Match thread, Port in Shanghai

[Ape_Man]

Sack the Muppets and the puppets

It’s time to get things started

[SuperDuper]

Marshall is elite, how long before this club destroys him...new coach now

Marshall is the best player on our list, hands down. How they dropped him at the start of the year is pure madness.

Yes, Richo has no idea how to even judge the players. Brandon White is another example. He will be a star elsewhere because Richo does not rate him. A joke that Phillips, Coffield, Joyce, Young, Newnes etc are playing ahead of him. Equally as crazy as playing Pierce ahead of Marshall in round 1. I mean blind Freddy can see who the better player is.

[bigcarl]

Last six matches points for : 68, 70, 70, 71, 69, 68. Truly Lyonesque.

Eleven games. 9 or 10 goals in nine of them.

The forward line needs a lot of work. Match after match we are not getting reward for effort. Plenty of inside 50s, usually plenty of scoring shots ... but under pressure and crowded.

Open it up FFS.

Richo is dreaming if he thinks those sorts of scores will get us into finals and shore up his employment prospects.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Carlisle, when he comes back, should be played mainly forward and giving Marshall a hand as second ruck.

[The Fireman]

I'm tipping we won't be picking up too many Chinese members

[mbogo]

There are no leads or structures, make leads, run, move .. Everything is so static

[Sainter_Dad]

There are no leads or structures, make leads, run, move .. Everything is so static

The forwards can't lead, because they are too busy being the link up players - to be successful we need whole team defence - ie 18 players to cover their 12 and that leaves them 6 to take the intercept marks and/or clog the forward line.

[Devilhead]

That was a bad loss - In excusable!

If they cough up this s*** in Townsville .....

Either way 5 & 6 at the break .... most probably thought 3 & 8 or worse

Will they rush Hanners in?

Does King play against his brother?

[degruch]

That was a bad loss - In excusable!

If they cough up this s*** in Townsville .....

Either way 5 & 6 at the break .... most probably thought 3 & 8 or worse

Will they rush Hanners in?

Does King play against his brother?

Neither of those things should happen...but in the current environment, you can just see it.

[The Fireman]

can't wait to here from the usual peanuts defending the Coach.
The virus excuses etc.. these posters are a blight on this forum and the club.
it's these type of supporters that are accepting garbage and not asking more of the club.
wish I was admin here for a day.
clean the garbage out.

[BarryGrogan]

What bothers me about the recruiting theory is that apparently it’s reasonable to think that we have got it sooooo incredibly wrong each and every time

Getting the draft picks wrong is one thing ... going for Mc Cartin over DeGoey is forgivable.
The draft is a lucky dip.

But the successful teams also recruit/poach established, young A grade big fish in their prime, or approaching their prime.

We don’t ... and we need to start.

We have 10 half back flankers who at $200,000 each cost more than 2 AA half back flankers ... you only are going to play 2. Same with our inside midfielders - why have half a dozen on $300,000 each when you’re only ever going to play 2 inside midfielders.
Quantity costs more than quality ... it’s a false economy.
We’re maxing out our salary cap on average players ... and just doubling and tripling up on them.

We have the lowest ranked midfield, with poor skills, and are not concentrating on recruiting quality elite-skilled midfielders. We have been getting our recruiting “incredibly wrong” ... and it’s not a theory!

Who could have we recruited that we didn't?

[samoht]

BarryGrogan...

Over the last 10-12 years, we could have gone after and landed/ poached a number of quality A grade big fish.

Are we talking to Coniglio right now? The Hawks are - even though our bottom ranked midfield needs him more.

Can you see the logic of 6 very average ruckmen on $200,000 each, 6 very average inside midfielders on $300,000 each and 10 very average hb flankers on $200,000 each?

You’re only ever going to play 1 ruckman, 2 inside midfielders (maybe even 1) and 2 half back flankers - why not concentrate on getting A grade quality in each case?
We prefer C grade quantity ... and wasting our salary cap on surplus capacity.

Quality actually costs less than quantity.
The successful teams know this.

Our recruiting needs to sharpen up ... we have a lot of catching up to do.
We need to target ... and go after quality.

[skeptic]

What bothers me about the recruiting theory is that apparently it’s reasonable to think that we have got it sooooo incredibly wrong each and every time

Getting the draft picks wrong is one thing ... going for Mc Cartin over DeGoey is forgivable.
The draft is a lucky dip.

But the successful teams also recruit/poach established, young A grade big fish in their prime, or approaching their prime.

