The pelican really crapped in our nest.

[Linton Lodger]

I think the only way you can judge whether or not the decision to move on a player due to List Management was a good one, is to assess what you got in return.

We effectively got Hickey for Goddard, so that decision turned out to be a poor one. Or has it? We got Pick 39 for Hickey. I'm assuming that slipped to 41 with which we picked up Bytel. What if Bytel turns out to be another Rob Harvey? So we still can't write it off as a poor deal.

We effectively got Acres, Dunstan & Savage for McEvoy (who was nowhere near the player he is now). Three players (an experienced player, a late 1st round pick & hign 2nd round pick) for a ruckman with potential. A smart deal at face value. As it turns out Savage has been a regular player and there are still question marks on Acres & Dunstan. If neither of Acres & Dunstan make it, then that deal is probably a bust. Although I think we'd get something for them, particularly Acres. If one of them becomes a 150-200 game player for us, then its a good deal and if both do then its a great deal.

We effectively got DMac for Stanley. Don't worry about Stanley's form now, let's see how he goes in Finals. I think we did well in that deal.

The fact is that our cap wasn't well managed, that's why we lost Luke Ball and couldn't attract good players. Maybe they should have asked a group of players to take a cut, as Riewoldt suggested recently. Alas, that didn't happen.

My memory (could be wrong) is different.

Stanley trade netted Hugh Goddard.

McEvoy trade Savage & Dunstan (not Acres?)

Goddard #13 & 2 picks for Hickey and 2 picks used on Spencer White & Membrey trade.

Hickey pick from WCE used in DH trade.

Again, my memory only.

I thought it was DMac for Stanley, however you could be right. If that's the case then the deal was a bust. Does anyone know for sure?

I'm certain on what we got for McEvoy. McEvoy & a pick to Hawthorn for Savage and 2 picks. I'm sure we took Acres & Dunstan with those picks.

You're probably right about the Goddard/Hickey exchange. If you are, then the loss of Goddard back then has eventually brought Hannabery and Membrey to the Club. Might turn out a sensational outcome.

[Joffa Burns]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)

Then we should have given him 5 years X $800K

[sunsaint]

oh and just a small PS
Has it not struck anyone the irony of the current forum rules how posters used to be able rip into a club official ( and in Pelchens' case many people did at the time) And given some posts above an indication of how it was.
Yet current rules would get you a holiday and if repeated - a permanent one.

[desertsaint]

Dunstan was picked ahead of Acres - so the McEvoy trade netted Acres and Savage. If the trade hadn’t happened neither would be at the club - Dunstan and McEvoy would be. Not sure if we won that trade but at the time it looked good. A better coach and team has made McEvoy a much better player.

[farquhar]

Very simply, recruiting has been really poor for a decade.

[suss]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)

Are you it’s taking about the same Goddard who recently was made an Essendon life member?

Just checking coz it kinda sounds like you think he was no good after he left us.

[takeaway]

Dunstan was picked ahead of Acres - so the McEvoy trade netted Acres and Savage. If the trade hadn’t happened neither would be at the club - Dunstan and McEvoy would be. Not sure if we won that trade but at the time it looked good. A better coach and team has made McEvoy a much better player.

No, the McEvoy trade was McEvoy, 24 & 59 for Savage, 18 & 19, so we got Savage, Dunstan and Acres. Good trade for both, Hawks needed a ruckman, and Saints have had good service from Savage, & Dunstan and Acres just hitting prime age, and Acres especially could still be anything.
Good trade and I think over time we will be well ahead. Hawks may well have won flags without McEvoy.

I have no problems with the Pelican, came into a difficult situation, compromised drafts, and imo did pretty well.

[sunsaint]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)

Are you it’s taking about the same Goddard who recently was made an Essendon life member?

Just checking coz it kinda sounds like you think he was no good after he left us.

His numbers actually picked up when he switched to EFC - but lets face it he was basically the only senior player there
AS for Life Membership they changed the game tally rule to hand him that honour
I have no doubt to buy his loyalty further down the track...
as he said in the interview - on retirement he feels closer to the bombers than us - how does that sit with you?

