The most overrated thing in footy

[Scollop]

For sure Kingy/Stoney

The Dogs would have won a flag under Richo wouldn't they?

[The Fireman]

Just watched the Doggies roll Girlong ...wow..the Dogs played relentless inspired football , they were fantastic... I can only think that Bevo has played a major part in where they are atm.

They are not a team of champions (except for Bont) they are an inspired well coached team.

[B.M]

Hi Stonecold,

Still claiming you’re a man mountain to try and intimidate people. Not sure how armchair supporters are overrated, or who overrates them, actually that attempt at humour makes little or no sense.

I played the game a little, just 30 years, I did finally retire in 2017 after a should reco.
I’ll tell you this, I had good coaches, I had poor coaches (an ex saint being one) and they made little difference to how I played on the weekend. I just had a crack regardless of what coach I had, and 95% of players are the same, they just see the footy and have a crack. I never have considered who my coach is or what they think if I’m in a contest, didn’t effect me one bit.
Now coaching, and my players make me look good, not the other way around.

[ss1986]

The sum of all parts. Timing is a factor in the sum of all parts. We will have a new coach in 2020. He or she is lucky they didn't turn up in 2014. There will be more pressure on the next coach and the honeymoon period will be real real short as he or she will get the keys to list that is ready to take the next step into being a finals teams. This next trade period will be the most important for us in possibily the last 10 years. Get it wrong and the new coach will be burned on a stake by the haters.

So haters wipe the blood from your knives and return them to thier holsters but keep wearing your holsters for at least 2 more years.

“He or she” - I would absolutely not put it past us to appoint Peta Searle as the first female AFL head coach....

It would be classic new age St.Kilda.

Do you realise that view is sexist.

What part exactly Highett?

An observation that St.Kilda would appoint a female, and would be in keeping with the new version of St.Kilda?

Get ya hand off it.

[whiskers3614]

Absolute farkin garbage. Great clubs have great leaders. We haven't had a greater leader since Riewoldt and Lyon left the club. It starts with the coach and trickles down. Richardson has had 6 years to put something in place and he has failed. The facts are the facts! They are indesputable!
The coach sets the standard and the players follow.

So true,past players,especially Rooney speak very highly of Ross Lyon to this day,and we got results we haven’t had for the past 6 years

One of the things that has made football almost tolerable these last few years is snake oil salesman Lyon's continued pathway to his birthright.Three more years before he replaces Eade as the coach with most games without a flag!

[HighettMan]

The sum of all parts. Timing is a factor in the sum of all parts. We will have a new coach in 2020. He or she is lucky they didn't turn up in 2014. There will be more pressure on the next coach and the honeymoon period will be real real short as he or she will get the keys to list that is ready to take the next step into being a finals teams. This next trade period will be the most important for us in possibily the last 10 years. Get it wrong and the new coach will be burned on a stake by the haters.

So haters wipe the blood from your knives and return them to thier holsters but keep wearing your holsters for at least 2 more years.

“He or she” - I would absolutely not put it past us to appoint Peta Searle as the first female AFL head coach....

It would be classic new age St.Kilda.

Do you realise that view is sexist.

What part exactly Highett?

An observation that St.Kilda would appoint a female, and would be in keeping with the new version of St.Kilda?

Get ya hand off it.

So you don't have a problem with a woman coach?

[HighettMan]

If coaches are so important to the outcome of games, how did we beat Hawthorn this season, when they have the best coach in the AFL and we have the worse and they had premiership players playing? And we were missing our best three players?

Ever played chess? All you need at the end of the game is your King and a couple of extra pawns and you can beat most players if they only have a King and a pawn.

I already posted that we'd done a Bradbury on Hawthorn and we had more fit men in that game. It was an arm wrestle up until half time but Hawks lost James Frawley before half time and Isaac Smith copped a hand injury early in the second quarter. In the middle of the third quarter Ben Stratton was concussed and we were down at that stage by 26 points.

Hawks were staring to feel the strain from injuries and we strated to mount a come back. We also had DMac cop a cuncussion but we had 2 more fit blokes than they did. It was impacting their rotations and when you have guys not getting an opportunity to have a rest it means that fatigue starts impacting their skills. Hawks were dropping marks in their forward line while Juice and Roma were clunking them and kicking goals. We basically fell fell over the line by 5 points

Delusional revisionist simplistic footy fan garble at best. Your trying way too hard at overdoing the overdoing of your agenda to the point you are diluting and reducing the messaging to the point it sounds like you have issues.

