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"Not only has the left-footer expressed no desire to leave, but he’s privately reiterated his wish to remain at Moorabbin and does not want to know about rival offers.
Essendon has shown interest in the past, but potential suitors have been told in no uncertain terms he is not worth chasing."
"The in-form Billings is averaging 29 disposals per game in 2019 and the Herald Sun has reported he is set to earn upwards of $800,000 per year on his new deal. If his form continues, this figure could even push to $900,000 — a number feasible thanks to St Kilda’s spacious salary cap position and Billings hot form.
Sources in club land also maintain $800,000 will be paid to at least five players from each club as early as next year, given the natural rise the salary cap. If Billings is considered one of the stars of the Saints and is still yet to enter the prime of his career, he stands to be paid accordingly."
That last paragraph deserves its own thread
Which five players at St Kilda should get $800K a year?
On potential you'd include Carlisle but on output and risks going forward, I wouldn't
The_Dud wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 12:20am
This is the problem when you set the benchmark of $800k for an ageing broken down DH.
He’s worth about $1.5M on that scale.
Yeah if we weren't paying Hannebry 800k Billings would stay for 400k.
Lol. Whatever Hannebery is on will not effect any contract negotiations for current players or bringing in any new players. Its amazing how Hanners or Richo nearly slip into every thread on here, no matter how obscure the link.
Rubbish, it will of course effect both of these.
As Wayne Carey said in his show, players inside the club all know who’s on what and they do talk about it.
Who in any workplace is happy to settle for less money when they know someone inferior is getting paid more? If you were Steven, Carlisle, Greshem, Steele etc. would you be happy to settle for less than DH in your next contract, or believe the club when it says it “can’t afford more” or that “we don’t think you’re worth that much”?
Paying DH so much both takes up salary cap space and artificially inflates everyone elses worth, you’d be silly to think it has no effect at all.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 1:11pm
Which five players at St Kilda should get $800K a year?
On potential you'd include Carlisle but on output and risks going forward, I wouldn't
I'd go Stuv, Bruce, Steele, Gresh, and Billings
What has Bruce done in the past 4 years that would put him remotely close to the top 5 players at the club?
The guy was dropped to the VFL just last year, he's closer to fringe than top 5 at the club.
Agreed. Would be more inclined to pay Membrey.
Josh Bruce was in a wooden spoon side and getting double teamed when he announced himself as our Number 1 power forward. Membrey rode on his coat tails and while Roo was still around. How does Membrey usually go when he is the main target or when Bruce was missing from the side for most of last year?
When they are both lined up in the forward line, who does the opposition's number 1 defender usually go to?
Same thing with Tex Walker and Josh Jenkins. Josh only plays well when Tex is double teamed and the opposition's best defender takes Tex while Jerker is on the lesser light
Demons thought that Tommy McDonald would go ok without Hogan. How's that working out? And of course, who was on the big money...Hogan or McDonald?
The_Dud wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 12:20am
This is the problem when you set the benchmark of $800k for an ageing broken down DH.
He’s worth about $1.5M on that scale.
Yeah if we weren't paying Hannebry 800k Billings would stay for 400k.
Lol. Whatever Hannebery is on will not effect any contract negotiations for current players or bringing in any new players. Its amazing how Hanners or Richo nearly slip into every thread on here, no matter how obscure the link.
Rubbish, it will of course effect both of these.
As Wayne Carey said in his show, players inside the club all know who’s on what and they do talk about it.
Who in any workplace is happy to settle for less money when they know someone inferior is getting paid more? If you were Steven, Carlisle, Greshem, Steele etc. would you be happy to settle for less than DH in your next contract, or believe the club when it says it “can’t afford more” or that “we don’t think you’re worth that much”?
Paying DH so much both takes up salary cap space and artificially inflates everyone elses worth, you’d be silly to think it has no effect at all.
All not factual or true in what you have written. Sorry Dudley.
