The most overrated thing in footy

[takeaway]

I thought Robbo was so crucial to the team that I thought he deserved to win a best and fairest for our club in 2017

His value was so misunderstood by the coach that Seb Ross had a massive 35 more votes than Dylan in the best and fairest, and Robbo only just beat Jarryn Geary by 3 votes in the Trevor Barker Award for 2017.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93920&p=1703093&hil ... r#p1703093

Most of the regulars who posted in that topic also thought Steele was going to poll ok that year, but Richo thought otherwise

So that's all Richo's fault as well? Even though he is only one of 5 coaches at the club that submit votes independently for the TB medal? What a bugger - he must have requested all the other coaches to submit their votes through him so he could alter them. That's shocking.
Unbelievable.

[Yorkeys]

So where does it rank? What's most under rated? Say coach is only in the top 5 tingos, its still important, no? Most under rated - I'd say a good CEO.

I'd like to know how we are going on the most important factors if a coach isn't one. I know how we are going CEO wise - extend that man, he is a solid citizen - and coaching is over rated; agree Hawthorn?

As for injuries - the only two I can think of that might be to players who may have been potential match winners are those to Paddy and Hannebery. But both were known to have pre-existing serious issues and neither had played outstanding for a while. That's not luck, that's risky selection. Carslisle has always been solid not controlling and has had back problems even before we won him. Roberton was excellent, but a back pocket.

Conversely Battle and Marshal have been revelations. But some people will hold beliefs despite whatever contrary evidence there is. Alan a good coach? should be sacked just for the negative impact on sponsorship and recruitment, let alone his less than stellar win loss record. Yes I know winning isn't everything, we made M. Murphy feel better.

[Greg T]

Absolute farkin garbage. Great clubs have great leaders. We haven't had a greater leader since Riewoldt and Lyon left the club. It starts with the coach and trickles down. Richardson has had 6 years to put something in place and he has failed. The facts are the facts! They are indesputable!
The coach sets the standard and the players follow.

So true,past players,especially Rooney speak very highly of Ross Lyon to this day,and we got results we haven’t had for the past 6 years

[WellardSaint]

Dont forget virtue signalling , A huge focus of our club in 2018

Gender fluid toilets.
And that stupid 'sorry Carlton' about Murphygate when our captain was pressured to apologise. What the F
Get us into top4 status like Cats etc
then the club can bloody do all the SJW they like

[desertsaint]

The coach is the single most important individual at the club in regards to onfield success. it matters.

[B.M]

How’d you compare the list Ross Lyon had (I agree a great match day coach)
And the current list?

Reiwoldt, Goddard, Montagna, Dal Santo, Fisher, Milne, Gardiner, Ball adds up to 16 AA players
Running around with
Baker, Gram, Ray, Schnieder, Kosi, King, Gilbert, Jones,

Currently we have Dan Hannebury who has played 2 games... let’s get real, even the great Ross Lyon missed the finals twice with THOSE players.

Where do I rate coaching in the scheme of things, very important of course, but without talented players you can have Norm Smith or John Kennedy leading and it wouldn’t matter
You can’t turn s*** into strawberry jam. There are numerous examples of great coaches getting made look terrible by poor teams, I’ve outlined those.

In order of importance
Players, can’t win without talent
Recruiting, who brings in the talent with good/correct decisions
Senior coach, leadership, direction, feedback. Senior Coach needs to able to manage.
Fitness/medical staff
Assistant coaches, need to be able to strategise and then analyse on the run
Development coaches, to teach the talent how to play position in League footy
Support Staff, to make sure the players are prepared to train and play

All of these things are important, and working together in one direction for success.

If coaches are so important to the outcome of games, how did we beat Hawthorn this season, when they have the best coach in the AFL and we have the worse and they had premiership players playing? And we were missing our best three players?

[desertsaint]

are you going to apply for the job? convince the board it really doesn't matter - you'll fail but at far less cost than a better qualified coach?

[HighettMan]

I thought Robbo was so crucial to the team that I thought he deserved to win a best and fairest for our club in 2017

His value was so misunderstood by the coach that Seb Ross had a massive 35 more votes than Dylan in the best and fairest, and Robbo only just beat Jarryn Geary by 3 votes in the Trevor Barker Award for 2017.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=93920&p=1703093&hil ... r#p1703093

Most of the regulars who posted in that topic also thought Steele was going to poll ok that year, but Richo thought otherwise

Like I said, very misunderstood. The fact your simplistic fan view misunderstands it the most doesn't surprise.

Do you still get the HS delivered?

[B.M]

Not sure I said coaching doesn’t matter, perhaps read the context.

What I’m saying is AR is not the only thing wrong with StK at the moment, and isn’t to blame for every failing.

What has put us in this predicament
Lack of talent, who’s fault is that? I’d say two people and also bad luck with injuries
Then
Lack of quality coaching ... but apparently Brett Ratten had single handedly turned that around this season when we were winning, but the AR then made us lose games?