We get it. You hate the coach.

Hate is a very strong word and one that I've never used in describing Richo's performance as our head coach or Richo as a leader of our footy department.

As far as all your other ramble is concerned, why don't you just pick up a mirror and have a good hard look at yourself

Type "define hate" into Google.

Feel intense dislike...sounds like how you feel about Alan. Whacky obsessive intense I'd add.

<ban elevated to 1 week for constant negative commentary on a poster>

[ss1986]

The sum of all parts. Timing is a factor in the sum of all parts. We will have a new coach in 2020. He or she is lucky they didn't turn up in 2014. There will be more pressure on the next coach and the honeymoon period will be real real short as he or she will get the keys to list that is ready to take the next step into being a finals teams. This next trade period will be the most important for us in possibily the last 10 years. Get it wrong and the new coach will be burned on a stake by the haters.

So haters wipe the blood from your knives and return them to thier holsters but keep wearing your holsters for at least 2 more years.

“He or she” - I would absolutely not put it past us to appoint Peta Searle as the first female AFL head coach....

It would be classic new age St.Kilda.

Do you realise that view is sexist.

What part exactly Highett?

An observation that St.Kilda would appoint a female, and would be in keeping with the new version of St.Kilda?

Get ya hand off it.

So you don't have a problem with a woman coach?

If she is absolutely the best candidate in the AFL world to coach the team, then 110% fine with me.

At a guess however, I would think the best candidate based on years of experience and understanding of playing at the highest level of the mens game would not be a female or non-gender specified person.

But if there is.... I would back St.Kilda FC to be the ones to set the precedent

[King12]

For sure Kingy/Stoney

The Dogs would have won a flag under Richo wouldn't they?

As stated, over rated!

Fickle supporters, there you are, <edited by mods> there you are!

<1 day ban for commenting negatively on a poster >

[Shaggy]

How’d you compare the list Ross Lyon had (I agree a great match day coach)
And the current list?

Reiwoldt, Goddard, Montagna, Dal Santo, Fisher, Milne, Gardiner, Ball adds up to 16 AA players
Running around with
Baker, Gram, Ray, Schnieder, Kosi, King, Gilbert, Jones,

Currently we have Dan Hannebury who has played 2 games... let’s get real, even the great Ross Lyon missed the finals twice with THOSE players.

Welcome back Big Mart

As you have highlighted above our problem IMO is lack of top-level senior players.

The ladder basically follows the number you have on hand with the exception of Hawthorn and North who are relatively under-performing.

Both Melbourne and Swans lost senior players and plummeted this year. They are now bottom 6 in experience and bottom 6 on the ladder. Recently Richmond is coming good as Collingwood is going through a slow patch. Their fortunes coincide with experienced players in or out.

On Sunday North will be playing 11 players with 100 games or more. We will be playing only 5. All season we have only been playing 4 or 5. Ross and Newnes from the Watters and Lyon eras are the only ones playing tomorrow.

Our recruitment and development from 2007 to 2013 was pathetic and we are really paying the price now because they should be gun AAs today.

[King12]

Look @ me, I'm a fan forum guru, that's okay, I'm still better than Aaron, if you're not sure, Just ask me

Flog of the highest order!

<1 week ban for commenting negatively on another poster / abuse>

[shanegrambeau]

Three more years before he replaces Eade as the coach with most games without a flag!

We'll never know, so I assume the head is important..and the head's image is also important and unimportant things contribute to the image...which impacts the important things, like culture, players wanting to come, etc.,

Eade was good.

Lyon was good.

?ineage, momentum and luck...Jeans>Eade>Lyon + Media Spin + luck..

Alan Jeans couldn't save Richmond but was in charge at Hawthorn with their incredible run. Was Leigh Mathews good? Collingwood was on the slide when he left..and then the Brians won those three..and then Aker said he can't coach..

[Scollop]

Look @ me, I'm a fan forum guru, that's okay, I'm still better than Aaron, if you're not sure, Just ask me

Flog of the highest order!

Priceless. No mirrors at your joint?

[Scollop]

double post

[Scollop]

Three more years before he replaces Eade as the coach with most games without a flag!

We'll never know, so I assume the head is important..and the head's image is also important and unimportant things contribute to the image...which impacts the important things, like culture, players wanting to come, etc.,

Eade was good.

Lyon was good.

