The pelican really crapped in our nest.

[saynta]

Don't believe me, then have a look at today''s herald sun and mike Sheahans interview with BJ.

The mongrel basically forced him out of the club and later did the same to Dal. He also gifted Big boy McEvoy to his one true love, Hawthorn.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

I think the Pelican had good intentions but he tried to be way too clever to rejuvenate the Saints list and it really didn't work out at all. He did have the backing of Alan Jean's who admired him.

Thank god we now have Lethers in charge.

[SaintPav]

Same old, same old if you ask me.

[Crossy66]

Bigger issue was bottoming out in years with a compromised draft. No ability to deviate from the hawks blueprint .

[saintsRrising]

I think the Pelican had good intentions but he tried to be way too clever to rejuvenate the Saints list and it really didn't work out at all. He did have the backing of Alan Jean's who admired him.

Thank god we now have Lethers in charge.

Yeh Lethers wouldn't overule our head recruiter on who to take would he? Or trade in a player due to connections....

Thank god he wouldn't do such things. I just hope both calls pay off.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

1) How do you know he overruled our head recruiter?
Evidence and facts please.
2) So what if he traded in a player with connections?
This is operations normal in all areas of AFL footy on/off field. Very common actually. Just like the real world.

[Wayne42]

Here is a quote from the Pelican re The Saints Salary cap position when he joined the club.

“To give you an idea, in 2012 the cap had ballooned to such a position that 63 percent of the total cap was being spent on 10 players.

“That meant the other 34 players were basically one third of the cap space. That’s unheard of.”

Pelchen also said the cap situation played a factor in Brendon Goddard and Nick Dal Santo entering free agency.

Read the Pelican's 2019 List Rankings here.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/eve ... 50y21.html

[saynta]

Here is a quote from the Pelican re The Saints Salary cap position when he joined the club.

“To give you an idea, in 2012 the cap had ballooned to such a position that 63 percent of the total cap was being spent on 10 players.

“That meant the other 34 players were basically one third of the cap space. That’s unheard of.”

Pelchen also said the cap situation played a factor in Brendon Goddard and Nick Dal Santo entering free agency.

Read the Pelican's 2019 List Rankings here.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/eve ... 50y21.html

No thanks. I have no interest in reading anything that clown has to say.

I guess you didn't watch Goddard on"' Open Mike''.

[ace]

Here is a quote from the Pelican re The Saints Salary cap position when he joined the club.

“To give you an idea, in 2012 the cap had ballooned to such a position that 63 percent of the total cap was being spent on 10 players.

“That meant the other 34 players were basically one third of the cap space. That’s unheard of.”

Pelchen also said the cap situation played a factor in Brendon Goddard and Nick Dal Santo entering free agency.

Read the Pelican's 2019 List Rankings here.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/eve ... 50y21.html

The greed of those 10 players and their agents cost the Saints at least two premierships.
Premierships ripe for the taking if they had left room for a couple of quality players to be imported.
They got their money but no glory.

[saintsRrising]

1) How do you know he overruled our head recruiter?
Evidence and facts please.
.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/11/21/ ... r-mcclure/

“I think it’s Chris Liberatore, who is their national recruiting boss, really likes Rozee, and Simon Lethlean, who is their head of football, really likes King.


PS: Please reply in kind when other posters ask you to do the same.

[sunsaint]

No thanks. I have no interest in reading anything that clown has to say.

I guess you didn't watch Goddard on"' Open Mike''.

Well I did
And what he said only confirmed few points I thought true
Goddard did not have a problem with Watters as coach
And it was definitely about the money - He wanted a longer contract at more money than the club was willing to offer
I have no problem with a player considering options for contracts that they think they are worth at both the club they are with and any outside offers. But from stkildas point of view from his zenith in 09-10 all his stats were heading south.
As a free agent Goddard held all the cards, he had a choice, and he made it.

[hayes66]

The whole Ross Lyon period and post Lyon has been a very difficult one for the club.
The way I view it is The Saints had a premiership list/side built by Thomas, Rendell and Bevo.
Unfortunately the board at the time believed Thomas, while he helped build a great list and playing culture, was not a good enough coach to win the club a flag.
They could see a flag slipping away.
They made a decision to find a coach who could take this list to a premiership.
Lyon is appointed and that was his brief. Win the flag. This was at odds with the recruiting staff who whilst acknowledging that the time was now that the club also needed to have one eye on the future.
We only have to read that article “When Ross was boss.” to come to that conclusion.
The premiership didn’t come. Ross, recruiters go and the club decides let’s build a new list.
Pelchen comes in with this charter.
So, he has a plan and wants picks.
All fine so far. The problem his plan which worked at Hawthorn does not factor in the compromised drafts plus the proceeding drafts were not of high quality.
Consequently Pelchen’s plan fails.
Bain’s, possibly sees this, and departs for a promotion.
Trout and Pelchen are sacked.
A extremely unfortunate situation for all except maybe Bain’s.