Did anyone seriously think we could play finals this season without the following for the majority of the season.
Carlisle, Steven, Hannebury, Geary, Roberton, Lonie (just as he came good), McCartin, King, Webster, and
That’s the captain, the three highest paid players, two top draft picks, two of the best defenders. Having little impact at all.
I’m actually surprised Sandringham have won at all, let alone been competitive?!

Just as an aside

Richmond - a top 4 list, have had injuries, lost 3 in a row, got seven players back against us and looked a class above. Today won by 92 against an inferior team. But three weeks ago, they were supposedly struggling?? Amazing what Cotchin, Edwards, Lambert, Astbury coming back in does, and how average they (and Hardwick) looked when they were out. And that’s a top 4 list.

[The Fireman]

overrated ? maybe, maybe not...... But I'll take a new coach just to find out.

[BarryGrogan]

But dude, we beat Gold Coast by 2 points.

We have better players than them. But our system was still pathetic.

[B.M]

Desert Saint - that’s the exact thinking that makes the coaches influence overrated.

Question,
Who was more influential in Richmond’s Premiership.
Dustin Martin
Or
Damien Hardwick

Why, with the same coach were they so terrible in 2016?

[HighettMan]

Not sure I said coaching doesn’t matter, perhaps read the context.

When you have and anchored mindset you miss these points made.

I'm always saying it's the sum of all parts when I counter the claim Alan is to blame for everything wrong at the club or poor performances and losses.

Absolutely the head coach matters but so do the others parts of the sum.

And timing is one of the parts.

History proves that nearly every premiership "CLUB" have been able to time the parts being successful and coming together on the last game in September.

So it's why I believe this trade period is arguably the most crucial in the last decade. Get it wrong and we could undo all of the good work that's been done to this point and obviously we also need to get the selection right for the new coach but get the trade period wrong and it wont matter if Clarko is the coach becuase he'll be reduced to a rebuild coach.

So BM who would be your pick for our new coach and why and how do you believe he can improve on Alan.

[samuraisaint]

How’d you compare the list Ross Lyon had (I agree a great match day coach)
And the current list?

Reiwoldt, Goddard, Montagna, Dal Santo, Fisher, Milne, Gardiner, Ball adds up to 16 AA players
Running around with
Baker, Gram, Ray, Schnieder, Kosi, King, Gilbert, Jones,

Currently we have Dan Hannebury who has played 2 games... let’s get real, even the great Ross Lyon missed the finals twice with THOSE players.

Where do I rate coaching in the scheme of things, very important of course, but without talented players you can have Norm Smith or John Kennedy leading and it wouldn’t matter
You can’t turn s*** into strawberry jam. There are numerous examples of great coaches getting made look terrible by poor teams, I’ve outlined those.

In order of importance
Players, can’t win without talent
Recruiting, who brings in the talent with good/correct decisions
Senior coach, leadership, direction, feedback. Senior Coach needs to able to manage.
Fitness/medical staff
Assistant coaches, need to be able to strategise and then analyse on the run
Development coaches, to teach the talent how to play position in League footy
Support Staff, to make sure the players are prepared to train and play

All of these things are important, and working together in one direction for success.

If coaches are so important to the outcome of games, how did we beat Hawthorn this season, when they have the best coach in the AFL and we have the worse and they had premiership players playing? And we were missing our best three players?

No, he didn't (miss the finals twice). He only missed the finals once - we finished ninth - just outside the top eight.

[B.M]

You’re right samurai, they won 12 in 2011 and made finals, knocked out week one by Sydney.

[skeptic]

So BM, where do you stand on Richo’s performance as our coach?

[ss1986]

The sum of all parts. Timing is a factor in the sum of all parts. We will have a new coach in 2020. He or she is lucky they didn't turn up in 2014. There will be more pressure on the next coach and the honeymoon period will be real real short as he or she will get the keys to list that is ready to take the next step into being a finals teams. This next trade period will be the most important for us in possibily the last 10 years. Get it wrong and the new coach will be burned on a stake by the haters.

So haters wipe the blood from your knives and return them to thier holsters but keep wearing your holsters for at least 2 more years.

“He or she” - I would absolutely not put it past us to appoint Peta Searle as the first female AFL head coach....

It would be classic new age St.Kilda.

[Scollop]

If coaches are so important to the outcome of games, how did we beat Hawthorn this season, when they have the best coach in the AFL and we have the worse and they had premiership players playing? And we were missing our best three players?

Ever played chess? All you need at the end of the game is your King and a couple of extra pawns and you can beat most players if they only have a King and a pawn.

I already posted that we'd done a Bradbury on Hawthorn and we had more fit men in that game. It was an arm wrestle up until half time but Hawks lost James Frawley before half time and Isaac Smith copped a hand injury early in the second quarter. In the middle of the third quarter Ben Stratton was concussed and we were down at that stage by 26 points.