[saynta]

His numbers actually picked up when he switched to EFC - but lets face it he was basically the only senior player there
AS for Life Membership they changed the game tally rule to hand him that honour
I have no doubt to buy his loyalty further down the track...
as he said in the interview - on retirement he feels closer to the bombers than us - how does that sit with you?

Just an other reason to despise pelican s***.

[Yorkeys]

Goddard's mark and goal in the GF was a million dollar (for him) rarity and Saints valued it less than some others because he had form - who really wants a miserable superior grump around all the time. Pelchen seemed to have got someone else's idea and tried to implement it without understanding it. However the horrible truth is we get Board/CEO combos after Board/CEO combos that lets foolishness and incompetence run rampant. Hopefully this board and Lethlean can at least pause the spiral. A good head coach or two in succession wouldn't hurt either. Still don't understand sacking of Stan and GT - know why but who drove those decisions and did they improve things or just feed egos. A funny old bird is the pelican, its beak can hold more than... a salary cap; can't swallow it but and is apparently closely related to boobies.

[saynta]

Good clubs don't piss off and then offload their superstars, We have been doing it since Ian Stewart and none of those moves benefited the club on field.. Most were disasters,...for us.

[suss]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)

Are you it’s taking about the same Goddard who recently was made an Essendon life member?

Just checking coz it kinda sounds like you think he was no good after he left us.

His numbers actually picked up when he switched to EFC - but lets face it he was basically the only senior player there
AS for Life Membership they changed the game tally rule to hand him that honour
I have no doubt to buy his loyalty further down the track...
as he said in the interview - on retirement he feels closer to the bombers than us - how does that sit with you?

It just makes me dislike the decision not to give him an extra year even more than I previously did.

I know that we had cap problems but the decision to get rid of Goddard for pick 14 (which we subsequently turned into a bag of potatoes) and cap space was insane.

After we got rid of him we ended up on the bottom of the ladder with a massive amount of cap space. It was and remains one of the more stupid decisions this club has made - and there have been some beauties on that front.

[Enrico_Misso]

BJ always had an inflated opinion of himself and his worth.
(Not saying he wasn't a star but he thought he could walk on water).
He basically priced himself out.
So it is a giant stretch for him to now bleat on that he was forced out.

[saynta]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)

Are you it’s taking about the same Goddard who recently was made an Essendon life member?

Just checking coz it kinda sounds like you think he was no good after he left us.

His numbers actually picked up when he switched to EFC - but lets face it he was basically the only senior player there
AS for Life Membership they changed the game tally rule to hand him that honour
I have no doubt to buy his loyalty further down the track...
as he said in the interview - on retirement he feels closer to the bombers than us - how does that sit with you?

It just makes me dislike the decision not to give him an extra year even more than I previously did.

I know that we had cap problems but the decision to get rid of Goddard for pick 14 (which we subsequently turned into a bag of potatoes) and cap space was insane.

After we got rid of him we ended up on the bottom of the ladder with a massive amount of cap space. It was and remains one of the more stupid decisions this club has made - and there have been some beauties on that front.

Amen to that brother, amen.

[saynta]

BJ always had an inflated opinion of himself and his worth.
(Not saying he wasn't a star but he thought he could walk on water).
He basically priced himself out.
So it is a giant stretch for him to now bleat on that he was forced out.

No mate, I don't think so. He told Sheahan he was far from the top money earners in the club, no where near it were his words. he was on 595 grand and the Saints offered him 20 grand more and a three year contract. drug cheats offered him either 635 grand or 650 grand, can';t remember.

Yeah, he was forced out, alright.

[degruch]

as he said in the interview - on retirement he feels closer to the bombers than us - how does that sit with you?

He feels closer to the Bombers than the Saints to me too...seemed a nice fit. I wonder, if he hadn't belted the captain's pretzels, whether he'd still be there?

[Joffa Burns]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)

Are you it’s taking about the same Goddard who recently was made an Essendon life member?

Just checking coz it kinda sounds like you think he was no good after he left us.

