VFL Rd 3 Zebras Vs Seagulls ( Williamstown)

[Bernard Shakey]

Where was White playing?

Half back!

[To the top]

In regards Longer, did anyone note the speed at which the ball was moved around the ground yesterday?

And that both of Melbourne’s rucks impacted on the game including hitting the score board?

And ask yourself how and where Longer would impact

With all due respect, Longer wound diminish our ability to get numbers to the contest defensively and would impede on our ability to spread offensively

And, to me, those skills have been the highlight so far in 2019 so we look to improve them, not diminish them at the selection table

Look at the reasons Marshall has been a revelation this season - he compliments our strengths because he is a skilled footballer - with height

[BringBackMadDog]

Sounds like hunter in for Geary. How is Coffield going

Maybe White. Coach stated he was close.

If Dmac is healthy, he will get the spot

[Whiskey]

In regards Longer, did anyone note the speed at which the ball was moved around the ground yesterday?

And that both of Melbourne’s rucks impacted on the game including hitting the score board?

And ask yourself how and where Longer would impact

With all due respect, Longer wound diminish our ability to get numbers to the contest defensively and would impede on our ability to spread offensively

And, to me, those skills have been the highlight so far in 2019 so we look to improve them, not diminish them at the selection table

Look at the reasons Marshall has been a revelation this season - he compliments our strengths because he is a skilled footballer - with height

Agree. Im surprised he s still in discussion here. In all of his matches he had no impact whatsoever other than some ok taps at times. Absolutely like playing with a man down.

[twirlyhair]

Sounds like hunter in for Geary. How is Coffield going

Hunter is no defender.

[skeptic]

In regards Longer, did anyone note the speed at which the ball was moved around the ground yesterday?

And that both of Melbourne’s rucks impacted on the game including hitting the score board?

And ask yourself how and where Longer would impact

With all due respect, Longer wound diminish our ability to get numbers to the contest defensively and would impede on our ability to spread offensively

And, to me, those skills have been the highlight so far in 2019 so we look to improve them, not diminish them at the selection table

Look at the reasons Marshall has been a revelation this season - he compliments our strengths because he is a skilled footballer - with height

The issue for me personally is I think Marshall needs help... never really been a big fan of Longer, I just concede he's the best we have (to help).

I just think that if we had dropped a few of these games, or start losing with a similar kind of ruck stat differential all of a sudden this looks like more of an issue. Gawn was their best yesterday and Preuss was decent

I guess the answer is endure this year and don't waste games on Longer and see what happens

[To the top]

The 200cm plus mobile asset we have on our List is Carlisle who I recall contesting in the centre square v Melbourne last year

So we hang in until then

Battle gives that flexibility on a relief basis noting his performances absent Carlisle

I would not entertain deploying King to ruck duties until his body matures - so a number of years off yet

As I contributed, our ability to get numbers to the contest to close down defensively despite switching has been impressive due to leg speed

Then to spread offensively

And we need to take those features to another level again to get to where we all trust this List is going to get to - consistent performances resulting in consistent finals appearances leading to a premiership - and more

So every move needs to introduce improvement

[samuraisaint]

The 200cm plus mobile asset we have on our List is Carlisle who I recall contesting in the centre square v Melbourne last year

So we hang in until then

Battle gives that flexibility on a relief basis noting his performances absent Carlisle

I would not entertain deploying King to ruck duties until his body matures - so a number of years off yet

As I contributed, our ability to get numbers to the contest to close down defensively despite switching has been impressive due to leg speed

Then to spread offensively

And we need to take those features to another level again to get to where we all trust this List is going to get to - consistent performances resulting in consistent finals appearances leading to a premiership - and more

So every move needs to introduce improvement

Carlisle is my favourite player and I have conceded that he won't play this season. He missed most of the pre-season and had a back operation in January. The club have said he might be back in August but I really doubt that. And even if he does by some miracle play in August the coaches would have to be absolutely cracked to throw him back into the ruck against Mumford when he's just had a back operation. Asking for trouble. None of Bruce, Hickey or Longer finished the season last year, and Acres was out injured because of his time in the ruck during games.
Longer to play in the ruck to give Marshall a chop out for mine. Clark in for Geary against the Crows though.

