he was the best person to win our second flag, would you do it?

[desertsaint]

And Lyon had these guys at rheir peak

Saints 2005

Player Age
Hayes # 29 AA
Hudgton # 32
Baker # 28
Montagna # 25 AA
Riewoldt # 26 AA
Ball # 25
Gram # 24
Clarke R # 23
Goddard # 24 AA
Koschitzke # 26
Fisher S # 27
Dal Santo # 25 AA
Blake # 28
McGough # 24
Maguire # 25 like Hamill - injured
McQualter # 22
Gwilt # 23
Milne # 25

Roo, Hayes, and Milne undoubtedly better players in the Lyon era.
Add Gardiner and King rucking - far superior
Add Schneidner, Dempster, Gilbert, Dawson, Ray, Jones, Steven, Armitage, McEvoy, Geary, Lynch.
And should have had
Harvey # 33 - had another year in him, would've been gold in the gf. exited by Lyon.
Lyon had the superior team. In all 9 players (plus Harvey) earned AA status from the above named. And he had them all in their prime, bar perhaps Gardiner.
He also had some decent youth but unlike Grant he didn't play them, preferring the likes of mcgough and mcqualter, and bringing in the likes of peake.

[BarryGrogan]

There's a lot better coaches around than Lyon, he couldn't get a very capable and disciplined team to win a premiership, so not really much chop in the end. Ratten should be signed up right now.

It was arguably the best list in the club’s history. Assembled and developed by someone else, I might add.

Disagree totally on the list comment, GT had the best list assembled in my time watching the Saints by a country mile.

Somehow, posters on this site seems to think or perpetuate GT made it to 2 x Prelims with a bunch of 18 & 19 YO kids (not suggesting you are one of them), when this was not the case at all. GT had a far superior list than Lyon inherited.

By the time Lyon took over most media and many, many fans including lots on this site thought it was rebuild time not an opportunity to have a tilt at a flag.

We can agree to disagree on that Joffa.

the fact is the core of that team - Riewoldt, Hayes, Dal, BJ, Kosi, Milne, Blake and others - was in its prime under Lyin’

2004/5 is well know as the best list we ever had.
It was the best list in the game and Thommo blew it...

I think that's misleading.


2004 was a raw list. Not rwady. Which showed.

2005 was the one. The list was ready, the belief was there...but injuries were the difference.

Did GT 'blow it'? Or did the losses of 5-6 startin 18 players from the Prelim prove a bridge too far?

I believe the latter.

2006 our injuries were worse.


So having the best list, is virtually irrelevant if a big chunk of that list doesn't play.


A poster just cut Lyon some slack cause he's missing 3 gun players - our 2005/06 teams missed more than 3 and made the top 4.


But anyway, who gives a s***.

[StPeter]

A big NO from me.

His team selections with the likes of McQualter and Eddy cost us two grand finals. He virtually admitted his mistake by cutting them both from the list shortly after.

His treatment of Ball was also disgusting especially in the 2009 GF when he forgot about him being on the bench for the whole last quarter.