The BIGGEST issue with our coach.

[portosaint]

Yep. As disappointing as the end result was, and as frustrating as our forward entries are, we played good footy for 3 qtrs.

I would have just liked to see a bit more dare from the coaches box when the game was slipping. Nothing to lose IMO

[Life Long Saint]

Statistically, he, and we, are not improving.

Our average points for per game over the past five and half years under his watch are:
67.3 (2014)
77.0
88.8
87.5
73.0
75.0 (2019)
starting at 2014.

Our percentage is damning too...
60.76 (2014)
78.40
95.69
96.93
75.58
89.40 (2019)

Even when we went 12-10 in 2016, we had a percentage of less than 96%.

We have only scored 100 or more points 24 times in the 119 games he's coached.
Our goal kicking accuracy peaked at 54.7% in 2016...Peaked at a little better than 50/50. And has only ever finished over 50% in two years (his first and 2016). We currently sit at 51.1% and are trending downwards.

Our only stat to improve consistently over time is our points conceded. We are sitting at 83.9 this season. The only time we've been under 90...I suspect that's down to the scores across the board being the lowest since 1967.

His overall win/loss percentage sits at 35.3

These are the facts.
What the club chooses to do with them is anyone's guess. But, statistically, we are not tracking well this season and our big issues are still there.
Where is the improvement coming from?
How much longer do we persist?

[samoht]

Facts without context are misleading, Life Long Saint.
How did Richo go in 2016 and 2017 when we weren't cruelled by as many injuries?
We won 50% of our games, didn't we - and we still had the lowest ranked midfield going around back then.

We probably outperformed in 2016 - I know I was surprised by the big turnaround in 2016 - it was totally unexpected.

On top of these injuries over the last 2 years, two of our best - Steven, rated as our best midfielder, skills notwithstanding, is out indefinitely, and Roberton is out indefintiely.

What the club has chosen to do is put these facts/statistics into context - which is the logical and realistic thing to do.

Bottom line:
Even if everything was going right for us, and we had a good run with injuries and luck (instead of the horrid run we've been having the last 2 years) - the fact is we'd still have the lowest ranked midfield going around - so what sort of w/l results should we expect at the best of times?

[saintadamski]

+1 Samoht

Again, how are on field statistics representative of a coach's ability??

If it were a video game, and he was using an XBox controller to control each player, then I would agree - the statistics are a reflection of his ability.

The coach being solely responsible for our on field stats is simply bewildering to me...if Richo was coaching Geelong's list, or Collingwood's list, he would be winning games, and lauded as a genius in the box!

The facts are simple....We need decent players! and most of all a decent midfield!!!

and Newnes.....will somebody please please put him in the McGoos where he belongs...how many years of this?!?!?!

[samoht]

This is interesting --
I was sitting next to Noone's dad yesterday and we were chatting.
I asked him at one stage - "your son has played under quite a few coaches over his career with Sandy. Has he rated any one coach above the others?"
His answer was: "No. Not really. "They're all the same" .. and he added: "What makes the difference is the availability of players - and St Kilda players in particular".
I asked what he meant by availability - he explained that Sandy made the finals a few years ago, but Richo decided to take St Kilda players out of the Sandringham side, which he said cost Sandringham the finals and a real tilt at the premiership.
I asked - "so coaches are a nil all draw?" ... and he said: "Yes, pretty much at this level (meaning the AFL or VFL level)"

I asked him at the end: "so, would you say recruiting is much more important in the scheme of things than who's coaching?" " ... and he said: "Definitely. Recruiting is the key"

[Beno88]

Interestingly Richo now has a record of 41 wins and 76 losses at the Saints. Ross Lyon had 76 wins and 41 losses.

[bigred]

I cant bring myself to watch his presser.

He didnt really say "if we park the 4th quarter" did he?

[Josh Battle]

This is interesting --
I was sitting next to Noone's dad yesterday and we were chatting.
I asked him at one stage - "your son has played under quite a few coaches over his career with Sandy. Has he rated any one coach above the others?"
His answer was: "No. Not really. "They're all the same" .. and he added: "What makes the difference is the availability of players - and St Kilda players in particular".
I asked what he meant by availability - he explained that Sandy made the finals a few years ago, but Richo decided to take St Kilda players out of the Sandringham side, which he said cost Sandringham the finals and a real tilt at the premiership.
I asked - "so coaches are a nil all draw?" ... and he said: "Yes, pretty much at this level (meaning the AFL or VFL level)"

I asked him at the end: "so, would you say recruiting is much more important in the scheme of things than who's coaching?" " ... and he said: "Definitely. Recruiting is the key"

I like to ask a politician's son at each election who he thinks will win the election and he said last week; "the bloke who represents most people in Australia and most of us are salary and wage earners aren't we?"