[Moods]

I'm not sure how long we can sustain playing just Marshall in the ruck. The kid is doing a great job but he'll get smashed up if he doesn't get some relief. Seasoned ruckman far bigger than him are crashing into him every week. We simply MUST develop a 2nd ruck strategy before this kid gets himself badly injured or starts to be worn down. It's not a sustainable strategy to just ruck to the opposing ruckmen every week. Finding a decent ruckman to assist him has to become a priority. Maybe even mid season draft if we can't use Carlisle this year.??

[Shaggy]

I'm not sure how long we can sustain playing just Marshall in the ruck. The kid is doing a great job but he'll get smashed up if he doesn't get some relief. Seasoned ruckman far bigger than him are crashing into him every week. We simply MUST develop a 2nd ruck strategy before this kid gets himself badly injured or starts to be worn down. It's not a sustainable strategy to just ruck to the opposing ruckmen every week. Finding a decent ruckman to assist him has to become a priority. Maybe even mid season draft if we can't use Carlisle this year.??

Are you serious?

Hickey / Marshall played together as rucks 8 times last year.

Problem was Hickey was an ordinary ruck and Marshall an ordinary KPF.

Collectively they were ordinary.

Marshall does not need a gun support. He simply needs to ruck 70 % of the time. It is not his fault what happens for the other 30%.

[samoht]

Grundy is an even bigger asset than Marshall .... and he has been going it alone.
Marshall will holler for help when he needs it.... and there are enough players to relieve him so he can take a breather during the game (like Acres, Membrey).

We need as many runners as we can muster ... our game has gone to the next level despite injuries to important players because we are running, chasing, and spreading and corralling better (than last year).

In White or McKenzie (both good runners) for Geary.

[saynta]

From afl.com:



St Kilda

State league affiliate: Sandringham (VFL)
This weekend: Sandringham v Williamstown - Sunday, April 21, 2.10pm, Wilson Storage Trevor Barker Beach Oval

Young gun Hunter Clark responded to his omission from the senior side with 28 disposals and a goal in Sandringham's first win of the season.

With a spot in St Kilda's line-up opening up after captain Jarryn Geary's operation for a corked thigh, defender Brandon White collected 26 disposals and seven marks.

Tough onballer Luke Dunstan had 21 and booted two goals in Sandy's 24-point victory, while speedster Nick Hind (20), Nick Coffield (19) and Darragh Joyce (16) also featuring relatively high up on the stats sheet.

Ruckman Billy Longer continued his impressive form since returning from a left hamstring injury, racking up 38 hitouts in the Zebras' 14.8 (92) to 9.14 (68) victory.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Billy is killing it it seems.

[scallopsroe]

Grundy is an even bigger asset than Marshall .... and he has been going it alone.
Marshall will holler for help when he needs it.... and there are enough players to relieve him so he can take a breather during the game (like Acres, Membrey).

We need as many runners as we can muster ... our game has gone to the next level despite injuries to important players because we are running, chasing, and spreading and corralling better (than last year).

In White or McKenzie (both good runners) for Geary.

Grundy has Mason Cox to provide back up. Last week Marshall was off during the third quarter due to a knock in the face. It was in his absence Hawthorn started to get on top and increase their lead.
We need a back up ruckman available on the day, it's insurance. There are many recent examples of where a side was able to use their back up ruck during a game when the key ruck got an injury. Commentators use the Tigers as an example of one ruckman successful policy, however the Tigers have a brilliant mid field to cover.
I use the 2010 GF as an example when Gardiner went off early injured and Kosi took over. He competed well against Jolley.
There was one boundary throw in during the third quarter against Melbourne where Ben Long was the ruckman, he jumped into the back of Gawn, should've been a free kick to Gawn. We're pursuing a highly risky one ruck policy.
Playing Adelaide this week, we could get away with one ruckman. Not so sure against the Giants, West Coast, Collingwood in the coming weeks.