His numbers actually picked up when he switched to EFC - but lets face it he was basically the only senior player there
AS for Life Membership they changed the game tally rule to hand him that honour
I have no doubt to buy his loyalty further down the track...
as he said in the interview - on retirement he feels closer to the bombers than us - how does that sit with you?

It just makes me dislike the decision not to give him an extra year even more than I previously did.

I know that we had cap problems but the decision to get rid of Goddard for pick 14 (which we subsequently turned into a bag of potatoes) and cap space was insane.

After we got rid of him we ended up on the bottom of the ladder with a massive amount of cap space. It was and remains one of the more stupid decisions this club has made - and there have been some beauties on that front.

Not to mention showing loyalty to a guy who gave his all to the club.

Great career, a shame it wasn’t as a one club player.

[Premium89]

I'd never really thought about it like that but an excellent point you posit. In hindsight - our completely sh!tful football department allowed a situation to eventuate that was/in stark contrast to the way in which Geelong managed their cap during the same period with a similar list profile. It was widely known and reported that their best players took way unders to accommodate all of the group staying together. 3 flags within in 5 years later ....

THIS... the “egalitarian” approach has been much talked about at Geelong. Seems a pretty smart move, wonder if it’s still in play these days with the “big 3”?

[Premium89]

Goddard was our best player and we let him walk for pick 13. That was dumb.

Rooey?

[saynta]

I think the only way you can judge whether or not the decision to move on a player due to List Management was a good one, is to assess what you got in return.

We effectively got Hickey for Goddard, so that decision turned out to be a poor one. Or has it? We got Pick 39 for Hickey. I'm assuming that slipped to 41 with which we picked up Bytel. What if Bytel turns out to be another Rob Harvey? So we still can't write it off as a poor deal.

We effectively got Acres, Dunstan & Savage for McEvoy (who was nowhere near the player he is now). Three players (an experienced player, a late 1st round pick & hign 2nd round pick) for a ruckman with potential. A smart deal at face value. As it turns out Savage has been a regular player and there are still question marks on Acres & Dunstan. If neither of Acres & Dunstan make it, then that deal is probably a bust. Although I think we'd get something for them, particularly Acres. If one of them becomes a 150-200 game player for us, then its a good deal and if both do then its a great deal.

We effectively got DMac for Stanley. Don't worry about Stanley's form now, let's see how he goes in Finals. I think we did well in that deal.

The fact is that our cap wasn't well managed, that's why we lost Luke Ball and couldn't attract good players. Maybe they should have asked a group of players to take a cut, as Riewoldt suggested recently. Alas, that didn't happen.

My memory (could be wrong) is different.

Stanley trade netted Hugh Goddard.

McEvoy trade Savage & Dunstan (not Acres?)

Goddard #13 & 2 picks for Hickey and 2 picks used on Spencer White & Membrey trade.

Hickey pick from WCE used in DH trade.

Again, my memory only.

I thought it was DMac for Stanley, however you could be right. If that's the case then the deal was a bust. Does anyone know for sure?

I'm certain on what we got for McEvoy. McEvoy & a pick to Hawthorn for Savage and 2 picks. I'm sure we took Acres & Dunstan with those picks.

You're probably right about the Goddard/Hickey exchange. If you are, then the loss of Goddard back then has eventually brought Hannabery and Membrey to the Club. Might turn out a sensational outcome.

No, it was definately Hugh Goddard.

[Saintmatt]

I'd never really thought about it like that but an excellent point you posit. In hindsight - our completely sh!tful football department allowed a situation to eventuate that was/in stark contrast to the way in which Geelong managed their cap during the same period with a similar list profile. It was widely known and reported that their best players took way unders to accommodate all of the group staying together. 3 flags within in 5 years later ....

THIS... the “egalitarian” approach has been much talked about at Geelong. Seems a pretty smart move, wonder if it’s still in play these days with the “big 3”?

It’s a good question but it doesn’t really matter anymore. After the last CBA ... everyone got an instant 20% pay rise and the cap increased as well. In short ... the money became so big, so quickly for all that really, everyone can fit comfortably inside the cap when the ave player wage jumped from low $200k to mid-$300k. Rarely do players get squeezed out any more.

