Let's talk Finals

[saintspremiers]

The only thing that can save Richo now is Winx.

If he decides to play the great horse, and the horse is unstoppable, not only will it help us chalk up wins but watch our crowd numbers spike.

btw I hope they resist temptation and keep him in the magoos for a bit yet.

[Ghost Like]

The comment that has been made regularly since yesterday's game is the one that staggers me and it is this one: "I'm happy with the win but I'm not happy how we played".

Made without much footy knowledge is the only thing that explains it.

I mean absolutely it was a game to forget but what where the pelicans expecting, it was already a team decimated by injury and then was further challenged by 7 changes.

For 18 months now it's been impossible to settle a side to play together consistently and develop some understanding and cohesion. It's easier to execute a game plan when you have players who can form the required structures and can then execute it.

The way we played was symptomatic of a very inexperienced team that hadn't played much footy together long enough to get the system going.

But clearly after half time they got it going and that is what makes me think the coaches and playere are still committed to the cause and each other. Who cares how the hell they played.

I see nothing wrong with that comment in isolation. I think you'll find that's a sentiment shared by many professional sports people and coaches. They acknowledge the win but more importantly realise there's a lot more work that needs to be done.

First you call out people that weren't happy we won, fair enough, these 'supporters' should be called out.

Now you call out those happy with a win but desire to see a better brand, better skills, better system. I see nothing wrong with wanting all that whilst still being able to win.

What staggers me is that a team with so much change over two weeks was able to "get the system going" after playing half a game of football together. If they could do that in half a game why were they unable to do it in the preceding 18 months? That I think is what confuses and disappoints most people if what you say is correct.

You say you're a believer in the sum of all parts, as am I but those parts also need to be addressed in isolation to ensure they work with the other. Yesterday's game was probably an example of when they don't work together, the first half & when they do, the second half. I am over watching examples like the first half.

There has to be a better combination of all facets and am looking forward to that being addressed at years end.

[SuperDuper]

Carlisle for Marsh
Steven for Clark
Steele for Armo
Webster for McKenzie
Hannabury for Newnes

these are all massive improvements that could occur in the next two-three weeks.
A far far stronger team.

lets get behind them and see how they can go

[Special]

Carlisle for Marsh
Steven for Clark
Steele for Armo
Webster for McKenzie
Hannabury for Newnes

these are all massive improvements that could occur in the next two-three weeks.
A far far stronger team.

lets get behind them and see how they can go

Newnes won’t be dropped.

It’s in the bible

[HighettMan]

The comment that has been made regularly since yesterday's game is the one that staggers me and it is this one: "I'm happy with the win but I'm not happy how we played".

Made without much footy knowledge is the only thing that explains it.

I mean absolutely it was a game to forget but what where the pelicans expecting, it was already a team decimated by injury and then was further challenged by 7 changes.

For 18 months now it's been impossible to settle a side to play together consistently and develop some understanding and cohesion. It's easier to execute a game plan when you have players who can form the required structures and can then execute it.

The way we played was symptomatic of a very inexperienced team that hadn't played much footy together long enough to get the system going.

But clearly after half time they got it going and that is what makes me think the coaches and playere are still committed to the cause and each other. Who cares how the hell they played.

I see nothing wrong with that comment in isolation. I think you'll find that's a sentiment shared by many professional sports people and coaches. They acknowledge the win but more importantly realise there's a lot more work that needs to be done.

First you call out people that weren't happy we won, fair enough, these 'supporters' should be called out.

Now you call out those happy with a win but desire to see a better brand, better skills, better system. I see nothing wrong with wanting all that whilst still being able to win.

What staggers me is that a team with so much change over two weeks was able to "get the system going" after playing half a game of football together. If they could do that in half a game why were they unable to do it in the preceding 18 months? That I think is what confuses and disappoints most people if what you say is correct.

You say you're a believer in the sum of all parts, as am I but those parts also need to be addressed in isolation to ensure they work with the other. Yesterday's game was probably an example of when they don't work together, the first half & when they do, the second half. I am over watching examples like the first half.

There has to be a better combination of all facets and am looking forward to that being addressed at years end.

I wasn't considering it in isolation. The context I was using is completely different to your point.

Your expectations seem to lack an understanding of football and/or team sport knowledge.

[BarryGrogan]

The only thing that can save Richo now is Winx.

If he decides to play the great horse, and the horse is unstoppable, not only will it help us chalk up wins but watch our crowd numbers spike.

btw I hope they resist temptation and keep him in the magoos for a bit yet.

I think people need to manage their expectations of King.

The dude has kicked 11 goals in 5 weeks, in the VFL.

He's hardly John Coleman.


I expect he'll be a star, but in about 2-3 years.

[Ghost Like]

I wasn't considering it in isolation. The context I was using is completely different to your point.

Your expectations seem to lack an understanding of football and/or team sport knowledge.

Are you able to elaborate firstly on your context and secondly where my understanding is lacking?

