GT Fears for Saints' Future

[To the top]

The Saints have a long history financially - from Fox and his influence with Creditors and the bankers of the time which survived the Club

Then to the reconciliation of the footy Club and the Social Club

And the history has continued since inckuding because of Docklands

With debt, it is not the debt but what assets that debt is invested into and the performance of those assets including the servicing of that debt

So instead of just referring to the debt the Club has you need to expand the analysis

What is the debt invested into?

What is the trading performance of the components that form the Club, starting with the on-field business model because first and foremost the Club exists to put a side (hopefully successful) into the park in the AFL competition

Then you look at the other areas of revenue

And, of course, the projected performance so forward Budgets

That said the most beneficial time to repay debt is when interest rates are low because more of your repayment is being applied to principal

$12 Million sounds a lot (and I am a believer that footy clubs per se can not sustain debt because the payment of interest is inconsistent with where the revenue should be directed being the side on the park - although we now have a Salary Cap as a known) but what is the investment into the infrastructure and fixtures and fittings at Moorabbin for example

I have not seen the Balance Sheet and Trading Statements of the entity which houses the side we watch

But I would assume the AFL because of their requirements including to broadcasters would be looking at the P&L

[To the top]

The Saints have a long history financially - from Fox and his influence with Creditors and the bankers of the time which survived the Club

Then to the reconciliation of the footy Club and the Social Club

And the history has continued since inckuding because of Docklands

With debt, it is not the debt but what assets that debt is invested into and the performance of those assets including the servicing of that debt

So instead of just referring to the debt the Club has you need to expand the analysis

What is the debt invested into?

What is the trading performance of the components that form the Club, starting with the on-field business model because first and foremost the Club exists to put a side (hopefully successful) into the park in the AFL competition

Then you look at the other areas of revenue

And, of course, the projected performance so forward Budgets

That said the most beneficial time to repay debt is when interest rates are low because more of your repayment is being applied to principal

$12 Million sounds a lot (and I am a believer that footy clubs per se can not sustain debt because the payment of interest is inconsistent with where the revenue should be directed being the side on the park - although we now have a Salary Cap as a known) but what is the investment into the infrastructure and fixtures and fittings at Moorabbin for example

I have not seen the Balance Sheet and Trading Statements of the entity which houses the side we watch

But I would assume the AFL because of their requirements including to broadcasters would be looking at the P&L

[GilsAuPair]

GT just has relevance deprivation.
Yesterday's man.

We are in great hands with Finno, Richo and Lethers.

Finno is like Moses.
Richo is like Caleb.
Lethers is like Joshua.

The promised land is within reach and we just need to have faith in these three heroic men of god leading us from the wilderness and desert to the land of milk and honey.

[BringBackMadDog]

Come out and beat Essendon and this talk disappears

Have hanners come on and uplift the team from round 5 and this talk disappears

Have King come in and show the potential of a future gun and this talk disappears

Footy is fundamentally a week by week proposition - you live and die by your performance

Cods wallop. A couple of wins will not make our $12 Mill debt disappear. What will it take some of our supporters to wake up?

No, what will make our debt disappear is if our supporters grew a spine and started buying memberships, and turning up to our games. Even in Richmond and Carltons darkest days they still drew huge crowds and membership numbers. Even in 2009 and 10 we never got over 40K members yet we have a huge number of non member supporters

[guitars4]

I really don't care what GT thinks but as a fan who love's & has followed the Saints all my life I don't want them to be the next Fitzroy. The way we are going financially & on the park we are in big trouble of a merger or eviction in the next 5 years if we don't lift our game on & off the field IMO

[stonecold]

Old 'Putty-Nose' should just shut the f*** up really, he's had his time, had the list to win the flag and didn't!!!!!

hahaha !!!
that's sharp humour, like a scalpel, or even a "Lazar"

Yeah!!!!!

[Linton Lodger]

Sounds like a ticket is brewing in anticipation of a poor year. They're going a bit early. Who says that Bassat won't cull if that occurs.

On Lethlean, c'mon GT get serious. Serious concerns, really? He had an affair!

You could paint Gubby Allen in a more serious light. However, its not necessarily a bad bloke who looks after one of his chargers. Not saying he did the right thing, but. He was a confidant of Leigh Matthews. one of the greatest Coaches of all time.

GT may be right about Melbourne being unable to sustain 10 teams. He also knows that our supporter base, both active and latent, is far bigger then that of The Bulldogs, Melbourne and North Melbourne.