We could afford 2 quality FA's plus give improved contracts to a number of players. The salary cap will only get bigger.
Posters that have admitted they were wrong about Hanna's gastro and the club didn't create a cover story.
Total = 1.
Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 1:11pm
Which five players at St Kilda should get $800K a year?
On potential you'd include Carlisle but on output and risks going forward, I wouldn't
I'd go Stuv, Bruce, Steele, Gresh, and Billings
What has Bruce done in the past 4 years that would put him remotely close to the top 5 players at the club?
The guy was dropped to the VFL just last year, he's closer to fringe than top 5 at the club.
Agreed. Would be more inclined to pay Membrey.
Josh Bruce was in a wooden spoon side and getting double teamed when he announced himself as our Number 1 power forward. Membrey rode on his coat tails and while Roo was still around. How does Membrey usually go when he is the main target or when Bruce was missing from the side for most of last year?
When they are both lined up in the forward line, who does the opposition's number 1 defender usually go to?
Same thing with Tex Walker and Josh Jenkins. Josh only plays well when Tex is double teamed and the opposition's best defender takes Tex while Jerker is on the lesser light
Demons thought that Tommy McDonald would go ok without Hogan. How's that working out? And of course, who was on the big money...Hogan or McDonald?
Yeah, nah...
Pretty sure Nick Riewoldt was the one getting double teamed in 2015 which allowed Bruce some freedom to kick his one time 50 goals, which coincidently was Josh's only top 10 B&F finish - 8th.
Membrey is very consistent regardless of Bruce being in the side or not, goal kicking the only thing letting him down last year.
If Bruce is worth 800 for his 1.5 goals per game, then our cap is in strife.
The_Dud wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 12:20am
This is the problem when you set the benchmark of $800k for an ageing broken down DH.
He’s worth about $1.5M on that scale.
Yeah if we weren't paying Hannebry 800k Billings would stay for 400k.
Lol. Whatever Hannebery is on will not effect any contract negotiations for current players or bringing in any new players. Its amazing how Hanners or Richo nearly slip into every thread on here, no matter how obscure the link.
Rubbish, it will of course effect both of these.
As Wayne Carey said in his show, players inside the club all know who’s on what and they do talk about it.
Who in any workplace is happy to settle for less money when they know someone inferior is getting paid more? If you were Steven, Carlisle, Greshem, Steele etc. would you be happy to settle for less than DH in your next contract, or believe the club when it says it “can’t afford more” or that “we don’t think you’re worth that much”?
Paying DH so much both takes up salary cap space and artificially inflates everyone elses worth, you’d be silly to think it has no effect at all.
All not factual or true in what you have written. Sorry Dudley.
We could afford 2 quality FA's plus give improved contracts to a number of players. The salary cap will only get bigger.
Disagree.
If you’re over paying 5 players on your list by $100k that’s the difference between having another $300k ordinary player or an $800k gun.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
The_Dud wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 12:20am
This is the problem when you set the benchmark of $800k for an ageing broken down DH.
He’s worth about $1.5M on that scale.
Yeah if we weren't paying Hannebry 800k Billings would stay for 400k.
Lol. Whatever Hannebery is on will not effect any contract negotiations for current players or bringing in any new players. Its amazing how Hanners or Richo nearly slip into every thread on here, no matter how obscure the link.
Rubbish, it will of course effect both of these.
As Wayne Carey said in his show, players inside the club all know who’s on what and they do talk about it.
Who in any workplace is happy to settle for less money when they know someone inferior is getting paid more? If you were Steven, Carlisle, Greshem, Steele etc. would you be happy to settle for less than DH in your next contract, or believe the club when it says it “can’t afford more” or that “we don’t think you’re worth that much”?
Paying DH so much both takes up salary cap space and artificially inflates everyone elses worth, you’d be silly to think it has no effect at all.
All not factual or true in what you have written. Sorry Dudley.