[HighettMan]

I wasn't considering it in isolation. The context I was using is completely different to your point.

Your expectations seem to lack an understanding of football and/or team sport knowledge.

Are you able to elaborate firstly on your context and secondly where my understanding is lacking?

Comment was made mostly by coach haters saving face.

Your view about the signficant changes and taking 2 quarters to get going.

[Ghost Like]

Yep, I see your point in regards to the context. I figured that was what you were angling at as you made that in various topics started after Saturday's game.

I'll respectively disagree on the second simply because you'd asked in another thread what caused the turnaround for the second half. I watched the game again last night and my belief is that our better players stood up whilst others broke even. The Suns had a very tall side and failed to capiralise on that before they tired. We still butchered the ball but had more time to make amends. I saw no evidence of the new seven gelling with the other 15, just as i saw no evidence of them failing to gell in the first half.

All those players on Saturday have been training together since November so all should be well versed in our patterns and positioning. We had the better players on the park and the Suns had failed to put us away in the first half.

[HighettMan]

Yep, I see your point in regards to the context. I figured that was what you were angling at as you made that in various topics started after Saturday's game.

I'll respectively disagree on the second simply because you'd asked in another thread what caused the turnaround for the second half. I watched the game again last night and my belief is that our better players stood up whilst others broke even. The Suns had a very tall side and failed to capiralise on that before they tired. We still butchered the ball but had more time to make amends. I saw no evidence of the new seven gelling with the other 15, just as i saw no evidence of them failing to gell in the first half.

All those players on Saturday have been training together since November so all should be well versed in our patterns and positioning. We had the better players on the park and the Suns had failed to put us away in the first half.

So no concessions at all for mitigating circumstances.

Who is your pick for the new coach and how do you know what his strengths are?

[BarryGrogan]

What staggers me is that a team with so much change over two weeks was able to "get the system going" after playing half a game of football together. If they could do that in half a game why were they unable to do it in the preceding 18 months? That I think is what confuses and disappoints most people if what you say is correct.

My issue is this.

The system.

Whe we get 'our system going' it still results in 70-80 point scores, botched forward entry after botched forward entry, mediocre individual performances and at best, uninspiring close wins against weak teams.

I reckon there's been three games max., over the past 6 years where I've thought 'ahhh Ok, the system works. There's substance there.'

[Ghost Like]

None HM, only because all clubs will have mitigating circumstances. St Kilda has a more advanced list than the Suns, all things being equal they should have beaten them. A mitigating circumstance would be a number of injuries during a game, particularly in the first half, either to important players or just restricting rotations or options.

I don't know who is going to make themselves available and I won't have the opportunity to interview them to find out. Whoever they choose will have my support and my membership.

[HighettMan]

None HM, only because all clubs will have mitigating circumstances. St Kilda has a more advanced list than the Suns, all things being equal they should have beaten them. A mitigating circumstance would be a number of injuries during a game, particularly in the first half, either to important players or just restricting rotations or options.

I don't know who is going to make themselves available and I won't have the opportunity to interview them to find out. Whoever they choose will have my support and my membership.

Intersting. So we wont to change coahes even if there isn't an upgrade available and the replacement could be worse than the incumbent.

We can pick holes in the current bloke but we don't have a clue on who could do a better job.

One thing's for sure. The turn around on Saturday wouldn't have happened if the coaches and players weren't working together.

[Ghost Like]

What staggers me is that a team with so much change over two weeks was able to "get the system going" after playing half a game of football together. If they could do that in half a game why were they unable to do it in the preceding 18 months? That I think is what confuses and disappoints most people if what you say is correct.

My issue is this.

The system.

Whe we get 'our system going' it still results in 70-80 point scores, botched forward entry after botched forward entry, mediocre individual performances and at best, uninspiring close wins against weak teams.

I reckon there's been three games max., over the past 6 years where I've thought 'ahhh Ok, the system works. There's substance there.'




.

I guess that is where one or more of the parts is not working or is simply wrong Baz.

Would we better with a strong marking forward to straighten us up? Would a 3 tall forward line help or a smaller one, feeding off the contest if they know how the ball is going to come in?

Is that instruction? Is that repetitive training? Is that player understanding and development?

Is it midfielders and half backs who can identify and then execute their delivery?

Would our forwards look better with better delivery?

Would our midfielders look better with better forwards?

Would our system look better with a different coach?

Would our coach look better with different players?

Something is not adding up in the sum of our parts. What is it? Coaching? Recruitment? Development? Culture? One or more is broken. Time for the club to fix it, not just hope.

[Ghost Like]

None HM, only because all clubs will have mitigating circumstances. St Kilda has a more advanced list than the Suns, all things being equal they should have beaten them. A mitigating circumstance would be a number of injuries during a game, particularly in the first half, either to important players or just restricting rotations or options.