We don’t ... and we need to start.

We have 10 half back flankers who at $200,000 each cost more than 2 AA half back flankers ... you only are going to play 2. Same with our inside midfielders - why have half a dozen on $300,000 each when you’re only ever going to play 2 inside midfielders.
Quantity costs more than quality ... it’s a false economy.
We’re maxing out our salary cap on average players ... and just doubling and tripling up on them.

We have the lowest ranked midfield, with poor skills, and are not concentrating on recruiting quality elite-skilled midfielders. We have been getting our recruiting “incredibly wrong” ... and it’s not a theory!

I don’t disagree with any of that...
My issue is that this type of argument has for far too long been used to absolve the coach of any responsibility for development
A) I find it hard to believe that we’ve drafted 10 HBF or thereabouts and not been able to pick one that could/should be AA. For far too long we’ve seen that we’re picking picking kids that start well and have equal if not better attributes then players also taken around the same time
B) why do we have 10 HBF, an abundance of slower, less skilled mids, 3 rucks, about 30 forward pockets, and SFA classy outside mids and classy fast mids.

That’s not just drafting... that’s part of a plan. Clubs use drafts in addition to trading to address the needs of the last... basic armchair level strategy. But we do it poorly.

That’s my gripe.

I’m tired of watching us not recruit adequate rucks and trying to play Bruce as a back up = bad strategy
Tired of not recruiting classy mids and trying to make Gresh that guy when he’s the most damaging FP we have and then we play guys like Kent in the team.

[BarryGrogan]

BarryGrogan...

Over the last 10-12 years, we could have gone after and landed/ poached a number of quality A grade big fish.

Are we talking to Coniglio right now? The Hawks are - even though our bottom ranked midfield needs him more.

Can you see the logic of 6 ruckmen on $200,000 each, 6 inside midfielders on $300,000 each and 10 hb flankers on $200,000 each?

You’re only ever going to play 1 ruckman, 2 inside midfielders and 2 half back flankers - why not concentrate on getting A grade quality in each case?
We prefer C grade quantity ... and wasting our salary cap on surplus capacity.

Quality actually costs less than quantity.
The successful teams know this.

Our recruiting needs to sharpen up ... we have a lot of catching up to do.

My understanding is that we've tried hard to get Martin, Fyfe, Kelly, O'Meara and Shiel that we know of.

We went after Carlisle and Hannebury.


The problem is, we don't play 'block busters', so guys like Treloar and Shiel say no.
We dont have any sort of 'go home' advantage, so guys like Ablett and Dangerfield arent interested.
We don't get a salary cap advantage worth mentioning due to the 15% increase introduced two years back.
We aren't a contender, so guys like Fyfe and Kelly are better off staying put.

And, we have a plodder of a coach that has shown zero evidence of nurturing a player's talent - so about 10 clubs have an advantage over us in that regard.

We try to get the big guns. But we have pretty close to f*** all chance of cutting the lunch of almost every other club.


Wirh Dew at the Gold Coast, I'd imagine most of their young guys would stay there rather than play under Richo.

[skeptic]

BarryGrogan...

Over the last 10-12 years, we could have gone after and landed/ poached a number of quality A grade big fish.

Are we talking to Coniglio right now? The Hawks are - even though our bottom ranked midfield needs him more.

Can you see the logic of 6 ruckmen on $200,000 each, 6 inside midfielders on $300,000 each and 10 hb flankers on $200,000 each?

You’re only ever going to play 1 ruckman, 2 inside midfielders and 2 half back flankers - why not concentrate on getting A grade quality in each case?
We prefer C grade quantity ... and wasting our salary cap on surplus capacity.

Quality actually costs less than quantity.
The successful teams know this.

Our recruiting needs to sharpen up ... we have a lot of catching up to do.

My understanding is that we've tried hard to get Martin, Fyfe, Kelly, O'Meara and Shiel that we know of.

We went after Carlisle and Hannebury.


The problem is, we don't play 'block busters', so guys like Treloar and Shiel say no.
We dont have any sort of 'go home' advantage, so guys like Ablett and Dangerfield arent interested.
We don't get a salary cap advantage worth mentioning due to the 15% increase introduced two years back.
We aren't a contender, so guys like Fyfe and Kelly are better off staying put.

And, we have a plodder of a coach that has shown zero evidence of nurturing a player's talent - so about 10 clubs have an advantage over us in that regard.