[Joffa Burns]

Dunstan was picked ahead of Acres - so the McEvoy trade netted Acres and Savage. If the trade hadn’t happened neither would be at the club - Dunstan and McEvoy would be. Not sure if we won that trade but at the time it looked good. A better coach and team has made McEvoy a much better player.

No, the McEvoy trade was McEvoy, 24 & 59 for Savage, 18 & 19, so we got Savage, Dunstan and Acres. Good trade for both, Hawks needed a ruckman, and Saints have had good service from Savage, & Dunstan and Acres just hitting prime age, and Acres especially could still be anything.
Good trade and I think over time we will be well ahead. Hawks may well have won flags without McEvoy.

I have no problems with the Pelican, came into a difficult situation, compromised drafts, and imo did pretty well.

[bigred]

Really they probably should have held on to him.

He said himself that we only offered an extra 20k over his existing salary. We could have gone more. This was guys playing the game. We probably should have kept the band together in hindsight. Offering a four year deal however would have been difficult. I genuinely believe that he did not really want to go.

The whole thing regarding his life membership at Essendon stinks. Granted, he walked into a s*** show and pretty much carried the joint for three of his four years. What a nightmare. He would have come back in a heartbeat.

Damned if we do, damned if we don't. I think our progressive list management suffered dearly under Ross abd even further under the dwarf.

Good clubs generally don't sell the farm to refresh the list.

Cant really discount BJ. They joked about it on the show, but if we had of won there would be a statue of his mark in the 2010 GF outside Linton Street right now. His game that day was just... It was just something special.

[Linton Lodger]

Very simply, recruiting has been really poor for a decade.

Or has it really? If you're talking 2008 - 2018.

We all assume that, but it really comes down to two years, 2009 & 2010. Low draft picks (and a compromised draft in 2010) and lack of salary cap space had something to do with that. The following are the players we brought in during that period, that played regularly at AFL level, still do, or a still on our List:

2008
F Ray
T Lynch (now Adelaide)
R Stanley (now Geelong)
Z Dawson
B Peake

2009
Nobody

2010
Nobody

2011
S Ross
J Newnes
J Webster

2012
D Roberton
T Hickey (now West Coast)
L Pierce

2013
B Longer
J Bruce
J Billings
L Dunstan
B Acres
M Weller (now Richmond)

2014
T Membrey
P McCartin
H Goddard (now Carlton)
D McKenzie
J Lonie
J Sinclair

2015
J Carlisle
J Gresham
B White
B Rice

2016
J Steele
N Brown
B Long
J Battle
E Phillips
R Marshall

2017
L Austin
H Clark
N Coffield
O Clavarino
B Paton
D Langlands

2018
D Hannebery
D Kent
M King
J Bytel
M Parker
N Hind
R Young
C Wilkie

[desertsaint]

Dunstan was picked ahead of Acres - so the McEvoy trade netted Acres and Savage. If the trade hadn’t happened neither would be at the club - Dunstan and McEvoy would be. Not sure if we won that trade but at the time it looked good. A better coach and team has made McEvoy a much better player.

No, the McEvoy trade was McEvoy, 24 & 59 for Savage, 18 & 19, so we got Savage, Dunstan and Acres. Good trade for both, Hawks needed a ruckman, and Saints have had good service from Savage, & Dunstan and Acres just hitting prime age, and Acres especially could still be anything.
Good trade and I think over time we will be well ahead. Hawks may well have won flags without McEvoy.

I have no problems with the Pelican, came into a difficult situation, compromised drafts, and imo did pretty well.

No the trade was McEvoy for Savage & Pick 18.
https://m.afl.com.au/news/2013-10-10/hawks-nab-mcevoy

We did a seperate trade with the Hawks for pick 19 - for 24 & 59. It was not part of the same package.

So if we had not traded McEvoy we would drafted Dunstan with pick 19, not Acres.

I guess we could debate that if one trade hadn’t happened the other would have fallen through, but officially they are seperate- not that it really bears debate anyway - we are where we are. I generally agree - both clubs did okay with the trade - but we all expected to have done better than it seems. There is still time.