I don't know who is going to make themselves available and I won't have the opportunity to interview them to find out. Whoever they choose will have my support and my membership.

Intersting. So we wont to change coahes even if there isn't an upgrade available and the replacement could be worse than the incumbent.

We can pick holes in the current bloke but we don't have a clue on who could do a better job.

One thing's for sure. The turn around on Saturday wouldn't have happened if the coaches and players weren't working together.

Totally agree HM. I think if you could do or not do that with any certainty there would be 18 flag favourites going into every season. Richmond don't regret holding on to Hardwick. The Western Bulldogs don't regret changing to Beveridge. Only time holds the answer. In my opinion 6 years is enough time without finals.

Yes, the players and the coach did work together on Saturday, they work together every round.

[Ghost Like]

Do you think Collingwood regret changing to Buckley?

[BarryGrogan]

What staggers me is that a team with so much change over two weeks was able to "get the system going" after playing half a game of football together. If they could do that in half a game why were they unable to do it in the preceding 18 months? That I think is what confuses and disappoints most people if what you say is correct.

My issue is this.

The system.

Whe we get 'our system going' it still results in 70-80 point scores, botched forward entry after botched forward entry, mediocre individual performances and at best, uninspiring close wins against weak teams.

I reckon there's been three games max., over the past 6 years where I've thought 'ahhh Ok, the system works. There's substance there.'




.

I guess that is where one or more of the parts is not working or is simply wrong Baz.

Would we better with a strong marking forward to straighten us up? Would a 3 tall forward line help or a smaller one, feeding off the contest if they know how the ball is going to come in?

Is that instruction? Is that repetitive training? Is that player understanding and development?

Is it midfielders and half backs who can identify and then execute their delivery?

Would our forwards look better with better delivery?

Would our midfielders look better with better forwards?

Would our system look better with a different coach?

Would our coach look better with different players?

Something is not adding up in the sum of our parts. What is it? Coaching? Recruitment? Development? Culture? One or more is broken. Time for the club to fix it, not just hope.

And if we're still asking these exact same questions after 6 years - then it's clear what the answer is.

[Scollop]

And if we're still asking these exact same questions after 6 years - then it's clear what the answer is.

Maybe Richo lost the players at some point in the last 2 years and basically they don't buy-in to the coaches message and don't embrace the gameplan and the team selections. It's difficult to believe the coach when his results and credibility as a leader are in question

When the team get to a situation where they are 5 goals down as we were against the Suns, caution is thrown out the window and we play more of a natural aussie rules game with a more direct route to goals.

When we fall so far behind in games, you have no option but to play attacking footy. They free their minds of all the planning meetings and gameplan strategy, tension and stress is released and you just play more aggressively.

I think the win should give the players a lot of confidence for the game against Brisbane. I think we must tag Neale and we can match the rest of them

[freely]

Well, surely Brisbane is the biggest improver of the season. If, as many suggest, we do indeed manage to match it with Brisbane, we'll be doing all right.

[HighettMan]

Well, surely Brisbane is the biggest improver of the season. If, as many suggest, we do indeed manage to match it with Brisbane, we'll be doing all right.

I reckon Brisbane will be the team we displace from the 8.

[Brunswicksainter]

We have to many hacks on our list to make finals and if we somehow do we will be the worse team in it by a country mile. That being said I think we have outperformed this year considering injuries... ultimately the lack of talent on our list will probably catch up with us though.

[saynta]

We have to many hacks on our list to make finals and if we somehow do we will be the worse team in it by a country mile. That being said I think we have outperformed this year considering injuries... ultimately the lack of talent on our list will probably catch up with us though.

Which team is it that you support again?

[Brunswicksainter]

We have to many hacks on our list to make finals and if we somehow do we will be the worse team in it by a country mile. That being said I think we have outperformed this year considering injuries... ultimately the lack of talent on our list will probably catch up with us though.

Which team is it that you support again?

Sorry... We have a really good list made up of many all Australians, final experienced players and A graders! Does being delusional make me a fan??

[saynta]

We have to many hacks on our list to make finals and if we somehow do we will be the worse team in it by a country mile. That being said I think we have outperformed this year considering injuries... ultimately the lack of talent on our list will probably catch up with us though.

Which team is it that you support again?

Sorry... We have a really good list made up of many all Australians, final experienced players and A graders! Does being delusional make me a fan??

25 posts mostly denigrating saints players.

[Brunswicksainter]

We have to many hacks on our list to make finals and if we somehow do we will be the worse team in it by a country mile. That being said I think we have outperformed this year considering injuries... ultimately the lack of talent on our list will probably catch up with us though.

Which team is it that you support again?

Sorry... We have a really good list made up of many all Australians, final experienced players and A graders! Does being delusional make me a fan??

25 posts mostly denigrating saints players.

No not necessarily, my negative posts on this forum have been predominately focused on criticising a small handful of players (Longer and Lonie being chief among these). Am I not entitled to an opinion because it is negative?