We could afford 2 quality FA's plus give improved contracts to a number of players. The salary cap will only get bigger.
Disagree.
If you’re over paying 5 players on your list by $100k that’s the difference between having another $300k ordinary player or an $800k gun.
Who overpays 5 players on their by $100k, no club I know, not sure about your theory there really.
Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 1:11pm
Which five players at St Kilda should get $800K a year?
On potential you'd include Carlisle but on output and risks going forward, I wouldn't
I'd go Stuv, Bruce, Steele, Gresh, and Billings
What has Bruce done in the past 4 years that would put him remotely close to the top 5 players at the club?
The guy was dropped to the VFL just last year, he's closer to fringe than top 5 at the club.
Agreed. Would be more inclined to pay Membrey.
Josh Bruce was in a wooden spoon side and getting double teamed when he announced himself as our Number 1 power forward. Membrey rode on his coat tails and while Roo was still around. How does Membrey usually go when he is the main target or when Bruce was missing from the side for most of last year?
When they are both lined up in the forward line, who does the opposition's number 1 defender usually go to?
Same thing with Tex Walker and Josh Jenkins. Josh only plays well when Tex is double teamed and the opposition's best defender takes Tex while Jerker is on the lesser light
Demons thought that Tommy McDonald would go ok without Hogan. How's that working out? And of course, who was on the big money...Hogan or McDonald?
Yeah, nah...
Pretty sure Nick Riewoldt was the one getting double teamed in 2015 which allowed Bruce some freedom to kick his one time 50 goals, which coincidently was Josh's only top 10 B&F finish - 8th.
Membrey is very consistent regardless of Bruce being in the side or not, goal kicking the only thing letting him down last year.
If Bruce is worth 800 for his 1.5 goals per game, then our cap is in strife.
Seriously over-rated by too many.
So Bruce is now a full time stay at home forward, and should be rated only on his goal average?
Anyhow, if it was up to me I'd pay them about the same, but I rate Bruce slightly ahead of Tim for his value to a team just because he has the size and weight to be more versatile
Jacks Back wrote: ↑Mon 29 Apr 2019 10:50pm
They said it on on the couch and 2 years takes him to free agency. Nothing is signed but apparently all parties are in agreement.
Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 1:11pm
Which five players at St Kilda should get $800K a year?
On potential you'd include Carlisle but on output and risks going forward, I wouldn't
I'd go Stuv, Bruce, Steele, Gresh, and Billings
What has Bruce done in the past 4 years that would put him remotely close to the top 5 players at the club?
The guy was dropped to the VFL just last year, he's closer to fringe than top 5 at the club.
Agreed. Would be more inclined to pay Membrey.
Josh Bruce was in a wooden spoon side and getting double teamed when he announced himself as our Number 1 power forward. Membrey rode on his coat tails and while Roo was still around. How does Membrey usually go when he is the main target or when Bruce was missing from the side for most of last year?
When they are both lined up in the forward line, who does the opposition's number 1 defender usually go to?
Same thing with Tex Walker and Josh Jenkins. Josh only plays well when Tex is double teamed and the opposition's best defender takes Tex while Jerker is on the lesser light
Demons thought that Tommy McDonald would go ok without Hogan. How's that working out? And of course, who was on the big money...Hogan or McDonald?
Yeah, nah...
Pretty sure Nick Riewoldt was the one getting double teamed in 2015 which allowed Bruce some freedom to kick his one time 50 goals, which coincidently was Josh's only top 10 B&F finish - 8th.
Membrey is very consistent regardless of Bruce being in the side or not, goal kicking the only thing letting him down last year.
If Bruce is worth 800 for his 1.5 goals per game, then our cap is in strife.
Seriously over-rated by too many.
So Bruce is now a full time stay at home forward, and should be rated only on his goal average?