We try to get the big guns. But we have pretty close to f*** all chance of cutting the lunch of almost every other club.


Wirh Dew at the Gold Coast, I'd imagine most of their young guys would stay there rather than play under Richo.

I would say the problem is that no part of us looks organised and dynamic, we don’t address problems on our list, play players out of position, rush back players lacking match fitness, drop those that have performed for weeks to get a go, persevere with other underachievers for much longer, continue with the same strategy again and again
Then we blame the players for performances and do the same damn thing over again.

Why would you want to come here... $$$ isn’t everything, neither is being part of blockbuster events. But the real killer is the fact that we look like a career killing club where you will come to give your all, get chewed up and spat out.

[samoht]

BarryGrogan...

Over the last 10-12 years, we could have gone after and landed/ poached a number of quality A grade big fish.

Are we talking to Coniglio right now? The Hawks are - even though our bottom ranked midfield needs him more.

Can you see the logic of 6 ruckmen on $200,000 each, 6 inside midfielders on $300,000 each and 10 hb flankers on $200,000 each?

You’re only ever going to play 1 ruckman, 2 inside midfielders and 2 half back flankers - why not concentrate on getting A grade quality in each case?
We prefer C grade quantity ... and wasting our salary cap on surplus capacity.

Quality actually costs less than quantity.
The successful teams know this.

Our recruiting needs to sharpen up ... we have a lot of catching up to do.

My understanding is that we've tried hard to get Martin, Fyfe, Kelly, O'Meara and Shiel that we know of.

We went after Carlisle and Hannebury.


The problem is, we don't play 'block busters', so guys like Treloar and Shiel say no.
We dont have any sort of 'go home' advantage, so guys like Ablett and Dangerfield arent interested.
We don't get a salary cap advantage worth mentioning due to the 15% increase introduced two years back.
We aren't a contender, so guys like Fyfe and Kelly are better off staying put.

And, we have a plodder of a coach that has shown zero evidence of nurturing a player's talent - so about 10 clubs have an advantage over us in that regard.

We try to get the big guns. But we have pretty close to f*** all chance of cutting the lunch of almost every other club.


Wirh Dew at the Gold Coast, I'd imagine most of their young guys would stay there rather than play under Richo.

I don’t think our coach (whoever it may be) is the problem here.

You can only nurture/ develop average talent so far ... given, other teams are landing and honing A grade talent ... they don’t even need to do as much nurturing/developing, and will always have stronger lists.

From what you’re saying, we need to bottom right out?

If we can’t land healthy A grade talent at their prime, unlike the stronger teams, then we’ll need to purge out all our C graders ... and start again through the draft?

Teams that can also land the A graders are obviously going to have an advantage over us ... and our head coaches will always be at a disadvantage and operating under a degree of difficulty, and be on the back foot with weaker lists.

So our head coaches will always be victims of circumstances, as it’s not an even playing field.

It’s a fait accomplis?

[Linton Lodger]

Last six matches points for : 68, 70, 70, 71, 69, 68. Truly Lyonesque.

Eleven games. 9 or 10 goals in nine of them.

The forward line needs a lot of work. Match after match we are not getting reward for effort. Plenty of inside 50s, usually plenty of scoring shots ... but under pressure and crowded.

Open it up FFS.

Richo is dreaming if he thinks those sorts of scores will get us into finals and shore up his employment prospects.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Carlisle, when he comes back, should be played mainly forward and giving Marshall a hand as second ruck.

Either that, or Battle goes forward when Carlisle gets back. We are a good key forward short in our structure. Membrey is more a half forward and quite frankly Bruce isn't a good key forward, just servicable.

We were smashed by 70 points (almost 12 goals) yet they only had 5 more shots on goal than us and that would have blown out late. That tells quite a story.

[Devilhead]

Last six matches points for : 68, 70, 70, 71, 69, 68. Truly Lyonesque.

Eleven games. 9 or 10 goals in nine of them.

The forward line needs a lot of work. Match after match we are not getting reward for effort. Plenty of inside 50s, usually plenty of scoring shots ... but under pressure and crowded.

Open it up FFS.

Richo is dreaming if he thinks those sorts of scores will get us into finals and shore up his employment prospects.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Carlisle, when he comes back, should be played mainly forward and giving Marshall a hand as second ruck.

Either that, or Battle goes forward when Carlisle gets back. We are a good key forward short in our structure. Membrey is more a half forward and quite frankly Bruce isn't a good key forward, just servicable.