[rodgerfox]

GT may be right about Melbourne being unable to sustain 10 teams. He also knows that our supporter base, both active and latent, is far bigger then that of The Bulldogs, Melbourne and North Melbourne.

We only have about 50k supporters more than each of them.

Given supporter/member ratios are around the 10% Mark across the league - that's basically f*** all.

[rodgerfox]

Come out and beat Essendon and this talk disappears

Have hanners come on and uplift the team from round 5 and this talk disappears

Have King come in and show the potential of a future gun and this talk disappears

Footy is fundamentally a week by week proposition - you live and die by your performance

Cods wallop. A couple of wins will not make our $12 Mill debt disappear. What will it take some of our supporters to wake up?

No, what will make our debt disappear is if our supporters grew a spine and started buying memberships, and turning up to our games. Even in Richmond and Carltons darkest days they still drew huge crowds and membership numbers. Even in 2009 and 10 we never got over 40K members yet we have a huge number of non member supporters

That is precisely, and simply what it comes down to.

We have a small supporter base, that historically just isn't that into the footy (i.e. they have lives).

I'm a case in point. I f****** hate going to the footy, and haven't bought a membership for about 15 years.

Even at our peak recently, we just don't pull crowds. We just don't get supporters giving enough of a s*** to buy a membership.

Both of those have to change in order for the Saints to EVER become a 'big club'.

And that will never, ever happen.

[Cairnsman]

It's like we arguing about economic models. Can't we be happy to just be who we are, who we've always been. It's worked for nearly 1.5 centuries.

Just enjoy.

[mr six o'clock]

The AFL in the broadcast rights deals guarantee 18 teams .
If they are prepared to let us die they will get less money next time .
The AFL are all about money
They are backing the Suns and Gws for truckloads more than us so i reckon we have a future.

[Teflon]

I think he fears for his next paycheck if he doesn't give negative sound bites to the media about the saints

When will people realise.
GT is all about GT - even if he has to publicly criticise the club just so his media persona stays somewhat relevant he’ll do it. To then hide a thinly veiled job application in there under the guise of “if they want my white knight help I’d do it” it’s just so obvious it isn’t funny.

He’s NEVER been welcome in AFL circles because most in the industry know he’s toxic and we are his whipping boy - which other AFL club has come knocking on GTs door since we arsed him?????? Why????

He should’ve stepped aside much earlier in his coach8ng dictatorship but after he got the reins he was never gonna do that.....to many free lunches and ultimately again “his club” he loves so much paid the price.

[Shaggy]

I think he fears for his next paycheck if he doesn't give negative sound bites to the media about the saints

When will people realise.
GT is all about GT - even if he has to publicly criticise the club just so his media persona stays somewhat relevant he’ll do it. To then hide a thinly veiled job application in there under the guise of “if they want my white knight help I’d do it” it’s just so obvious it isn’t funny.

He’s NEVER been welcome in AFL circles because most in the industry know he’s toxic and we are his whipping boy - which other AFL club has come knocking on GTs door since we arsed him?????? Why????

He should’ve stepped aside much earlier in his coach8ng dictatorship but after he got the reins he was never gonna do that.....to many free lunches and ultimately again “his club” he loves so much paid the price.

Good to see GT getting you excited again. Richo does not move you the same.

I do love GT and think most of what he says makes alot of sense.

[Aussie Jonestown]

I do love GT and think most of what he says makes alot of sense.

[media]https://www.sen.com.au/news/2019/03/27/ ... fl-future/[/media]

"If you did a straw poll on which club tends to make the most outrageous mistakes, I think St Kilda would be regarded by most to be top of the tree.

Thomas also questioned the Saints' decision to appoint administrators Simon Lethlean and Graeme Allan.

Former AFL operations manager Lethlean was hired to head up St Kilda's football department after resigning from the governing body because of "inappropriate relationships with two younger women who work in the AFL industry".

"Two of the people that are seemingly in the most control at St Kilda have had some quite serious allegations levelled against them at AFL and then (have) been booted out of there or had been suspended or whatever and now they're running (the) St Kilda Footy Club.

[SAINT-LEE]

Come out and beat Essendon and this talk disappears

Have hanners come on and uplift the team from round 5 and this talk disappears

Have King come in and show the potential of a future gun and this talk disappears

Footy is fundamentally a week by week proposition - you live and die by your performance

Cods wallop. A couple of wins will not make our $12 Mill debt disappear. What will it take some of our supporters to wake up?