Anyhow, if it was up to me I'd pay them about the same, but I rate Bruce slightly ahead of Tim for his value to a team just because he has the size and weight to be more versatile
You said he announced himself as the #1 power forward, but he takes less marks and doesn't kick any more goals than membrey who is 10cm shorter?
What makes him more versatile?
He can't ruck, was terrible as a defender and doesn't get a lot of the footy despite running around a lot.
Last edited by gone fission on Tue 30 Apr 2019 11:38pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jacks Back wrote: ↑Mon 29 Apr 2019 10:50pm
They said it on on the couch and 2 years takes him to free agency. Nothing is signed but apparently all parties are in agreement.
so am assumption by commentators?
Maybe
As ex-president Peter Summers said:
“If we are going to be a contender, we may as well plan to win the bloody thing.”
Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 1:11pm
Which five players at St Kilda should get $800K a year?
On potential you'd include Carlisle but on output and risks going forward, I wouldn't
I'd go Stuv, Bruce, Steele, Gresh, and Billings
What has Bruce done in the past 4 years that would put him remotely close to the top 5 players at the club?
The guy was dropped to the VFL just last year, he's closer to fringe than top 5 at the club.
Agreed. Would be more inclined to pay Membrey.
Josh Bruce was in a wooden spoon side and getting double teamed when he announced himself as our Number 1 power forward. Membrey rode on his coat tails and while Roo was still around. How does Membrey usually go when he is the main target or when Bruce was missing from the side for most of last year?
When they are both lined up in the forward line, who does the opposition's number 1 defender usually go to?
Same thing with Tex Walker and Josh Jenkins. Josh only plays well when Tex is double teamed and the opposition's best defender takes Tex while Jerker is on the lesser light
Demons thought that Tommy McDonald would go ok without Hogan. How's that working out? And of course, who was on the big money...Hogan or McDonald?
Yeah, nah...
Pretty sure Nick Riewoldt was the one getting double teamed in 2015 which allowed Bruce some freedom to kick his one time 50 goals, which coincidently was Josh's only top 10 B&F finish - 8th.
Membrey is very consistent regardless of Bruce being in the side or not, goal kicking the only thing letting him down last year.
If Bruce is worth 800 for his 1.5 goals per game, then our cap is in strife.
Seriously over-rated by too many.
So Bruce is now a full time stay at home forward, and should be rated only on his goal average?
Anyhow, if it was up to me I'd pay them about the same, but I rate Bruce slightly ahead of Tim for his value to a team just because he has the size and weight to be more versatile
You said he announced himself as the #1 power forward, but he takes less marks and doesn't kick any more goals than membrey who is 10cm shorter?
What makes him more versatile?
He can't ruck, was terrible as a defender and doesn't get a lot of the footy despite running around a lot.
In 2015 we were the reigning wooden spooners. Have a look at Bruce's stats from that year. He went ok, I can assure you and was up there in the Coleman iirc and definitely our best forward. Compare Bruce's stats in 2015 with Tim's stats from 2017 (where Timmy also announced himself as one of the leagues best forwards)
I think they are good years for comparison rather than comparing their whole careers, coz we know that Bruce has played various roles as requested by his coach. Bruce was played solely as a forward in 2015. He had more marks inside 50 than Tim did in 2017 and kicked more goals than Tim did in 2017
His size makes him more versatile. He's pretty quick too for his size and is a very good tackler. He averaged 1 extra tackle per match more than Tim for years compared. His size gives him more presence and creates more havoc when he crashes packs and provides crumbs for our smalls. That is obvious and that is why his coaches value him for more than just his possessions
Last edited by Scollop on Tue 30 Apr 2019 11:55pm, edited 2 times in total.
The_Dud wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 12:20am
This is the problem when you set the benchmark of $800k for an ageing broken down DH.
He’s worth about $1.5M on that scale.
Yeah if we weren't paying Hannebry 800k Billings would stay for 400k.
