The most overrated thing in footy

[st.byron]

Coaching doesn’t make a difference.......meh

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the ... 524gx.html


“..............This is not just a high-energy team playing with intensity dialled up to the next level. North Mark 2 is a different team for a range of measurable reasons that go well beyond just being manic in the contest. They are playing differently.

In the first 10 rounds they were among the sides to kick the ball backwards most. In the games since round 10, New North kick it forwards the third-most of any team. New North also now kick the ball long more than any side in the competition.”

You better load up on that Chinese medicine from Nimbin today, you may implode if we spank North.

Stereotyping. Good one.

[Myron Gaines]

It’s a good topic because even know I disagree with the premise it opens up discussion about many failings of the club & that they need to be rectified to improve.

Of course the position of the head coach is not overrated. The head coach oversees &/or contributes to all footy department decisions, from recruitment, development, coaching, strategies, leadership, etc. The head coach provides the strategic direction of the team & heavily contributes to the strategic direction of the footy department in its entirety.

“What do you need, Alan?” - Lethlean/Libba

“Give me a new line coach, with this & that experience, maybe this guy?” - Alan

“I need more speed in the forward half, ready made blokes that are strong at the contest” - Alan

“I really like these blokes as future leaders, they remind me of myself & yell a lot at training.” - Alan

The head coach signs off on all footy department decisions, he is ultimately accountable.

The overarching issue is the general culture at the club. There was no adequate leadership succession plan post Nick Riewoldt, Joey, Dempster. The club lacks brutal & honest feedback to challenge individuals & them collectively.

The club is stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Unfortunately for Richo, he is the face of the past 6 years of mediocrity. The team on the field conducts themselves in a way that represents Alan’s personality & what he has learnt in his journey, & more importantly, prioritised.

The team is strong at the contest but lacks anything resembling an innovative, daring, winning game style that is one step ahead of the competition. His failings are that he is not flexible to adapt to the changing landscape of the league nor flexible to change during match day.

Richo is our Brendan McCarthy & I strongly believe would’ve been out the door 12 months ago if not for Finnis’s blunder of extending his contract. I equally believe Lethlean & the new Prez identified that Richo needs to go early in the piece & his papers were stamped a long time ago, only waiting for finals to be mathematically impossible & then he gets the bullet.

[HighettMan]

It’s a good topic because even know I disagree with the premise it opens up discussion about many failings of the club & that they need to be rectified to improve.

Of course the position of the head coach is not overrated. The head coach oversees &/or contributes to all footy department decisions, from recruitment, development, coaching, strategies, leadership, etc. The head coach provides the strategic direction of the team & heavily contributes to the strategic direction of the footy department in its entirety.

“What do you need, Alan?” - Lethlean/Libba

“Give me a new line coach, with this & that experience, maybe this guy?” - Alan

“I need more speed in the forward half, ready made blokes that are strong at the contest” - Alan

“I really like these blokes as future leaders, they remind me of myself & yell a lot at training.” - Alan

The head coach signs off on all footy department decisions, he is ultimately accountable.

The overarching issue is the general culture at the club. There was no adequate leadership succession plan post Nick Riewoldt, Joey, Dempster. The club lacks brutal & honest feedback to challenge individuals & them collectively.

The club is stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Unfortunately for Richo, he is the face of the past 6 years of mediocrity. The team on the field conducts themselves in a way that represents Alan’s personality & what he has learnt in his journey, & more importantly, prioritised.

The team is strong at the contest but lacks anything resembling an innovative, daring, winning game style that is one step ahead of the competition. His failings are that he is not flexible to adapt to the changing landscape of the league nor flexible to change during match day.

Richo is our Brendan McCarthy & I strongly believe would’ve been out the door 12 months ago if not for Finnis’s blunder of extending his contract. I equally believe Lethlean & the new Prez identified that Richo needs to go early in the piece & his papers were stamped a long time ago, only waiting for finals to be mathematically impossible & then he gets the bullet.

You ever run a club at any level. Most of what you believe sounds like a VFA club from 70s.

You put that much workload onto one man in a 100 + employee size organisation and you will be doomed to fail.

Head coach has superiors above him these days and for good reason, not least then fact that you don't want the success of the organisation to rely on the output of an individual and you certainly don't want that individual to own the IP. You have strategies and structures and systems that are owned by the club and the individual just works within that framework. Certainly the individual brings skills sets to the club to help with the continued improvement and updating of said strategies structures and systems but long gone are the days of just handing the keys over and letting someone take her for a joy ride. We are talking about big business here and not the country league.

BMs point is exaxtly bang on correct in a lot of cases fans simplistic views on the head coach, and that is the coach's position is overrated by some fans in the context of of the points I outline above, so coach important but he doesn't carry the workload and responsibility some carry on about.