[samoht]

Grundy is an even bigger asset than Marshall .... and he has been going it alone.
Marshall will holler for help when he needs it.... and there are enough players to relieve him so he can take a breather during the game (like Acres, Membrey).

We need as many runners as we can muster ... our game has gone to the next level despite injuries to important players because we are running, chasing, and spreading and corralling better (than last year).

In White or McKenzie (both good runners) for Geary.

Grundy has Mason Cox to provide back up. Last week Marshall was off during the third quarter due to a knock in the face. It was in his absence Hawthorn started to get on top and increase their lead.
We need a back up ruckman available on the day, it's insurance. There are many recent examples of where a side was able to use their back up ruck during a game when the key ruck got an injury. Commentators use the Tigers as an example of one ruckman successful policy, however the Tigers have a brilliant mid field to cover.
I use the 2010 GF as an example when Gardiner went off early injured and Kosi took over. He competed well against Jolley.
There was one boundary throw in during the third quarter against Melbourne where Ben Long was the ruckman, he jumped into the back of Gawn, should've been a free kick to Gawn. We're pursuing a highly risky one ruck policy.
Playing Adelaide this week, we could get away with one ruckman. Not so sure against the Giants, West Coast, Collingwood in the coming weeks.

Mason Cox has only averaged 4 hitouts per game so far this year (20 hitouts over the 5 games)... while Grundy has averaged 38 hitouts per game (190 or so over the 5 games this season).
Grundy is not being cotton-wooled, spared or protected - in fact he's been manfully shouldering the bulk (90% plus) of the ruckwork. Marshall can do the same.
I rate ground level players over ruckmen - the more running players you have on the ground, the better.
That's all the insurance we need (I reckon - and our ruckmen don't even take marks, and they are slow).
When we'll eventually lose to the better teams (it's inevitable), it'll be because of their superior, elite midfields and not their ruckmen. Against Collingwood, West Coast and the giants, we'll need our best ground-level players firing to keep us competitive - it won't be their rucks that'll do the damage.

[remboy]

Grundy has Mason Cox to provide back up. Last week Marshall was off during the third quarter due to a knock in the face. It was in his absence Hawthorn started to get on top and increase their lead.
We need a back up ruckman available on the day, it's insurance. There are many recent examples of where a side was able to use their back up ruck during a game when the key ruck got an injury. Commentators use the Tigers as an example of one ruckman successful policy, however the Tigers have a brilliant mid field to cover.
I use the 2010 GF as an example when Gardiner went off early injured and Kosi took over. He competed well against Jolley.
There was one boundary throw in during the third quarter against Melbourne where Ben Long was the ruckman, he jumped into the back of Gawn, should've been a free kick to Gawn. We're pursuing a highly risky one ruck policy.
Playing Adelaide this week, we could get away with one ruckman. Not so sure against the Giants, West Coast, Collingwood in the coming weeks.

The key to playing two ruckman, though, is that your second ruckman has to be able to play another position. Otherwise he's sitting on the bench for 20 minutes, which stuffs your rotations.
Unfortunately for us I don't think Pierce or Longer can play anywhere else. We could play Longer as first ruck and Marshall as second but I don't think will happen in the short term given how well Marshall is going.

[samoht]

Hopefully West Coast, the Giants and Collingwood make the same mistake that the Demons did and play 2 pure ruckmen (i.e., go in with one less ground level player).

reducing this down to simple terms ...
If teams are silly enough to play 2 ruckmen, hence enter the game with 1 less ground level player (that's what they'd be doing in effect) while we go in with one more ground level player (by playing only 1 ruckman) -- that gives us a 2 ground-level player turnaround advantage. We'd have 2 more ground level players than they would.

With the injuries we've had and the key players missing this year, and our lack of A grade talent in general - that's the advantage we need to remain competitive.

We need to think outside the box.