Lol. Whatever Hannebery is on will not effect any contract negotiations for current players or bringing in any new players. Its amazing how Hanners or Richo nearly slip into every thread on here, no matter how obscure the link.
Rubbish, it will of course effect both of these.
As Wayne Carey said in his show, players inside the club all know who’s on what and they do talk about it.
Who in any workplace is happy to settle for less money when they know someone inferior is getting paid more? If you were Steven, Carlisle, Greshem, Steele etc. would you be happy to settle for less than DH in your next contract, or believe the club when it says it “can’t afford more” or that “we don’t think you’re worth that much”?
Paying DH so much both takes up salary cap space and artificially inflates everyone elses worth, you’d be silly to think it has no effect at all.
All not factual or true in what you have written. Sorry Dudley.
We could afford 2 quality FA's plus give improved contracts to a number of players. The salary cap will only get bigger.
Disagree.
If you’re over paying 5 players on your list by $100k that’s the difference between having another $300k ordinary player or an $800k gun.
Who overpays 5 players on their by $100k, no club I know, not sure about your theory there really.
Also, $800k won't get you a gun anymore!
We’re already overpaying DH by at least $200k, so we’re almost half way there. Pretty sure the Dogs are overpaying Boyd alone by $500k. Carlton overpaid for Daisy and it cost them Betts. That’s just off the top of my head.
And I’d say $500k turns a fringe player into a top 10 player at your club easy. Gotta make the most of every dollar these days.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
The_Dud wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 12:20am
This is the problem when you set the benchmark of $800k for an ageing broken down DH.
He’s worth about $1.5M on that scale.
Yeah if we weren't paying Hannebry 800k Billings would stay for 400k.
Lol. Whatever Hannebery is on will not effect any contract negotiations for current players or bringing in any new players. Its amazing how Hanners or Richo nearly slip into every thread on here, no matter how obscure the link.
Rubbish, it will of course effect both of these.
As Wayne Carey said in his show, players inside the club all know who’s on what and they do talk about it.
Who in any workplace is happy to settle for less money when they know someone inferior is getting paid more? If you were Steven, Carlisle, Greshem, Steele etc. would you be happy to settle for less than DH in your next contract, or believe the club when it says it “can’t afford more” or that “we don’t think you’re worth that much”?
Paying DH so much both takes up salary cap space and artificially inflates everyone elses worth, you’d be silly to think it has no effect at all.
All not factual or true in what you have written. Sorry Dudley.
We could afford 2 quality FA's plus give improved contracts to a number of players. The salary cap will only get bigger.
Disagree.
If you’re over paying 5 players on your list by $100k that’s the difference between having another $300k ordinary player or an $800k gun.
Who overpays 5 players on their by $100k, no club I know, not sure about your theory there really.
Also, $800k won't get you a gun anymore!
We’re already overpaying DH by at least $200k, so we’re almost half way there. Pretty sure the Dogs are overpaying Boyd alone by $500k. Carlton overpaid for Daisy and it cost them Betts. That’s just off the top of my head.
And I’d say $500k turns a fringe player into a top 10 player at your club easy. Gotta make the most of every dollar these days.
That Hannebery deal will haunt us for many years to come - good average players will use that $800K as a benchmark - is it any wonder that our debt is so high when the people that we entrust to spend our money wisely make stupid decisions like this. No disrespect to Hanners but he was basically cooked a couple of years ago and yet the good old Saints think back to when he was a terrific player and think that the magic will reappear - doesn't work like that.
So disappointed with the people that firstly chose to recruit him and secondly decided that his worth was $800K per season........Jesus Christ, give me a break.
I've posted this before but I reckon it's relevant to post it again.