?ineage, momentum and luck...Jeans>Eade>Lyon + Media Spin + luck..

Alan Jeans couldn't save Richmond but was in charge at Hawthorn with their incredible run. Was Leigh Mathews good? Collingwood was on the slide when he left..and then the Brians won those three..and then Aker said he can't coach..

I reckon an element of luck certainly plays it's part but for coaches like Jeans or Matthews or Clarkson they have proven themselves over their careers and got their teams to multiple GF's and managed to win multiple cups. Can't be just luck if you win the ultimate more than once

Everyone has a use by date and I reckon even guys like Malthouse and Sheedy and Matthews prove that unless you have the hunger, then it's best that you let someone else take on the role

Alastair Clarkson and John Longmire may never get the chance to coach another grand final if they don't have the hunger either. I think if they are still hungry and still super competitive and super sharp as professionals then they'll probably get there one mor time at least. Same with Beveridge...if he has the hunger he will most probably find a way to get there again

With Ross Lyon, I'm not sure he gives a toss after securing one of the most lucrative contracts in AFL coaching ranks at the time he deserted the Saints...and all on the back of coming second

[B.M]

Stonecold

You used to make sense, what’s happened?

Perhaps the realisation that Billy is actually not any good? I think the evidence suggests, Tom Hickey has ultimately turned out the better player, and Rowan Marshall thankfully is a s***load better than both, and he’s only played 20 games. He actually does what useful ruckmen do, find the footy.

[B.M]

I agree scallop, they are proven coaches who managed their teams well.

Jeans imo coached the best team I have known. Hawthorn 83-91 were unbelievable. Let’s not forget Joyce took them to premiership glory in 88 & 91 so he is a multiple flag winner.
Take too long to list their champions from that era. Jeans had a team at StK that probably should have won multiple flags.

I think Lethals Collingwood win was great in 90, they were a good team but nothing like his Brisbane side with the fab 4 in the middle with Brown, Lynch, Michael, Leppitsch spine. Leigh was no master tactician, but he spoke in simple term and always makes sense. Of course we’ll respected for being the GOAT.

Clarkson I spoke about, great team playing I think three interstate teams to win premierships Freo, Sydney, WCE. A good tactical coach that used his teams kicking ability to advantage. But boy was there some ability in his teams.

On that Hawthorn team, I believe Bolton coached them for 5 weeks for 5 wins. Speaking of keys to the Ferrari.

[desertsaint]

Desert Saint - that’s the exact thinking that makes the coaches influence overrated.

Question,
Who was more influential in Richmond’s Premiership.
Dustin Martin
Or
Damien Hardwick

Why, with the same coach were they so terrible in 2016?

the coach created an effective gameplan - likely a few seasons of tinkering, maybe a more recent brainstorm. it worked for the players he had. throw in a crap coach in 2017 and richmond would have been far less likely to have won than without dusty - i think in neither way would they have won, but in the former scenario they wouldnt even make finals.

[B.M]

He created an effective game plan?

He had a high pressure, move ball forward at all costs defenders press forward, and pressure small forwards to lock the ball i50. Sounds familiar to a GP we had in 2016/17... or even us in 09 or Coll in 2010 or Dogs 2016.

In fact most teams run with a similar plan. Other plan is possesion, which Hawthorn play, or stoppage and numbers back which Sydney and Freo play.

Dusty had probably the best year ever played by a player in 17, and he won the Norm Smith. I think he played a big part. As did Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Lambert and Edwards... they are guns.

Interesting that Brendon Lade was sacked as Mid coach at Richmond after 2016 because their ball movement was too slow, he went to Port who were playing finals and seen as a contender, they went backwards, he then came to us, and our ball movement is far too slow. He was average at Karingal, surprised he got a gig with Richmond, annoyed when he came from 3 seasons of no success to us.

[HighettMan]

Three more years before he replaces Eade as the coach with most games without a flag!

We'll never know, so I assume the head is important..and the head's image is also important and unimportant things contribute to the image...which impacts the important things, like culture, players wanting to come, etc.,

Eade was good.

Lyon was good.

?ineage, momentum and luck...Jeans>Eade>Lyon + Media Spin + luck..

Alan Jeans couldn't save Richmond but was in charge at Hawthorn with their incredible run. Was Leigh Mathews good? Collingwood was on the slide when he left..and then the Brians won those three..and then Aker said he can't coach..