[Myron Gaines]

It’s a good topic because even know I disagree with the premise it opens up discussion about many failings of the club & that they need to be rectified to improve.

Of course the position of the head coach is not overrated. The head coach oversees &/or contributes to all footy department decisions, from recruitment, development, coaching, strategies, leadership, etc. The head coach provides the strategic direction of the team & heavily contributes to the strategic direction of the footy department in its entirety.

“What do you need, Alan?” - Lethlean/Libba

“Give me a new line coach, with this & that experience, maybe this guy?” - Alan

“I need more speed in the forward half, ready made blokes that are strong at the contest” - Alan

“I really like these blokes as future leaders, they remind me of myself & yell a lot at training.” - Alan

The head coach signs off on all footy department decisions, he is ultimately accountable.

The overarching issue is the general culture at the club. There was no adequate leadership succession plan post Nick Riewoldt, Joey, Dempster. The club lacks brutal & honest feedback to challenge individuals & them collectively.

The club is stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Unfortunately for Richo, he is the face of the past 6 years of mediocrity. The team on the field conducts themselves in a way that represents Alan’s personality & what he has learnt in his journey, & more importantly, prioritised.

The team is strong at the contest but lacks anything resembling an innovative, daring, winning game style that is one step ahead of the competition. His failings are that he is not flexible to adapt to the changing landscape of the league nor flexible to change during match day.

Richo is our Brendan McCarthy & I strongly believe would’ve been out the door 12 months ago if not for Finnis’s blunder of extending his contract. I equally believe Lethlean & the new Prez identified that Richo needs to go early in the piece & his papers were stamped a long time ago, only waiting for finals to be mathematically impossible & then he gets the bullet.

You ever run a club at any level. Most of what you believe sounds like a VFA club from 70s.

You put that much workload onto one man in a 100 + employee size organisation and you will be doomed to fail.

Head coach has superiors above him these days and for good reason, not least then fact that you don't want the success of the organisation to rely on the output of an individual and you certainly don't want that individual to own the IP. You have strategies and structures and systems that are owned by the club and the individual just works within that framework. Certainly the individual brings skills sets to the club to help with the continued improvement and updating of said strategies structures and systems but long gone are the days of just handing the keys over and letting someone take her for a joy ride. We are talking about big business here and not the country league.

BMs point is exaxtly bang on correct in a lot of cases fans simplistic views on the head coach, and that is the coach's position is overrated by some fans in the context of of the points I outline above, so coach important but he doesn't carry the workload and responsibility some carry on about.

I agree with a lot of that with the exception of the fact you are representing Richo like he is a lowly team member at the club. You make it sound like his role is redundant. He’s the head coach & with that comes a lot of power & responsibilities. If you want to put it into some sort of business context, Finnis runs the business, Lethlean oversees operations & Richo reports only to Lethlean. He’s 2IC on footy ops. He’s underperforming thus Lethlean will cut him.

[HighettMan]

It’s a good topic because even know I disagree with the premise it opens up discussion about many failings of the club & that they need to be rectified to improve.

Of course the position of the head coach is not overrated. The head coach oversees &/or contributes to all footy department decisions, from recruitment, development, coaching, strategies, leadership, etc. The head coach provides the strategic direction of the team & heavily contributes to the strategic direction of the footy department in its entirety.

“What do you need, Alan?” - Lethlean/Libba

“Give me a new line coach, with this & that experience, maybe this guy?” - Alan

“I need more speed in the forward half, ready made blokes that are strong at the contest” - Alan

“I really like these blokes as future leaders, they remind me of myself & yell a lot at training.” - Alan

The head coach signs off on all footy department decisions, he is ultimately accountable.

The overarching issue is the general culture at the club. There was no adequate leadership succession plan post Nick Riewoldt, Joey, Dempster. The club lacks brutal & honest feedback to challenge individuals & them collectively.

The club is stuck in a rut of mediocrity. Unfortunately for Richo, he is the face of the past 6 years of mediocrity. The team on the field conducts themselves in a way that represents Alan’s personality & what he has learnt in his journey, & more importantly, prioritised.

The team is strong at the contest but lacks anything resembling an innovative, daring, winning game style that is one step ahead of the competition. His failings are that he is not flexible to adapt to the changing landscape of the league nor flexible to change during match day.

Richo is our Brendan McCarthy & I strongly believe would’ve been out the door 12 months ago if not for Finnis’s blunder of extending his contract. I equally believe Lethlean & the new Prez identified that Richo needs to go early in the piece & his papers were stamped a long time ago, only waiting for finals to be mathematically impossible & then he gets the bullet.

You ever run a club at any level. Most of what you believe sounds like a VFA club from 70s.

You put that much workload onto one man in a 100 + employee size organisation and you will be doomed to fail.