No, what will make our debt disappear is if our supporters grew a spine and started buying memberships, and turning up to our games. Even in Richmond and Carltons darkest days they still drew huge crowds and membership numbers. Even in 2009 and 10 we never got over 40K members yet we have a huge number of non member supporters

That is precisely, and simply what it comes down to.

We have a small supporter base, that historically just isn't that into the footy (i.e. they have lives).

I'm a case in point. I f****** hate going to the footy, and haven't bought a membership for about 15 years.

Even at our peak recently, we just don't pull crowds. We just don't get supporters giving enough of a s*** to buy a membership.

Both of those have to change in order for the Saints to EVER become a 'big club'.

And that will never, ever happen.

You don't do the minimum and buy a lousy membership? It's .60 cents a day. You won't give the club 60 cents a day?
Man...If a person won't support the club they don't belong to the club. Your opinion has zero value FOREVER.

[rodgerfox]

Come out and beat Essendon and this talk disappears

Have hanners come on and uplift the team from round 5 and this talk disappears

Have King come in and show the potential of a future gun and this talk disappears

Footy is fundamentally a week by week proposition - you live and die by your performance

Cods wallop. A couple of wins will not make our $12 Mill debt disappear. What will it take some of our supporters to wake up?

No, what will make our debt disappear is if our supporters grew a spine and started buying memberships, and turning up to our games. Even in Richmond and Carltons darkest days they still drew huge crowds and membership numbers. Even in 2009 and 10 we never got over 40K members yet we have a huge number of non member supporters

That is precisely, and simply what it comes down to.

We have a small supporter base, that historically just isn't that into the footy (i.e. they have lives).

I'm a case in point. I f****** hate going to the footy, and haven't bought a membership for about 15 years.

Even at our peak recently, we just don't pull crowds. We just don't get supporters giving enough of a s*** to buy a membership.

Both of those have to change in order for the Saints to EVER become a 'big club'.

And that will never, ever happen.

You don't do the minimum and buy a lousy membership? It's .60 cents a day. You won't give the club 60 cents a day?
Man...If a person won't support the club they don't belong to the club. Your opinion has zero value FOREVER.

I don't belong to the club.

[bigred]

Should have moved to Tassie years ago.

IF we are lucky, we will relocate.

Otherwise we will be playing in the VFL if at all.

[ListManager]

The AFL in the broadcast rights deals guarantee 18 teams .
If they are prepared to let us die they will get less money next time .
The AFL are all about money
They are backing the Suns and Gws for truckloads more than us so i reckon we have a future.

Mate, are you living under a rock? If we "die" the AFL will bring Tassie in before you can blink. Wake up FFS

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

I'm not sure what is worse, the BS spewed forth by Barret and GT or those that so easily lap it up and froth over it without a thought or proper analysis of what has been said or written.

[barneyboyz]

Should have moved to Tassie years ago.

IF we are lucky, we will relocate.

Otherwise we will be playing in the VFL if at all.

This could be closer to the mark than many would care to believe, and I trust that the comments aren't intended as clickbait? The one thing stopping this atm, and I believe the AFL would be well aware of it, is the fact that any team coming out of Tazzie needs the 100% support of the whole of Tazzie, and cannot rely on being seen to be either from the North or South. Right now there is a divide between the two far greater than the Western Highway between Melbourne and Adelaide or the Hume between Melbourne and Sydney, jeez it's even greater than Bass Strait!

When they can get over these issues Tazzie will have a team, but similar to the discussions regarding our own issues (in this thread) and for the past 150 years, it aint gonna happen any time soon

Ps. I'd rather see us in Tazzie than gone

[Joffa Burns]

Should have moved to Tassie years ago.

IF we are lucky, we will relocate.

Otherwise we will be playing in the VFL if at all.

This could be closer to the mark than many would care to believe, and I trust that the comments aren't intended as clickbait? The one thing stopping this atm, and I believe the AFL would be well aware of it, is the fact that any team coming out of Tazzie needs the 100% support of the whole of Tazzie, and cannot rely on being seen to be either from the North or South. Right now there is a divide between the two far greater than the Western Highway between Melbourne and Adelaide or the Hume between Melbourne and Sydney, jeez it's even greater than Bass Strait!