We were smashed by 70 points (almost 12 goals) yet they only had 5 more shots on goal than us and that would have blown out late. That tells quite a story.

It's says they kicked straighter than us

[BarryGrogan]

I don’t think our coach (whoever it may be) is the problem here.

You can only nurture/ develop average talent so far ... given, other teams are landing and honing A grade talent ... they don’t even need to do as much nurturing/developing, and will always have stronger lists.

From what you’re saying, we need to bottom right out?

If we can’t land healthy A grade talent at their prime, then we’ll need to purge out all our C graders ... and start again through the draft?

Teams that can also land the A graders are obviously going to have an advantage over us ... and our head coaches will always be at a disadvantage and operating under a degree of difficulty, and be on the back foot with weaker lists.

So our head coaches will always be victims of circumstances, as it’s not an even playing field.

Landing A Graders will be a total fluke.

Developing the bevy of hughly skilled first round draftees that we have on our list is where the ball has been dropped.

Gresham can't kick. Yet in the draft i read that he was considered the best kick of the lot.

Bruce has gone from an athletic, high marking goal kicker, to a workhorse who barely even knows what a goal is.

McCartin was slaughtered by Richo. King will suffer the same fate.

Ross went from being an A Grade defensive mid to an accumulator that slaughters every tough he gets.

Geary went from being a lock down small defender of the highest calibre, to some sort of running back that cant find a target.

Clark and Coffield both look worse than when they arrived.

Long has gone backwards.

Carlisle has gone from being a borderline freak talent, to being fairly vanilla.

Even Steele has stagnated and is bombing it every time he gets it now.

The list goes on.

[Linton Lodger]

Last six matches points for : 68, 70, 70, 71, 69, 68. Truly Lyonesque.

Eleven games. 9 or 10 goals in nine of them.

The forward line needs a lot of work. Match after match we are not getting reward for effort. Plenty of inside 50s, usually plenty of scoring shots ... but under pressure and crowded.

Open it up FFS.

Richo is dreaming if he thinks those sorts of scores will get us into finals and shore up his employment prospects.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Carlisle, when he comes back, should be played mainly forward and giving Marshall a hand as second ruck.

Either that, or Battle goes forward when Carlisle gets back. We are a good key forward short in our structure. Membrey is more a half forward and quite frankly Bruce isn't a good key forward, just servicable.

We were smashed by 70 points (almost 12 goals) yet they only had 5 more shots on goal than us and that would have blown out late. That tells quite a story.

It's says they kicked straighter than us

That'd be a significant understatement.

[bigcarl]

Last six matches points for : 68, 70, 70, 71, 69, 68. Truly Lyonesque.

Eleven games. 9 or 10 goals in nine of them.

The forward line needs a lot of work. Match after match we are not getting reward for effort. Plenty of inside 50s, usually plenty of scoring shots ... but under pressure and crowded.

Open it up FFS.

Richo is dreaming if he thinks those sorts of scores will get us into finals and shore up his employment prospects.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Carlisle, when he comes back, should be played mainly forward and giving Marshall a hand as second ruck.

Either that, or Battle goes forward when Carlisle gets back. We are a good key forward short in our structure. Membrey is more a half forward and quite frankly Bruce isn't a good key forward, just servicable.

We were smashed by 70 points (almost 12 goals) yet they only had 5 more shots on goal than us and that would have blown out late. That tells quite a story.

Hear hear. We are a good key forward - and arguably a coach - short of being a half decent team.

Put a G-Train in there and open the forward line up and we’d still be a chance for finals this season, despite a lot of injury setbacks.

Unfortunately the coach doesn’t seem to see the problem and hasn’t got on top of it in five years. Time is running out for him.

[BarryGrogan]

BarryGrogan...

Over the last 10-12 years, we could have gone after and landed/ poached a number of quality A grade big fish.

Are we talking to Coniglio right now? The Hawks are - even though our bottom ranked midfield needs him more.

Can you see the logic of 6 ruckmen on $200,000 each, 6 inside midfielders on $300,000 each and 10 hb flankers on $200,000 each?

You’re only ever going to play 1 ruckman, 2 inside midfielders and 2 half back flankers - why not concentrate on getting A grade quality in each case?
We prefer C grade quantity ... and wasting our salary cap on surplus capacity.

Quality actually costs less than quantity.
The successful teams know this.

Our recruiting needs to sharpen up ... we have a lot of catching up to do.