Head coach has superiors above him these days and for good reason, not least then fact that you don't want the success of the organisation to rely on the output of an individual and you certainly don't want that individual to own the IP. You have strategies and structures and systems that are owned by the club and the individual just works within that framework. Certainly the individual brings skills sets to the club to help with the continued improvement and updating of said strategies structures and systems but long gone are the days of just handing the keys over and letting someone take her for a joy ride. We are talking about big business here and not the country league.

BMs point is exaxtly bang on correct in a lot of cases fans simplistic views on the head coach, and that is the coach's position is overrated by some fans in the context of of the points I outline above, so coach important but he doesn't carry the workload and responsibility some carry on about.

I agree with a lot of that with the exception of the fact you are representing Richo like he is a lowly team member at the club. You make it sound like his role is redundant. He’s the head coach & with that comes a lot of power & responsibilities. If you want to put it into some sort of business context, Finnis runs the business, Lethlean oversees operations & Richo reports only to Lethlean. He’s 2IC on footy ops. He’s underperforming thus Lethlean will cut him.

I think you are missing some of the point, yes Alan has accountability attached to his role, you can't assign responsibility without commensurate accountability in a good management system. But you can't do it all yourself and it is completely unrealistic to expect or think you are the exclusive holder of all intelligence and expertise. As a good text book definition of a manager, you get work done through people. I'm pretty certain the people that hire coaches at AFL level know this. Remember Lethelean identified an issue with out structures last year? ok so now he just needs the soldiers to come in and fill the roles within that structure. Getting a management structure right can be as important as finding the right peoeple to manage. Also pretty certain Alan was going to be replaced in Lethleans plans. It made good sense to keep him for 2019 to make nesseary tweaks in other areas. FFS he's only had his feet under the desk for around 12 months. Be patient grasshopper, your coach kill is just around the corner.

[Saintmatt]

Any person in a leadership position who spends a lot of time around their human capital (ie players) has a direct influence over them.

It’s a truism that every organization is built and operates in the image of its leaders. It’s also a truism that you become the average of the 5 people you spend the most amount of time with.

So - if you have a bland, boring, vanilla, beige, apologist leadership ... then they’re the attributes of the troops under them.

Listen to the dribble that our coach spews at his members after each game and imagine having to listen to that every day in your ‘job’.

And you wonder why we are where we are. Coach is overrated my ar$e. Maybe on game day but
not in overall influence on performance and culture.

[Myron Gaines]

The most important role is that of SL’s. He conducted a review & which highlighted a number of key issues:

- recruitment: Trout replaced by Libba. Gubby hired.
- leadership/development: Slator, Hanneberry.
- coaching: overhaul of assistants.
- list: mature recruits, Kent, Hanneberry

Richo’s remit is simple: on field performance. He has been put through a thorough performance review & he’s not meeting the required benchmarks. Just like the other heads of key roles at the club he will be let go.

If Lethlean doesn’t get it right he then goes. His remit is the performance of footy ops, being future ready & of course also around on field performance therefore he relies heavily on the head coach.

s*** slides down hill, Richo is about to cop a mouth full of it unless in the unlikely event performance drastically improves.

[st.byron]

Any person in a leadership position who spends a lot of time around their human capital (ie players) has a direct influence over them.

It’s a truism that every organization is built and operates in the image of its leaders. It’s also a truism that you become the average of the 5 people you spend the most amount of time with.

So - if you have a bland, boring, vanilla, beige, apologist leadership ... then they’re the attributes of the troops under them.

Listen to the dribble that our coach spews at his members after each game and imagine having to listen to that every day in your ‘job’.

And you wonder why we are where we are. Coach is overrated my ar$e. Maybe on game day but
not in overall influence on performance and culture.

Totally agree with this. Leadership is not over rated. Leadership is crucial. It sets the tone for the performance of the organisation. Richardson ain’t no leader. Uninspiring, bland, leadership speak with no substance behind it.

[The Fireman]

The Undervaluation of coaches is overrated

[Scollop]

Three more years before he replaces Eade as the coach with most games without a flag!

We'll never know, so I assume the head is important..and the head's image is also important and unimportant things contribute to the image...which impacts the important things, like culture, players wanting to come, etc.,

Eade was good.

Lyon was good.

?ineage, momentum and luck...Jeans>Eade>Lyon + Media Spin + luck..

Alan Jeans couldn't save Richmond but was in charge at Hawthorn with their incredible run. Was Leigh Mathews good? Collingwood was on the slide when he left..and then the Brians won those three..and then Aker said he can't coach..