I said; so you think the ALP and he said: Yes

I'm changing the way I conduct my polling

[barneyboyz]

Interestingly Richo now has a record of 41 wins and 76 losses at the Saints. Ross Lyon had 76 wins and 41 losses.

Time for change then, the numbers demand it

FWIW There's plenty of good discussion on this subject, one thing I would add is that the coach, when presented with our current scenario should at least mix a few things up occasionally. Yes, he's tried Battle forward and a couple of other things, but there's at least 3 blokes playing the two's atm that will hit the ball running at a centre bounce or ball up. It would certainly not hurt to try something completely different in the midfield

[Josh Battle]

This is interesting --
I was sitting next to Noone's dad yesterday and we were chatting.
I asked him at one stage - "your son has played under quite a few coaches over his career with Sandy. Has he rated any one coach above the others?"
His answer was: "No. Not really. "They're all the same" .. and he added: "What makes the difference is the availability of players - and St Kilda players in particular".
I asked what he meant by availability - he explained that Sandy made the finals a few years ago, but Richo decided to take St Kilda players out of the Sandringham side, which he said cost Sandringham the finals and a real tilt at the premiership.
I asked - "so coaches are a nil all draw?" ... and he said: "Yes, pretty much at this level (meaning the AFL or VFL level)"

I asked him at the end: "so, would you say recruiting is much more important in the scheme of things than who's coaching?" " ... and he said: "Definitely. Recruiting is the key"

I asked someone this morning if they thought it was going to rain and he said; Yes

He was the father of a meteoroligist. Bloody fool made me stop all my workers from turning up and it's been fine all day!!

[spert]

The biggest problem with 'Cho? he's been there too long with no success- end of story

[WellardSaint]

I'm looking forward to the end of the year, when hopefully, Richo is asked to pack up all of his belongings into some boxes,
and Ratten takes over as head coach. Or someone else. Anyone else.

This time last year, I was thinking "just wait till the end of the year, 2019 has to be much better".
Well, it was, for a few games.

[DJ Higgins]

For me the biggest disappointment is the lack of players development. That was his selling point when we got him and most seem to stagnate or worse go backwards.

I'd give a coach a few non starters but how many are people claiming are consistently living up to their potential. The key word there is consistently. Yes we have move wins than expected but they include 2 by a straight kick and another by under 10.
Unless things click against decent teams then he should go.

[Impatient Sainter]

For me the biggest disappointment is the lack of players development. That was his selling point when we got him and most seem to stagnate or worse go backwards.

I'd give a coach a few non starters but how many are people claiming are consistently living up to their potential. The key word there is consistently. Yes we have move wins than expected but they include 2 by a straight kick and another by under 10.
Unless things click against decent teams then he should go.

Says it all when as mentioned above he pulls players from the Sandringham team and they miss playing finals. Thats what every player plays footy for no matter the level - development my arse.

[takeaway]

For me the biggest disappointment is the lack of players development. That was his selling point when we got him and most seem to stagnate or worse go backwards.

I'd give a coach a few non starters but how many are people claiming are consistently living up to their potential. The key word there is consistently. Yes we have move wins than expected but they include 2 by a straight kick and another by under 10.
Unless things click against decent teams then he should go.

Says it all when as mentioned above he pulls players from the Sandringham team and they miss playing finals. Thats what every player plays footy for no matter the level - development my arse.

No other AFL club does that of course....... NOT

[The Fireman]

here is an excerpt from Roos Book

"Gosh if people could have seen what we invested in it. The way we played under Ross Lyon was a brutal,incredibly taxing game style,with such a strong emphasize on everyone being accountable defensively. Even when we won the first 19 games 2009 it never felt easy, because we were investing so much from a preparation point of view. But once the momentum kicked in, it was like a tidal wave that couldn't be stopped.
The mental preparation that went into conditioning every player-knowing where to be on the grd in every scenario, how he should approach each contest , where to take the ball and how to move it up the ground. - was terribly time consuming but it bought results."

I guess Richo's style is less taxing.

[To the top]

It would be interesting to question the difference between Hawthorn and St Kilda, seeing we have on our Coaching Panel a person who was at Hawthorn over recent seasons including last year.

