Rob Harvey in the running for head coach role

[bigred]

The fact that he’s a St Kilda great isn’t enough reason imo. He’d also need to be best qualified.

Does he have the communication skills? Is he tough enough? There’s a whole range of factors involved.

I just don’t see him as a senior coach ... but I have been wrong before

I agree whole heartedly with your first point. He needs to be the best available.

The communication skills I don't think are an issue. He has been in the system for too long for that to be a problem. The only people I really think that matter are the players, other coaches and what not. If he gives three word answers in press conferences I couldn't give a rats bottom if we are winning.

I do see him as a senior coach. Definitely. I reckon he would be a pretty hard bastard to be honest.

For years I kinda hoped that we wouldn't hire him at any point because you do not want to tarnish that record, or have his legacy changed in any shape or form. But no one gave a damn about Baldock. His legacy is completely unchanged. If anything it was increased by his time coaching us. He dragged us out of the wilderness. "Don't stuff it up" from his f****** sick bed still resonates.

If Harvey is the best candidate, I hope he gets it and I really hope he succeeds. I'll tell you one thing, I've been a pretty lacklustre member over the past five years or so, with waning interest. We hire Harvey, and I'll be buying reserved seats for the kids too.

[Ghost Like]

However his coaching pans out will not alter his status as not only a great St Kilda player but a legend of the game.

It didn't devalue the Doc, if anything it cast the great man in stone (brass).

[Munga]

Harvs > Ratts > Brad

and quite a bit of daylight in between

[saynta]

Harvs > Ratts > Brad

and quite a bit of daylight in between

Banger > Ratts > Knights > Loser. (Scott)

[HighettMan]

I hate Harvey already as a coach. He will be terrible in press conferences and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line. Although our bombs should be from within 35m from goal.

[Ghost Like]

I hate Harvey already as a coach. He will be terrible in press conferences and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line. Although our bombs should be from within 35m from goal.

Maybe ask Plugger how Harves delivered the ball inside 50.

[The Fireman]

I hate Harvey already as a coach. He will be terrible in press conferences and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line. Although our bombs should be from within 35m from goal.

I'd like a coach that doesn't talk to the press

[shanegrambeau]

I hate Harvey already as a coach. He will be terrible in press conferences and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line. Although our bombs should be from within 35m from goal.

Maybe ask Plugger how Harves delivered the ball inside 50.

Was gonna say that....

CAN SOME PLP OPINE ABOUT THE THREE BEST TRAITS OF THESE FOUR CANDIDATES? I'd really like to learn your opinions.


Do we delete traits which Richo already has? shared? not sure...?

Harvs.
A midfield guru, player and coach < our midfield sucks
St Kilda legend, knows Moorabbin is in DNA and positive about it < no culture shock
Has failed (twice?) already to be our coach and if he still applies is good. < determined

Ratts
Proven success at Carlton. (very stiff to get the A)
Worked with Clarkson
Caretaker for us

Scott
hard
reasonably successful with a mediocre list
tactically good? (not to mean the others aren't)

Knights
Also reasonable success and a but stiff to get A
?
?

[Waltzing St Kilda]

We need someone who's gonna shake up the place. Put a rocket up some of the young blokes.

Is that Harves?

Don't know.

Do prefer him -- massively -- to Scott and Knights, though.

[WellardSaint]

Here's a question.
Does club ask applicants if they're happy to work with Sexton and the other assistants, or does he want to bring his own crew?

The assistants all have contracts (i guess), so will the club pick 'the best available who is prepared to work under the current set-up'?

Geez, that will narrow down the field a lot.
If he doesn't do so well in yr1 or yr2, he can tell Barrett quietly that 'well, I wanted to bring this guy and that guy, so my hands were tied and it's not my fault'

Then Barrett will publish 'internal strife at Moorabbin again'

[SaintPav]

No, the grown ups can work it out.

[leighsaintsince66]

We need someone who's gonna shake up the place. Put a rocket up some of the young blokes.

Is that Harves?

Don't know.

Do prefer him -- massively -- to Scott and Knights, though.

"shake up the place"...

I agree, some of the young blokes might need a rocket.

This doesn't always work however, eg Mark Neeld at the demons in 2012.

I truly hope that Harvey gets the gig.

[Harvey To Hayes]

Here's a question.
Does club ask applicants if they're happy to work with Sexton and the other assistants, or does he want to bring his own crew?