My understanding is that we've tried hard to get Martin, Fyfe, Kelly, O'Meara and Shiel that we know of.

We went after Carlisle and Hannebury.


The problem is, we don't play 'block busters', so guys like Treloar and Shiel say no.
We dont have any sort of 'go home' advantage, so guys like Ablett and Dangerfield arent interested.
We don't get a salary cap advantage worth mentioning due to the 15% increase introduced two years back.
We aren't a contender, so guys like Fyfe and Kelly are better off staying put.

And, we have a plodder of a coach that has shown zero evidence of nurturing a player's talent - so about 10 clubs have an advantage over us in that regard.

We try to get the big guns. But we have pretty close to f*** all chance of cutting the lunch of almost every other club.


Wirh Dew at the Gold Coast, I'd imagine most of their young guys would stay there rather than play under Richo.

I don’t think our coach (whoever it may be) is the problem here.

You can only nurture/ develop average talent so far ... given, other teams are landing and honing A grade talent ... they don’t even need to do as much nurturing/developing, and will always have stronger lists.

From what you’re saying, we need to bottom right out?

If we can’t land healthy A grade talent at their prime, unlike the stronger teams, then we’ll need to purge out all our C graders ... and start again through the draft?

Teams that can also land the A graders are obviously going to have an advantage over us ... and our head coaches will always be at a disadvantage and operating under a degree of difficulty, and be on the back foot with weaker lists.

So our head coaches will always be victims of circumstances, as it’s not an even playing field.

It’s a fait accomplis?

No. I just think you're straight up wrong.


The players appear C Grade because of the coaching.

I seriously believe that a guy like the Bont or even Martin would appear average under Richo. His system is just so flawed, and does the exact opposite of creating an environment for footballers to flourish and realise their potential.

It stifles it.

[Linton Lodger]

At half time I could not believe we were 5 goals down.

The stats were all mainly even and it looked a tight contest in general play. The scores should have been really close at half time. Unfortunately, our kicking for goal was disgracefully inept whilst Port's was superb, they didn't miss from anywhere. When Port got to the 5 goal lead in the second, Inside 50s were even.

That was the difference between the sides at half time. Now a 5 goal deficit is problematic at the best of times, but usually far from impossible. Not in Shanghai, anyone who has experienced that climate knows what I mean.

So we were pushing it up hill at half time. Whether that, or illness or both accounts for our second half, no one here really knows.

Hannebery got it a lazy 25 times in 3 quarters for Sandy, he'll come straight in. Lonie, Carlisle and Webster will follow soon after the bye, critical players. Unfortunately we may have lost our Skipper for the season!

When those players are back and up and running, there will be no excuses. No excuses for not winning games and only kicking 9 or 10 goals.

[BarryGrogan]

Hannebery got it a lazy 25 times in 3 quarters for Sandy, he'll come straight in. Lonie, Carlisle and Webster will follow soon after the bye, critical players. Unfortunately we may have lost our Skipper for the season!

When those players are back and up and running, there will be no excuses. No excuses for not winning games and only kicking 9 or 10 goals.

So Lonie, who kicked 6 goals 8 and only had 1 Goal Assist, will help with poor conversion?

And Webster, who turns it over 3.2 times and delivers 2.5 Clangers each week will help with our polish coming out of defence?

[Linton Lodger]

Hannebery got it a lazy 25 times in 3 quarters for Sandy, he'll come straight in. Lonie, Carlisle and Webster will follow soon after the bye, critical players. Unfortunately we may have lost our Skipper for the season!

When those players are back and up and running, there will be no excuses. No excuses for not winning games and only kicking 9 or 10 goals.

So Lonie, who kicked 6 goals 8 and only had 1 Goal Assist, will help with poor conversion?

And Webster, who turns it over 3.2 times and delivers 2.5 Clangers each week will help with our polish coming out of defence?

Webster is critical to our transition out of defence, particularly his speed.

Lonie spooks opposition defences and is a link between the mids and forwards. He's the sort of player that makes things happen, because he's a really smart footballer with elite foot skills. . The return of Carlisle should mean we use him or Battle as a big forward and Hannebery will bring grunt and much needed leadership to our midfield.

Of course nothing works if you don't finish. Maybe we need to start dropping players for persistent poor conversion?

[Bruce G McAbee]

Remember, the reason we got Hammil, Gehrig and Brett Voss was because we got Malcolm Blight first.
We need a high profile coach to help attract really good players.