I reckon an element of luck certainly plays it's part but for coaches like Jeans or Matthews or Clarkson they have proven themselves over their careers and got their teams to multiple GF's and managed to win multiple cups. Can't be just luck if you win the ultimate more than once

Everyone has a use by date and I reckon even guys like Malthouse and Sheedy and Matthews prove that unless you have the hunger, then it's best that you let someone else take on the role

Alastair Clarkson and John Longmire may never get the chance to coach another grand final if they don't have the hunger either. I think if they are still hungry and still super competitive and super sharp as professionals then they'll probably get there one mor time at least. Same with Beveridge...if he has the hunger he will most probably find a way to get there again

With Ross Lyon, I'm not sure he gives a toss after securing one of the most lucrative contracts in AFL coaching ranks at the time he deserted the Saints...and all on the back of coming second

Geez you come accross as being clueless about topics within footy and AFL coaches is one of those topics. And/or you just post without thinking.

Freo has assembled a really good list and if it wasn't for seasson ending injuries to key players, 3 in particular they could be in the discussion for top 4 certanties.

But I suppose in your defense you are a lot like the bloke that wrote the fictional story about 2
characters called Jesus and Noah. Ever wondered why there wasn't 2 kangaroos on the ark? I'll give you a hint, it was because the author only created stories about things he could see within a very close proximity to himself at the time.

You are amazing. But not in any positive sense. Please stop twisting things around and making stuff up that has nothing to do with what I wrote

If you go to the prediction thread back in January I rated Freo and had them battling for a spot in the top 8. I've sung their praises regarding their list for the last two years. Check some of my posts with a search on the word 'Freo' and then STFU once and for all

[B.M]

If the ability of the coach was the biggest influence over performance, why aren’t the so called best coaches winning consistently, or on top of the ladder?

Come to think of it, who are the good coaches??

Clarkson, a given - outside the 8
Longmire?? - outside the 8
Chris Scott, is he a good coach or does he have a good team or both??
Who are the other good coaches
Beveridge - hasn’t made the finals since the premiership, which was a season where they finished 7th on the ladder
Hardwick and Buckley were both almost sacked?! We’re they poor coaches who all of a sudden became good?
Don Pyke? Disappointing since 2017
Adam Simpson- wouldn’t you love to coach that list, they don’t have a weakness
Goodwin? Last year yes, this year?
How do you measure them? Wins and losses?? Premierships?

My pick for best coach currently
Clarkson - best tactician
But also rate
Chris Fagan
Great teacher, man manager, communicator

But give either of them a poor team or lots of injuries
They struggle like anyone else

[Special]

Fages is brilliant. He has it.

[JR23]

Lyon is mercenary. Show me the money and I will go. Forget all the blah blah about player loyalty , team , playing for each other etc . Lyon is numero uno as its all about me !!. Which is fine but you know he is a fraud when you hire him. Will go to Blues or somewhere as he doesnt want to be caught up with the disaster Freo are. Fickle .

[SAINT-LEE]

Saint Lee

I didn’t realise Alan Richardson had that much power?

He doesn't.

I think as an over-reaction to the Watters experience that Richo is quite probably the coach with the least say of any of the current AFL coaches.

This is a bad thing.

Sorry but this proves you have zero insight into the club's inner workings.

Richo 100% has input into player structures on field, player development, HE gave a list of names he wanted as assistant coaches when he came and we got them all.

He selects the players each week and has more than a swing vote at the table, although there have been times he was shut down. He doesn't have all power, of course. But he is the team leader. He empowes the culture of the club, the president sets the cultural standard.

[B.M]

That’s clearly incorrect.

[Myron Gaines]

Fagan is like GT without the ego.

[B.M]

Great analogy Myron

And his coaching tenure is mirroring GTs

And both were successful coaches at lower lever Warrnambool and Clarence
And both were football managers before coaching

Fagan a teacher by trade
GT a business man

Hence the ego difference

[SaintPav]

Teachers don’t have egos?!

Fkn spare me.

Most don’t know when to switch off.

[B.M]

Teachers are actually pretty undervalued

They work hard, put up with a lot of crap, don’t get paid much and generally pretty selfless with their time and care a great deal for their students.

Holidays are good though

[saintsRrising]

Saint Lee

I didn’t realise Alan Richardson had that much power?

He doesn't.

I think as an over-reaction to the Watters experience that Richo is quite probably the coach with the least say of any of the current AFL coaches.

This is a bad thing.

Sorry but this proves you have zero insight into the club's inner workings.

Richo 100% has input into player structures on field, player development, HE gave a list of names he wanted as assistant coaches when he came and we got them all.

He selects the players each week and has more than a swing vote at the table, although there have been times he was shut down. He doesn't have all power, of course. But he is the team leader. He empowes the culture of the club, the president sets the cultural standard.

I said least say, not no say.

[B.M]

Explain how one would empower the culture?

And how the president sets the cultural standard? What does AB do set a high performance standard amongst a playing group.


I’d say AR empowers his line coaches and development coaches and leadership group
And Jarryn Geary + leaders set playing/training standards
AB chairs the board which makes or ratifies off field decisions such as new appointments or terminating appointments.