The assistants all have contracts (i guess), so will the club pick 'the best available who is prepared to work under the current set-up'?

Geez, that will narrow down the field a lot.
If he doesn't do so well in yr1 or yr2, he can tell Barrett quietly that 'well, I wanted to bring this guy and that guy, so my hands were tied and it's not my fault'

Then Barrett will publish 'internal strife at Moorabbin again'

You love Barrett

[HighettMan]

I hate Harvey already as a coach. He will be terrible in press conferences and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line. Although our bombs should be from within 35m from goal.

Maybe ask Plugger how Harves delivered the ball inside 50.

Was gonna say that....

CAN SOME PLP OPINE ABOUT THE THREE BEST TRAITS OF THESE FOUR CANDIDATES? I'd really like to learn your opinions.


Do we delete traits which Richo already has? shared? not sure...?

Harvs.
A midfield guru, player and coach < our midfield sucks
St Kilda legend, knows Moorabbin is in DNA and positive about it < no culture shock
Has failed (twice?) already to be our coach and if he still applies is good. < determined

Ratts
Proven success at Carlton. (very stiff to get the A)
Worked with Clarkson
Caretaker for us

Scott
hard
reasonably successful with a mediocre list
tactically good? (not to mean the others aren't)

Knights
Also reasonable success and a but stiff to get A
?
?

Locket had a massive chest and Harves was flatout kicking it over a jam tin although if he got close enough to the jam tin he could direct with laser precision onto said massive chest that was moving with frightening speed towards said jam tin.

Now for the opining:

Identifying traits on thier own is a pointless exercise.

It is common recruiting practice to identify achievements made by candidates that match organisational needs so in the this case we are looking for someone that can improve on the good foundation laid by Alan.

Remembering head coaches are like governments, it's about a popularity contest, they don't get voted in, they get voted out.

Harvey: Never coached a side in his own right. Is he the mids coach of arguably one of the deepest and most talented midfields. Not surprising considering his boss was a midfielder so they could be a little midfield centric. Not that there is anything wrong with that. So what are Harvey's achievements as a coach? We know the Pies nearly won a flag. How much of that effort was achieved through Harves work. What initiatives did he bring to the table.

Ratten: Coached a side in his own right that won games in AFL finals. Was an assitant during the Hawks 3peat. How much of that effort was achieved through Ratts work. Remembering the team was loaded with once-in-a-generation stars and onfield generals.

Scott: Coached a side in his own right that won games in AFL finals.

Knights: coached a team in his own right that made AFL finals but didn't win an AFL final.

Back to the point about the head coach position being a popularity contest, it's about "relationships", it's about salesmanship, it's about being able to take people along for the "juuuuurney".

If you've ever lead a team of ego centric men, which lets face it most young men are, especially ones that get put up on pedestals, then you know how hard it can be if that group of individuals are getting thier capabilities mixed up with thier ambitions. However the job becomes easier if the team are all mostly skilled practitioners and confident in thier own ability.

[Ghost Like]

Sounds like Harves knocked you back for an autograph. There really has to be a reason for your angst.

Kicking over jam tins, thank god Hawthorn, the Dogs & Geelong didn't use that prerequisite.

Mick Nolan could be running (?) out of goal square at the moment and our mids would not even see him, let alone hit him. I watched Ross in a game this year stream out of the centre, skewed his kick and missed the entire F50 all together! I'm quite sure the "lowering your eyes" poster boy would be Rob Harvey.

If anything he's a lesson in playing to his limitations and perfecting that through hard work and effort. I'm quietly confident he'd get that message across.

Quick google search, the great man still kicked 215 goals (trivia - same number of Brownlow votes). 215 goals has him ranked currently at 345 on the all time goal kickers. I would say that's high for a pure midfielder.

I think Harvey knows about the midfield, forward entries and the discipline required to get the best out of ones self.

As for coaching in your own right, please tell me who Simpson, Hardwick, Clarkson, the Scott brothers, Longmire and Thompson coached in their own right before being appointed.

Clarkson, at Werribee, then the SANFL & Beveridge at St Bedes, a phenomenal achievement. I doubt though, like Leicester City (same year) the planets will align like they did for the Dogs again for a very long time. Perhaps 2016 was Bevo's Hawks 2008, time will tell but he can obviously instill belief in his players.

I do think R. Harvey is the right move for the Club where it is right now, on & off field.

I do believe coaches are voted in, either unanimously or by majority. Unless it's a Philippino election and Lethlean is in charge of the voting booths.