[saintspremiers]

Half of Happy Team’s list comes from Picks beyond 30.

Players like Worpedo, Sicily and Pupopulu weren’t anywhere near the top.

It’s largely our failure to nail draft picks and develop them that’s the issue more so than ditching the stars.

[lewdogs]

There would have been better ways to re-jig the list than forcing Goddard and Dal out. We should have moved on some of the other guys on inflated contracts. Goddard was our best player and we let him walk for pick 13. That was dumb.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

1) How do you know he overruled our head recruiter?
Evidence and facts please.
.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/11/21/ ... r-mcclure/

“I think it’s Chris Liberatore, who is their national recruiting boss, really likes Rozee, and Simon Lethlean, who is their head of football, really likes King.


PS: Please reply in kind when other posters ask you to do the same.

And? Is that it? Are you serious? Where did he overrule anyone or make the decision on his own?
Sam McClure. Lol

Everyone in recruitment at the Saints "really liked" King along with a number of othed players like Rozee.

[saynta]

No thanks. I have no interest in reading anything that clown has to say.

I guess you didn't watch Goddard on"' Open Mike''.

Well I did
And what he said only confirmed few points I thought true
Goddard did not have a problem with Watters as coach
And it was definitely about the money - He wanted a longer contract at more money than the club was willing to offer
I have no problem with a player considering options for contracts that they think they are worth at both the club they are with and any outside offers. But from stkildas point of view from his zenith in 09-10 all his stats were heading south.
As a free agent Goddard held all the cards, he had a choice, and he made it.

He wanted a 4 year contract which the druggies were offering him . saints only three. he said that was the deciding factor and it wasn't about money. Sure the dons offered him more money but not that much more.
pelican s*** wanted the draft picks.

[derby Street]

Half of Happy Team’s list comes from Picks beyond 30.

Players like Worpedo, Sicily and Pupopulu weren’t anywhere near the top.

It’s largely our failure to nail draft picks and develop them that’s the issue more so than ditching the stars.

I believe our inability to develop players is the major problem. Have any young ones that have left us (delisted or traded) suddenly come along in leaps and bounds?
Tom Lynch?

[mad saint guy]

There would have been better ways to re-jig the list than forcing Goddard and Dal out. We should have moved on some of the other guys on inflated contracts. Goddard was our best player and we let him walk for pick 13. That was dumb.

100% this.

Clint Jones, Sam Gilbert, Adam Schneider and James Gwilt should have been the ones moved on after 2012 (along with Jason Gram, who was moved on for personal issues). That would have freed up more than enough cap space to hold onto our genuine stars.

Pelchen really did s*** the bed at St Kilda. He forced a rebuild during a period where the draft was incredibly shallow due to the concessions given to GC and GWS, and pushed out highly skillful leaders with lots of good footy left in them for mediocre compensation.

We have played free agency worse than any other club. We lose Goddard for pick 13 and completely blow that pick in pointless trades while Melbourne let Frawley walk because they get pick 3 in return which they use on Angus Brayshaw.

[degruch]

We have played free agency worse than any other club. We lose Goddard for pick 13 and completely blow that pick in pointless trades while Melbourne let Frawley walk because they get pick 3 in return which they use on Angus Brayshaw.

You'd have to bring that one up with the AFL, nothing to do with the club.

[Linton Lodger]

I think the only way you can judge whether or not the decision to move on a player due to List Management was a good one, is to assess what you got in return.

We effectively got Hickey for Goddard, so that decision turned out to be a poor one. Or has it? We got Pick 39 for Hickey. I'm assuming that slipped to 41 with which we picked up Bytel. What if Bytel turns out to be another Rob Harvey? So we still can't write it off as a poor deal.

We effectively got Acres, Dunstan & Savage for McEvoy (who was nowhere near the player he is now). Three players (an experienced player, a late 1st round pick & hign 2nd round pick) for a ruckman with potential. A smart deal at face value. As it turns out Savage has been a regular player and there are still question marks on Acres & Dunstan. If neither of Acres & Dunstan make it, then that deal is probably a bust. Although I think we'd get something for them, particularly Acres. If one of them becomes a 150-200 game player for us, then its a good deal and if both do then its a great deal.