The answers may revolve around intensity (and Clarkson who is intent to the extreme so good or bad?), expectations including what is expected of the playing group and do they know what these expectations are (impacting on our younger players coming into the AFL competition) and the on field patterns

You could be excused for presuming that the atmosphere is more relaxed at St Kilda than at Hawthorn

And more enjoyable?

Unless you are in the “inner circle” of the Football Department or know any of the Coaches on an intimate basis so they confide in you, you will not know the answers to the questions that matter

So people who are uneducated telling their fellow uneducated what they do not know

Which is society in general these days

[damienc]

Come on guys, if you park the last 1/4 we were in it up to our necks.

The last quarter was so diabolically terrible it well and truly negated the previous three, IMHO.

[HighettMan]

Come on guys, if you park the last 1/4 we were in it up to our necks.

The last quarter was so diabolically terrible it well and truly negated the previous three, IMHO.

If you're a sad sack and bitch and moan about a fly crawling up the wall.

[damienc]

This discussion is interesting, but not wishing to denigrate any or all of the well crafted arguments and opinions, have we not heard it all before, about our coach, in numerous previous threads?

Richo is on borrowed time.

If we lose to the Blues that must be his curtain call. Six straight losses in a row.

And before anyone says yes but some of those losses were honourable and we are missing some key personnel.

BS. They are not reasons. They are excuses.

There is no honour in losing. The honour is in winning.

Only results count. Only results count.

Hang on,I hear you say, if we are playing Carlton, how could we possibly lose to the worst team in the AFL ?

(crickets)

[damienc]

Come on guys, if you park the last 1/4 we were in it up to our necks.

The last quarter was so diabolically terrible it well and truly negated the previous three, IMHO.

If you're a sad sack and bitch and moan about a fly crawling up the wall.

Well you are clearly someone prepared to settle for second and third best. Good luck with that.

[HighettMan]

This discussion is interesting, but not wishing to denigrate any or all of the well crafted arguments and opinions, have we not heard it all before, about our coach, in numerous previous threads?

Richo is on borrowed time.

If we lose to the Blues that must be his curtain call. Six straight losses in a row.

And before anyone says yes but some of those losses were honourable and we are missing some key personnel.

BS. They are not reasons. They are excuses.

There is no honour in losing. The honour is in winning.

Only results count. Only results count.

Hang on,I hear you say, if we are playing Carlton, how could we possibly lose to the worst team in the AFL ?

(crickets)

Mate you gotta get a clue. You're very angry and it's making you sound sillly.

[CQ SAINT]

This discussion is interesting, but not wishing to denigrate any or all of the well crafted arguments and opinions, have we not heard it all before, about our coach, in numerous previous threads?

Richo is on borrowed time.

If we lose to the Blues that must be his curtain call. Six straight losses in a row.

And before anyone says yes but some of those losses were honourable and we are missing some key personnel.

BS. They are not reasons. They are excuses.

There is no honour in losing. The honour is in winning.

Only results count. Only results count.

Hang on,I hear you say, if we are playing Carlton, how could we possibly lose to the worst team in the AFL ?

(crickets)

So ultimately Lyon was no better than Richo?

[damienc]

This discussion is interesting, but not wishing to denigrate any or all of the well crafted arguments and opinions, have we not heard it all before, about our coach, in numerous previous threads?

Richo is on borrowed time.

If we lose to the Blues that must be his curtain call. Six straight losses in a row.

And before anyone says yes but some of those losses were honourable and we are missing some key personnel.

BS. They are not reasons. They are excuses.

There is no honour in losing. The honour is in winning.

Only results count. Only results count.

Hang on,I hear you say, if we are playing Carlton, how could we possibly lose to the worst team in the AFL ?

(crickets)

Mate you gotta get a clue. You're very angry and it's making you sound sillly.

You are absolutely right. One of us is completely clueless and I'm pretty sure I know who that is.

[HighettMan]

This discussion is interesting, but not wishing to denigrate any or all of the well crafted arguments and opinions, have we not heard it all before, about our coach, in numerous previous threads?

Richo is on borrowed time.

If we lose to the Blues that must be his curtain call. Six straight losses in a row.

And before anyone says yes but some of those losses were honourable and we are missing some key personnel.

BS. They are not reasons. They are excuses.

There is no honour in losing. The honour is in winning.

Only results count. Only results count.

Hang on,I hear you say, if we are playing Carlton, how could we possibly lose to the worst team in the AFL ?

(crickets)

Mate you gotta get a clue. You're very angry and it's making you sound sillly.

You are absolutely right. One of us is completely clueless and I'm pretty sure I know who that is.

You come accross as one of those blokes standing on a wooden box at Flinders Street station shouting at eveyone walking past.