A number of years ago I had reason to speak to a person who would have 100% an idea of what players at the Hawks were getting paid. I was staggered to learn that only 3 players on the list were paid over 500k. That was the current captain (Hodge) Lance Franklin, and Sam Mitchell. EVERYONE else was under $500k. I know that 7-8 years ago is almost a different era but when this person asked me how much I thought Jordan Lewis was getting paid, I said about 600k. He replied 'halve that and add about a 100k....' He then asked me what I thought BJ was worth because it was at that time BJ was fighting about his contract and was looking to go to bombers. He made it clear to me that the 800k that BJ was wanting was well and truly over the odds
the point is to successfully manage a list you need to keep everyone in check. It's the culture of the joint. Yes, it's a business, but the players need to realise that no one or two players will win us a flag. If Billings is worth 900k then I reckon Gresham when his contract comes up, would very well be justified in asking for the same amount. So should Steele, Seb Ross and Geary (he's the skipper afterall) STUV should be asking for 1.2 mill. It's all relevant. None of our players have made the AA team and Billings has never even made the squad. I think we all need to remember that we were lucky to have 1 player (Stuv) in the top 50 players in the league by multiple experts at the start of the year. Many didn't even have him in it.
Don't get me wrong, I've been a critic of Billings in the past but I've been really happy how he has managed to turn things around this year. To become elite he has to own the big moments though, and that means nailing the crucial goals. I don't care what anyone says, Billings is not elite, not yet. this contract suggests he is. A host of our promising players (the ones I've just mentioned) being on between 500-600k is very reasonable I reckon until they win multiple B&F's or top 3 finishes, start making AA squads and start dragging this club up the ladder. We have some very promising younger players on the list who we will need to keep happy as well in the future.
My gut feel is that Jack is holding us over a barrel. Surely a 5 year contract with triggers for form, or the ability to renegotiate if he becomes the player we all hoped he would is fair? A 2 year contract which takes him to FA also holds us over a barrel.
To avoid these pie in the sky figures (distortions where Tom Boyd can command $1 Mill/annum due to his "tallness", etc) .... and paying overs to retain an out of contract player.
Maybe the AFL should devise a system where the players themselves would rank and decide who should be highest paid and lowest paid on their respective lists. A peer ranking system.
Then it would be a case of weighting it so the highest ranked gets paid the most and the lowest ranked player gets paid the least, etc...
It would be a fair and equitable way to ensure that players get paid what they're worth.
And in the case of free agents or out-of-contractees, the rival clubs could offer say up x% more to attract the players across .. and the free agents could then decide if x% more is worth the shift (where x is not more than 10, 15 or 20? i.e., is limited to a reasonable figure that the AFL decides on).
Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 30 Apr 2019 11:49pm
In 2015 we were the reigning wooden spooners. Have a look at Bruce's stats from that year. He went ok, I can assure you and was up there in the Coleman iirc and definitely our best forward. Compare Bruce's stats in 2015 with Tim's stats from 2017 (where Timmy also announced himself as one of the leagues best forwards)
I think they are good years for comparison rather than comparing their whole careers, coz we know that Bruce has played various roles as requested by his coach. Bruce was played solely as a forward in 2015. He had more marks inside 50 than Tim did in 2017 and kicked more goals than Tim did in 2017
His size makes him more versatile. He's pretty quick too for his size and is a very good tackler. He averaged 1 extra tackle per match more than Tim for years compared. His size gives him more presence and creates more havoc when he crashes packs and provides crumbs for our smalls. That is obvious and that is why his coaches value him for more than just his possessions
If you were Josh's manager and tried to use these stats as a premise to ask for $800,000, roughly double what Membrey is on, you would be laughed out of town.
Membrey's 2016 was better than his 2017, has Bruce's 2015 covered in nearly every meaningful stat
2015 is four years ago regardless and since then Bruce has settled into a consistent 11 possession, 35-40 goal forward - a decent player, but nowhere near worth 800k per season.
Size doesn't make a player versatile either, being versatile means you can play different positions, something Bruce hasn't shown at all so far.
800 K should be reserved for players heading into the elite category like Billings, not B graders who had a decent year 4 seasons ago.