Hawks were staring to feel the strain from injuries and we strated to mount a come back. We also had DMac cop a cuncussion but we had 2 more fit blokes than they did. It was impacting their rotations and when you have guys not getting an opportunity to have a rest it means that fatigue starts impacting their skills. Hawks were dropping marks in their forward line while Juice and Roma were clunking them and kicking goals. We basically fell fell over the line by 5 points

[HighettMan]

If coaches are so important to the outcome of games, how did we beat Hawthorn this season, when they have the best coach in the AFL and we have the worse and they had premiership players playing? And we were missing our best three players?

Ever played chess? All you need at the end of the game is your King and a couple of extra pawns and you can beat most players if they only have a King and a pawn.

I already posted that we'd done a Bradbury on Hawthorn and we had more fit men in that game. It was an arm wrestle up until half time but Hawks lost James Frawley before half time and Isaac Smith copped a hand injury early in the second quarter. In the middle of the third quarter Ben Stratton was concussed and we were down at that stage by 26 points.

Hawks were staring to feel the strain from injuries and we strated to mount a come back. We also had DMac cop a cuncussion but we had 2 more fit blokes than they did. It was impacting their rotations and when you have guys not getting an opportunity to have a rest it means that fatigue starts impacting their skills. Hawks were dropping marks in their forward line while Juice and Roma were clunking them and kicking goals. We basically fell fell over the line by 5 points

Delusional revisionist simplistic footy fan garble at best. Your trying way too hard at overdoing the overdoing of your agenda to the point you are diluting and reducing the messaging to the point it sounds like you have issues.

We get it. You hate the coach.

<1 day ban commenting negatively on a poster>

[B.M]

We are not the only team to beat Hawthorn

They are a mediocre team, with no key forwards and a sluggish midfield and a few overrated premiership players, that’s why we beat them and why other teams have done so.

Clarkson is a brilliant coach, they will not make the finals again. Hence, list quality + no injuries = wins

[HighettMan]

The sum of all parts. Timing is a factor in the sum of all parts. We will have a new coach in 2020. He or she is lucky they didn't turn up in 2014. There will be more pressure on the next coach and the honeymoon period will be real real short as he or she will get the keys to list that is ready to take the next step into being a finals teams. This next trade period will be the most important for us in possibily the last 10 years. Get it wrong and the new coach will be burned on a stake by the haters.

So haters wipe the blood from your knives and return them to thier holsters but keep wearing your holsters for at least 2 more years.

“He or she” - I would absolutely not put it past us to appoint Peta Searle as the first female AFL head coach....

It would be classic new age St.Kilda.

Do you realise that view is sexist.

[Scollop]

If coaches are so important to the outcome of games, how did we beat Hawthorn this season, when they have the best coach in the AFL and we have the worse and they had premiership players playing? And we were missing our best three players?

Ever played chess? All you need at the end of the game is your King and a couple of extra pawns and you can beat most players if they only have a King and a pawn.

I already posted that we'd done a Bradbury on Hawthorn and we had more fit men in that game. It was an arm wrestle up until half time but Hawks lost James Frawley before half time and Isaac Smith copped a hand injury early in the second quarter. In the middle of the third quarter Ben Stratton was concussed and we were down at that stage by 26 points.

Hawks were staring to feel the strain from injuries and we strated to mount a come back. We also had DMac cop a cuncussion but we had 2 more fit blokes than they did. It was impacting their rotations and when you have guys not getting an opportunity to have a rest it means that fatigue starts impacting their skills. Hawks were dropping marks in their forward line while Juice and Roma were clunking them and kicking goals. We basically fell fell over the line by 5 points

Delusional revisionist simplistic footy fan garble at best. Your trying way too hard at overdoing the overdoing of your agenda to the point you are diluting and reducing the messaging to the point it sounds like you have issues.

We get it. You hate the coach.

Hate is a very strong word and one that I've never used in describing Richo's performance as our head coach or Richo as a leader of our footy department.

As far as all your other ramble is concerned, why don't you just pick up a mirror and have a good hard look at yourself

[Scollop]

We are not the only team to beat Hawthorn

They are a mediocre team, with no key forwards and a sluggish midfield and a few overrated premiership players, that’s why we beat them and why other teams have done so.

Clarkson is a brilliant coach, they will not make the finals again. Hence, list quality + no injuries = wins

You made the original post and asked the question about Hawthorn and why we beat them. Forget about generalising

Watch the last quarter again if you are having trouble remembering the match

I answered your question with the specifics and referred to facts that occured in that specific match.

Is Geelong going to play finals this year? Are they mediocre? Is their list poor and do they lack key forwards and star quality in their midfield?

Coaches do matter

[King12]

The most over rated thing in footy?

It's the numpty armchair supporters who have quite clearly have never had the courage to play the game, full stop!

It's also easy to identify!

[King12]

The most over rated thing in footy?

It's the numpty armchair supporters who have quite clearly have never had the courage to play the game, full stop!

It's also easy to identify!