When they can get over these issues Tazzie will have a team, but similar to the discussions regarding our own issues (in this thread) and for the past 150 years, it aint gonna happen any time soon

Ps. I'd rather see us in Tazzie than gone

What about the compensation requirements of North & Hawthorn as both have deals with Tassie state government.

We really stuffed up getting out of the Tassie deal.
Said it at the time and now. Our support in Tassie was strong and I believe we traded off the Tassie link with so many of our greats originating from the Apple isle.

My understanding is we were so dominant at the dome at that point in time we didn’t want to risk losing games for the cash incentive. Driven by GT and players.

[barneyboyz]

Should have moved to Tassie years ago.

IF we are lucky, we will relocate.

Otherwise we will be playing in the VFL if at all.

This could be closer to the mark than many would care to believe, and I trust that the comments aren't intended as clickbait? The one thing stopping this atm, and I believe the AFL would be well aware of it, is the fact that any team coming out of Tazzie needs the 100% support of the whole of Tazzie, and cannot rely on being seen to be either from the North or South. Right now there is a divide between the two far greater than the Western Highway between Melbourne and Adelaide or the Hume between Melbourne and Sydney, jeez it's even greater than Bass Strait!

When they can get over these issues Tazzie will have a team, but similar to the discussions regarding our own issues (in this thread) and for the past 150 years, it aint gonna happen any time soon

Ps. I'd rather see us in Tazzie than gone

What about the compensation requirements of North & Hawthorn as both have deals with Tassie state government.

We really stuffed up getting out of the Tassie deal.
Said it at the time and now. Our support in Tassie was strong and I believe we traded off the Tassie link with so many of our greats originating from the Apple isle.

My understanding is we were so dominant at the dome at that point in time we didn’t want to risk losing games for the cash incentive. Driven by GT and players.

If the AFL want us there they will make it happen, that's not to say it won't cost a bundle

It was a mistake leaving the place, and just shows another area where we have been poor in our decision making. I believe that many of the poor decisions over many years have been in looking at 'Footy' first, then club second. If not, then this one at least appears to have been.

Clearly we weren't performing (as a team) in Tassie, and the decision was made. Looking back though, and with some hind sight too admittedly, going through the 2007 - 2012 era we would have been near on unbeatable there, which ironically was the same issue in NZ.

The Saints in Tassie needed to be a much longer burn in order to have worked, and hence our club took short term over long term gain (again)

Let's face it, we know already that fans aren't buying memberships, or going to games...we could have built from the Tasmanian support

[Linton Lodger]

If any Club ends up in Tasmania, then North and Gold Coast would be well out in front of any other contender.

St Kilda's home streches from Fitroy Street along the Coast to Frankston. Bugger moving anywhere else, thank god we walked from Tasmania and hopefully the NZ nonsense is done & dusted.

[barneyboyz]

If any Club ends up in Tasmania, then North and Gold Coast would be well out in front of any other contender.

St Kilda's home streches from Fitroy Street along the Coast to Frankston. Bugger moving anywhere else, thank god we walked from Tasmania and hopefully the NZ nonsense is done & dusted.

And you think most of the Saints fans still live along this fringe? Why did we go back to Moorabbin? should have stayed in Seaford. That worked a treat

Through the period when Roo was captain, a link to Tassie would have been most beneficial and probably would have removed any need to be talking of relocation i.e. this club would have had two states supporting them

FWIW, I don't think we should relocate...but if the AFL like it...

[Linton Lodger]

Come out and beat Essendon and this talk disappears

Have hanners come on and uplift the team from round 5 and this talk disappears

Have King come in and show the potential of a future gun and this talk disappears

Footy is fundamentally a week by week proposition - you live and die by your performance

Cods wallop. A couple of wins will not make our $12 Mill debt disappear. What will it take some of our supporters to wake up?

If Saintsational is representative of the entire fan base, its already terminal.

So many people either have no business/financial acumen, or live in la la land.

In the meantime, the club plants PR spinners on here to sell deception and flat out lies.

Sainsational is not representative of the entire fan base. Bigfooty, given its far greater traffic would be more representative. Also, you don't get many women posting here or at Big Footy and many women are supporters. Therefore, you are getting small and skewed samples.

Your assertion about business acumen is based on what? Wouldn't be saying that unless you demonstrated that you have.

You think the Club actually plants PR spinners here? That's a conspiracy theory.