We effectively got DMac for Stanley. Don't worry about Stanley's form now, let's see how he goes in Finals. I think we did well in that deal.

The fact is that our cap wasn't well managed, that's why we lost Luke Ball and couldn't attract good players. Maybe they should have asked a group of players to take a cut, as Riewoldt suggested recently. Alas, that didn't happen.

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

We overpaid our bevy of AA and A grade players.

Today, we can't find enough to pay big bucks to!

[Joffa Burns]

I think the only way you can judge whether or not the decision to move on a player due to List Management was a good one, is to assess what you got in return.

We effectively got Hickey for Goddard, so that decision turned out to be a poor one. Or has it? We got Pick 39 for Hickey. I'm assuming that slipped to 41 with which we picked up Bytel. What if Bytel turns out to be another Rob Harvey? So we still can't write it off as a poor deal.

We effectively got Acres, Dunstan & Savage for McEvoy (who was nowhere near the player he is now). Three players (an experienced player, a late 1st round pick & hign 2nd round pick) for a ruckman with potential. A smart deal at face value. As it turns out Savage has been a regular player and there are still question marks on Acres & Dunstan. If neither of Acres & Dunstan make it, then that deal is probably a bust. Although I think we'd get something for them, particularly Acres. If one of them becomes a 150-200 game player for us, then its a good deal and if both do then its a great deal.

We effectively got DMac for Stanley. Don't worry about Stanley's form now, let's see how he goes in Finals. I think we did well in that deal.

The fact is that our cap wasn't well managed, that's why we lost Luke Ball and couldn't attract good players. Maybe they should have asked a group of players to take a cut, as Riewoldt suggested recently. Alas, that didn't happen.

My memory (could be wrong) is different.

Stanley trade netted Hugh Goddard.

McEvoy trade Savage & Dunstan (not Acres?)

Goddard #13 & 2 picks for Hickey and 2 picks used on Spencer White & Membrey trade.

Hickey pick from WCE used in DH trade.

Again, my memory only.

[Joffa Burns]

We overpaid our bevy of AA and A grade players.

Today, we can't find enough to pay big bucks to!

Correct tedrheodorelogan2018, so we overpay and give excessive contract tenure to a declining superstar from The Swans & a perennial fringe player from Melbourne.

The positive is the picks given for the players seemed about right, the concern is the length of contract with Hannebery reported 4-5 year deal & Kent reported 3 years.

God help us if Kent is a best 22 in 3 years time and Hannebery best 22 in 5 years time.

In summary I agree with you we are overpaying due to our lack of star power.

[Saintmatt]

Here is a quote from the Pelican re The Saints Salary cap position when he joined the club.

“To give you an idea, in 2012 the cap had ballooned to such a position that 63 percent of the total cap was being spent on 10 players.

“That meant the other 34 players were basically one third of the cap space. That’s unheard of.”

Pelchen also said the cap situation played a factor in Brendon Goddard and Nick Dal Santo entering free agency.

Read the Pelican's 2019 List Rankings here.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/eve ... 50y21.html

The greed of those 10 players and their agents cost the Saints at least two premierships.
Premierships ripe for the taking if they had left room for a couple of quality players to be imported.
They got their money but no glory.

I'd never really thought about it like that but an excellent point you posit. In hindsight - our completely sh!tful football department allowed a situation to eventuate that was/in stark contrast to the way in which Geelong managed their cap during the same period with a similar list profile. It was widely known and reported that their best players took way unders to accommodate all of the group staying together. 3 flags within in 5 years later ...

Perhaps the way history should judge Pelchen was that he tried to get a bit/very cute in re-balancing our list in the way he'd done it at Hawthorn (only that he played a part in their re-build during uncompromised drafts etc). He's an easy target to pot on here but he was largely dealing with a problem he'd inherited from a disgracefully mismanaged football department and in the end, he was just the messenger.

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Quite frankly, that level of mismanagement makes me much more sick in the guts than Butters revelations that he was on the gear during his presidency.

[sunsaint]

As much as Goddard bleats about wanting a reasonable offer - there was literally no space left in the cap to offer him close to what he wanted; let along something commensurate with his experience and performance. the 63% of cap space on 10 payers is damning on those before Pelchen; not in and of Pelchen himself.

Agreed - and while I get people thinking the club "owed" him - the fact since his peak in 09-10 all of his stats were heading south. But yet he still wanted what HE thought he was worth based on that period.
I have no problem with the choice he made - in fact it was the right choice.
We were heading for a rebuild and the Bombers just wanted icing on the cake to push for a premiership ( although it showed a massive naivety on his behalf in not foreseeing the ASADA holiday for the essendon players looming ahead)