[kosifantutti]

Hopefully West Coast, the Giants and Collingwood make the same mistake that the Demons did and play 2 ruckmen (i.e., go in with one less ground level player).

reducing this down to simple terms ...
If teams play 2 ruckmen, hence enter the game with 1 less ground level player (that's what they'd be doing in effect) while we go in with one more ground level player (by playing only 1 ruckman) -- that gives us a 2 ground-level player turnaround advantage.

With the injuries we've had and the key players missing this year, that's the advantage we need to remain competitive.

We need to think outside the box.

You're double dipping there.
If we play one ruckman and they play two, we have 21 other players and they have 20 other players. We don't have two extra ground level players.

[samoht]

Hopefully West Coast, the Giants and Collingwood make the same mistake that the Demons did and play 2 ruckmen (i.e., go in with one less ground level player).

reducing this down to simple terms ...
If teams play 2 ruckmen, hence enter the game with 1 less ground level player (that's what they'd be doing in effect) while we go in with one more ground level player (by playing only 1 ruckman) -- that gives us a 2 ground-level player turnaround advantage.

With the injuries we've had and the key players missing this year, that's the advantage we need to remain competitive.

We need to think outside the box.

You're double dipping there.
If we play one ruckman and they play two, we have 21 other players and they have 20 other players. We don't have two extra ground level players.

The 2 player turnaround advantage is if we were to play one ruckman vs the opposing team's 2 ruckmen (where we'd have 1 more ground-level than them - as was the case vs the demons) compared to playing 2 ruckmen to their one .. (where we'd have a 1 ground level player deficit = a 2 ground-level player turnaround, where we'd go from +1 to -1).
In between these 2, if we each play the same number of ruckmen ..we'd have the same number of ground level players = a nil all draw.

[saynta]

Before the season started the dees were being touted as a premiership team.

[on the outer]

I think too you would find if we played an extra ruckman he would not give Marshall a chop out the roles would have to be reversed. That is Longer/Pierce would play 80-90% in the ruck with Marshall playing as a KPF giving them a chop out.

Why because Longer and Pierce can only play ruck.

With that scenario we would lose most of Marshall disposals as I don’t think he is as good as a KPF as he is around the ground in the ruck.

My only worry in the one ruck policy is if the one ruck gets injured, it happened in the JLT and we had Bruce rucking for most of the game with Wilkie providing the chop out (although Acres wasn’t playing).

[samuraisaint]

In regards Longer, did anyone note the speed at which the ball was moved around the ground yesterday?

And that both of Melbourne’s rucks impacted on the game including hitting the score board?

And ask yourself how and where Longer would impact

With all due respect, Longer wound diminish our ability to get numbers to the contest defensively and would impede on our ability to spread offensively

And, to me, those skills have been the highlight so far in 2019 so we look to improve them, not diminish them at the selection table

Look at the reasons Marshall has been a revelation this season - he compliments our strengths because he is a skilled footballer - with height

Then if he's so ill-equipped to play at the senior level, why did we give Longer another contract (honest question)? My next question is; is it a one or two year contract?

[remboy]

Before the season started the dees were being touted as a premiership team.

So that makes us flag favourites

[remboy]

Then if he's so ill-equipped to play at the senior level, why did we give Longer another contract (honest question)? My next question is; is it a one or two year contract?

Because we don't have anyone else. If Longer hadn't got injured he would have been our first ruck in round one. Marshall only got a gig because Longer was injured and Pierce wasn't good enough.

[samuraisaint]

Then if he's so ill-equipped to play at the senior level, why did we give Longer another contract (honest question)? My next question is; is it a one or two year contract?

Because we don't have anyone else. If Longer hadn't got injured he would have been our first ruck in round one. Marshall only got a gig because Longer was injured and Pierce wasn't good enough.

But we did before he was offered the contract - Hickey. Pretty obvious now that Marshall has made the #1 Ruck position at St. Kilda his, but it sounds like Longer is going to be playing for the reserves all year unless we specifically get an injury to Marshall. I wonder if he would've signed the contract in the first place if he knew this would be the case. Mind you I have always been of the opinion that Longer and Hickey's greatest weakness was always injuries. They get back in the side and get injured again.