I reckon an element of luck certainly plays it's part but for coaches like Jeans or Matthews or Clarkson they have proven themselves over their careers and got their teams to multiple GF's and managed to win multiple cups. Can't be just luck if you win the ultimate more than once

Everyone has a use by date and I reckon even guys like Malthouse and Sheedy and Matthews prove that unless you have the hunger, then it's best that you let someone else take on the role

Alastair Clarkson and John Longmire may never get the chance to coach another grand final if they don't have the hunger either. I think if they are still hungry and still super competitive and super sharp as professionals then they'll probably get there one mor time at least. Same with Beveridge...if he has the hunger he will most probably find a way to get there again

With Ross Lyon, I'm not sure he gives a toss after securing one of the most lucrative contracts in AFL coaching ranks at the time he deserted the Saints...and all on the back of coming second

Geez you come accross as being clueless about topics within footy and AFL coaches is one of those topics. And/or you just post without thinking.

Freo has assembled a really good list and if it wasn't for seasson ending injuries to key players, 3 in particular they could be in the discussion for top 4 certanties.

But I suppose in your defense you are a lot like the bloke that wrote the fictional story about 2
characters called Jesus and Noah. Ever wondered why there wasn't 2 kangaroos on the ark? I'll give you a hint, it was because the author only created stories about things he could see within a very close proximity to himself at the time.

<already banned commenting negatively on a poster AGAIN>

[st.byron]

Coaching doesn’t make a difference.......meh

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the ... 524gx.html


“..............This is not just a high-energy team playing with intensity dialled up to the next level. North Mark 2 is a different team for a range of measurable reasons that go well beyond just being manic in the contest. They are playing differently.

In the first 10 rounds they were among the sides to kick the ball backwards most. In the games since round 10, New North kick it forwards the third-most of any team. New North also now kick the ball long more than any side in the competition.”

[SaintPav]

He created an effective game plan?

He had a high pressure, move ball forward at all costs defenders press forward, and pressure small forwards to lock the ball i50. Sounds familiar to a GP we had in 2016/17... or even us in 09 or Coll in 2010 or Dogs 2016.

In fact most teams run with a similar plan. Other plan is possesion, which Hawthorn play, or stoppage and numbers back which Sydney and Freo play.

Dusty had probably the best year ever played by a player in 17, and he won the Norm Smith. I think he played a big part. As did Rance, Riewoldt, Cotchin, Lambert and Edwards... they are guns.

Interesting that Brendon Lade was sacked as Mid coach at Richmond after 2016 because their ball movement was too slow, he went to Port who were playing finals and seen as a contender, they went backwards, he then came to us, and our ball movement is far too slow. He was average at Karingal, surprised he got a gig with Richmond, annoyed when he came from 3 seasons of no success to us.

But coaches if coaches are overrated it shouldn't really matter.

[HighettMan]

Coahes are important, so are quality lists in a healthy condition and available for selection.

Gotta have both of these parts at the same time.

This next trade period is arguable the most important in our clubs history, definitely the most important in the past 10 years.

How the club selects the coach is also vitaly important. We need a coach that won't throw the baby out with the bath water and want to re invent the wheel. The succession has to be owned by the club. The list needs 2 to 3 AFL ready mids added to the current crop.

Coach important, but this next trade period arguably more important. Get it wrong and we will implode and be in a full rebuild again and then it won't matter who the coach is, they might as well get another development coach.

[HighettMan]

Coaching doesn’t make a difference.......meh

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the ... 524gx.html


“..............This is not just a high-energy team playing with intensity dialled up to the next level. North Mark 2 is a different team for a range of measurable reasons that go well beyond just being manic in the contest. They are playing differently.

In the first 10 rounds they were among the sides to kick the ball backwards most. In the games since round 10, New North kick it forwards the third-most of any team. New North also now kick the ball long more than any side in the competition.”

You better load up on that Chinese medicine from Nimbin today, you may implode if we spank North.

[The Fireman]

Coaching doesn’t make a difference.......meh

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the ... 524gx.html


“..............This is not just a high-energy team playing with intensity dialled up to the next level. North Mark 2 is a different team for a range of measurable reasons that go well beyond just being manic in the contest. They are playing differently.

In the first 10 rounds they were among the sides to kick the ball backwards most. In the games since round 10, New North kick it forwards the third-most of any team. New North also now kick the ball long more than any side in the competition.”

You better load up on that Chinese medicine from Nimbin today, you may implode if we spank North.

I'm loading up for the hiding we are going to get