[ss1986]

Jack Steven couldnt hit Jake Carlisle with a simple dink over a jam tin when he needed to - mightve changed the whole course of Cho’s tenure.

[kosifantutti]

Jack Steven couldnt hit Jake Carlisle with a simple dink over a jam tin when he needed to - mightve changed the whole course of Cho’s tenure.

GWS last year? The kick was fine. Jake should have marked it and the free should have been paid.

[saintsRrising]

and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line.

How quickly people forget. Harvey became the master of the 30 m pass to the lead up forward or player in space in our forward line.

You hear the term now of lower the eyes. Players like Banger would have inspired that term.

[Legendary]

To me, the two biggest knocks on Harvey (trying to assess him objectively) are that he hasn't coached a team in his own right and he comes across poorly in the media.

The second can be rectified to some extent with training and effort but I wonder how it translates to his general communication style. This has always been a question mark.

The first issue I think he needs to go out and address before he's ready for a senior coaching role. Having head coach responsibilities and being the one making the decision, whether it's at VFL level or elsewhere, seems like an important skill. Certainly Clarkson, Lyon, Beveridge all coached in their own right although Simpson and Longmire did not.

[Legendary]

and his goal kicking was poor so we will still bomb it into the forward line.

How quickly people forget. Harvey became the master of the 30 m pass to the lead up forward or player in space in our forward line.

You hear the term now of lower the eyes. Players like Banger would have inspired that term.

Agree. If Harvey could coach every player in our team to deliver the ball inside 50m as well as he did as a player, Bruce and King will each kick 10 goals per week.

Tony Lockett said that Harvey was the best kick-to-lead player he ever played with. That says enough...

[bigred]

Yes well, I don't agree with your Jam tin assessment. Go and watch the fresh highlight video on youtube. That should show you just how good his field kicking was.

But that is beside the point. If you are going to attempt to derail his potential application because of his field kicking, well then Knights is out of the running, Scott shouldn't bother to apply and perhaps Ratten should think twice. Clarkson would never have gotten a coaching gig if it was purely based on his playing career.

The other coaches on your list, Ratten, Scott and Knights have all coached at a senior level before. Granted. At some point they had not however.

Ratten got shafted by Carlton in what really was a complete case of board level calamity. He legitimately had success at Carlton but the board overrated the list and went bananas to get Malthouse into the club. He would be an extremely strong candidate with his work history. No doubt about it.

Knights was always going to be under the pump taking over from Sheedy. Still, he appears to be highly rated and has a few years now most recently at Geelong. He would have to be a good candidate I guess. he floundered at Essendon however. He was under extreme, probably undue pressure there. This was a cultural issue. The club completely shyt the bed.

Scott coached for ten years. 211 games and won 106 of them. Eight finals and won four of them. He literally went at 50%. His best year was 2014 where he won 16 and lost 9. Did you ever, at any point throughout that journey think that North were a genuine contender?

So Harvey only retired at the end of 2008. Went to Carlton as a development/fitness coach for 2009. Under Brett Ratten, he took over the midfield as an assistant. In 2011 he was at StKilda under Lyon as midfield coach. He bailed after not getting the senior gig when Watters did. He probably did not have near enough the experience at that point in time. So he went to Collingwood under Buckley straight after. Won the assistant coach of the year award in 2013. Wikipedia is an amazing thing. But over that period the filth have become a pretty good side. With the one Grand Final appearance last year and three years playing finals over the journey excluding 2019 where they should finish around the top four.

I think he should be considered a decent applicant.

[SaintPav]

If Harvey is any good you would think he would also be a strong applicant for both Carlton or Norf?

Also, I hope they appoint their caretaker coaches as this potentially means we have a larger pool of coaches which we could choose from.

[st.byron]

If Harvey is any good you would think he would also be a strong applicant for both Carlton or Norf?

Also, I hope they appoint their caretaker coaches as this potentially means we have a larger pool of coaches which we could choose from.

Yep agree. Teague would be hard to ignore if Carlton keep improving the way they are. I reckon Ratten and Harves would both be strong candidates and would be happy with either.
Basically, I have nfi who would be best, just an uninformed preference.

What a dream that is though.....Harves returns as coach and wins a flag.

[bigred]

It is all purely speculation. No one here knows who will make a good or bad coach.

Purely speculative. But what else are we going to do at this point in time, two days after giving the previous guy the lemon and sars?

[magnifisaint]

It has to be Ratten!